First move deploys but can't attack

Have any bright ideas? Share and discuss them with the community

Moderators: Suggestions Team, Global Moderators

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

And don't forget to search for previously suggested ideas first!

Going first is too much of an edge

Postby Frogmanx82 on Tue May 03, 2011 1:32 pm

Concise description:
  • I propose that the player going first should not be allowed to attack, but deploy only on the first turn.

Specifics/Details:
  • After the player goes first, they would be able to deploy only. No card. In a sense you could look at it like your going last to assault, but you are given the opportunity to at least have some armies on the board to compensate for the likely fewer territories you will have and that you are last to get a card. In a freestyle game there is no first player, so this would not apply to freestyle games.

    The player who goes first gets to choose their spot on the board and deter others from attacking. There is an advantage currently in going first by getting first card, first deployment, first assault. In a two player game the player 2 is often knocked out of a region before they even go. This way the person who assaults first will have to go up against better defended territories. It just evens things out.

    I played Risk this way for many years in two player and team games, its been tested.

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:
  • Two player games would see the most benefit as the player going first would have more armies on the board, but player 2 would be able to cut into their bonus. Right now player two is just behind all the way. I posted in a non form post and saw some silly arguments that this would have to carry all the way through the turn order or that somehow player 2 would have an even bigger advantage. That's just not the case.
User avatar
Major Frogmanx82
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:52 pm
Medals: 22
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Fog of War Achievement (2) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (3) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (4)

Re: Going first is too much of an edge

Postby Funkyterrance on Tue May 03, 2011 1:58 pm

I agree with this to some extent. Some setting are more apt to have an early advantage than others and certain maps as well. For instance, I have always thought that king of the mountains was almost always determined in a 1v1 by who goes first. I love this map but stopped playing it because of this aspect. If there is a way to make first turn advantage go down, I am all for it. My thoughts have always been that neutrals strategically placed would be a good solution to this problem.
User avatar
Colonel Funkyterrance
 
Posts: 1924
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:52 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Medals: 22
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (3) General Contribution (1)

Re: Going first is too much of an edge

Postby TheFissk on Tue May 03, 2011 5:20 pm

i don't know if that would even the playing field because the 2nd player now has the advantage of going first
User avatar
Private 1st Class TheFissk
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 12:55 pm
Medals: 5
Standard Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Contribution (2)

Re: Going first is too much of an edge

Postby squishyg on Tue May 03, 2011 5:30 pm

Try playing escalating. Most players deploy, but don't attack on their first turn. This issue you're having is more problematic on smaller games with only 2 players. Experiment and see if a different setting works for you.

At the end of the day though, someone gets to go first.

I'm not a fan of imposing unnecessary site rules on players. If you don't like a particular setting, don't play it.
Image
Visit CC on Facebook and Twitter!
Robinette wrote:
Kaskavel wrote:Seriously. Who is the female conqueror of CC?

Depends on what metric you use...
The coolest is squishyg
User avatar
Captain squishyg
 
Posts: 3148
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:05 pm
Medals: 42
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (4)
General Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (1) General Contribution (4)

Re: Going first is too much of an edge

Postby stahrgazer on Tue May 03, 2011 6:40 pm

Frogmanx82 wrote:The person who goes first should be allowed to deploy only and not attack. This would especially make two player games more fair but it would be more fair for any game. It would seem simple thing.


No. That gives player 2 even more of an advantage, because with "assault odds" he's more likely to remove a larger number of troops in addition to taking a region.

As it is, your chance of going first is 50-50, which can be an advantage especially on some maps. On other maps, it's not as big of a deal, and spoils luck can change that advantage anyway.
Image
User avatar
Captain stahrgazer
 
Posts: 1362
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 11:59 am
Location: Figment of the Imagination...
Medals: 52
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (4) Clan Achievement (6) Tournament Contribution (1)
General Contribution (7)

Re: Going first is too much of an edge

Postby Frogmanx82 on Tue May 03, 2011 11:26 pm

stahrgazer your logic is terrible. If I go last to assault but have more armies on the board that is more fair, no two ways about it, on any game, with any number of players, but especially in a two player game. There is really no reason not to institute this as a standard rule. Its not about a setting. This suggestion would make going first less of an advantage and assaulting last less of a disadvantage. We would have better games, especially in two player.
User avatar
Major Frogmanx82
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:52 pm
Medals: 22
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Fog of War Achievement (2) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (3) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (4)

Re: Going first is too much of an edge

Postby stahrgazer on Tue May 03, 2011 11:30 pm

Frogmanx82 wrote:stahrgazer your logic is terrible. If I go last to assault but have more armies on the board that is more fair, no two ways about it, on any game, with any number of players, but especially in a two player game. There is really no reason not to institute this as a standard rule. Its not about a setting. This suggestion would make going first less of an advantage and assaulting last less of a disadvantage. We would have better games, especially in two player.


My logic is not terrible.

It would make going first a detriment, and going second even more of a benefit than going first currently is.

Check assaulter's odds.
Image
User avatar
Captain stahrgazer
 
Posts: 1362
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 11:59 am
Location: Figment of the Imagination...
Medals: 52
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (4) Clan Achievement (6) Tournament Contribution (1)
General Contribution (7)

Re: Going first is too much of an edge

Postby spiesr on Wed May 04, 2011 12:20 am

Going first can present some advantages depending on the situation. However, there have been better suggestions on how to remedy this. Here is a partial list:
First Turn Troops Calculated on Game Initialisation
Eliminate first-turn bonuses
Fair play Troop allocation at start of game
No continent bonus the first turn
These suggestions are for the most part better than this one. But, they have been rejected. So explain how this idea is somehow better than those...
User avatar
Lieutenant spiesr
Suggestions Moderator
Suggestions Moderator
 
Posts: 2755
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 10:52 am
Location: South Dakota
Medals: 23
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (3) General Achievement (5) General Contribution (2)

Re: Going first is too much of an edge

Postby TheForgivenOne on Wed May 04, 2011 12:44 am

You are also supposed to follow the form we gave you. It helps us, as suggestions mods, and other users out.

[Delete Me]
PLACE THE NAME OF THE SUGGESTION IN THE SUBJECT LINE!

Things to remember when posting a new suggestion are that the dice are random, and that lots of analysis has been done on them both internally and public by community members. Also, please take time to search for previous similar suggestions and, if possible, to check current and archived threads before posting something "new". Delete the xxxxxxx, and substitute your text.

Any questions, contact one of the Suggestions Moderators.
[/Delete Me]


Concise description:
  • xxxxxxx

Specifics/Details:
  • xxxxxxx

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:
  • xxxxxxx

We didn't just put it there for you to look at it all pretty like. You're supposed to use it
Image
User avatar
Lieutenant TheForgivenOne
 
Posts: 5154
Joined: Fri May 15, 2009 8:27 pm
Location: Lost somewhere in the snow. HELP ME
Medals: 82
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (3)
Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (4) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Beta Map Achievement (1) Battle Royale Achievement (2) Ratings Achievement (3) General Achievement (14) Clan Achievement (6)
General Contribution (11)

Re: Going first is too much of an edge

Postby greenoaks on Wed May 04, 2011 1:25 am

Frogmanx82 wrote:The person who goes first should be allowed to deploy only and not attack. This would especially make two player games more fair but it would be more fair for any game. It would seem simple thing.

this would give the person going 2nd an advantage but we could reduce that by insisting they must also deploy and not attack.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class greenoaks
Tech Contributor
Tech Contributor
 
Posts: 9997
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:47 am
Medals: 138
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (3)
Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (4) Freestyle Achievement (4) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (4)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (30) General Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (14)
Tournament Contribution (34) General Contribution (4)

Re: Going first is too much of an edge

Postby TheFissk on Wed May 04, 2011 7:28 am

but then the 1st player is going first AGAIN. plus you get some sort of wierd half manual deployment, so if that is what you want play manual
User avatar
Private 1st Class TheFissk
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 12:55 pm
Medals: 5
Standard Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Contribution (2)

Re: Going first is too much of an edge

Postby greenoaks on Wed May 04, 2011 7:55 am

TheFissk wrote:but then the 1st player is going first AGAIN. plus you get some sort of wierd half manual deployment, so if that is what you want play manual

then we'll just have to insist the person going 3rd also deploys and doesn't attack
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class greenoaks
Tech Contributor
Tech Contributor
 
Posts: 9997
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:47 am
Medals: 138
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (3)
Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (4) Freestyle Achievement (4) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (4)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (30) General Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (14)
Tournament Contribution (34) General Contribution (4)

Re: Going first is too much of an edge

Postby thebest712 on Wed May 04, 2011 12:05 pm

stahrgazer wrote:
Frogmanx82 wrote:stahrgazer your logic is terrible. If I go last to assault but have more armies on the board that is more fair, no two ways about it, on any game, with any number of players, but especially in a two player game. There is really no reason not to institute this as a standard rule. Its not about a setting. This suggestion would make going first less of an advantage and assaulting last less of a disadvantage. We would have better games, especially in two player.


My logic is not terrible.

It would make going first a detriment, and going second even more of a benefit than going first currently is.

Check assaulter's odds.

it is terrible.

and I like the idea =D> =D> =D>
User avatar
Major thebest712
 
Posts: 411
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 3:19 am
Medals: 68
Conqueror Achievement (1) Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2)
Terminator Achievement (3) Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (4) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (15) General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (3)

Re: Going first is too much of an edge

Postby jrh_cardinal on Wed May 04, 2011 1:54 pm

Would be terrible for freestyle, and if I had first turn I would miss on purpose so I got twice as many armies to deploy AND attack with in the second round
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class jrh_cardinal
 
Posts: 2715
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 7:15 pm
Medals: 74
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (7)
General Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (2) Tournament Contribution (30) General Contribution (2)

Re: Going first is too much of an edge

Postby TheFissk on Wed May 04, 2011 5:55 pm

looks like we should just make whoever goes 4th deploy only also.

god this sounds like real life...
i'm not lost just exploring alternate destinations

Optimist invented the airplane, pessimists invented the parachute

I'm to good for victory
User avatar
Private 1st Class TheFissk
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 12:55 pm
Medals: 5
Standard Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Contribution (2)

Next

Return to Suggestions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

Login