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[GP] Automatically Award Spoils Even if a Player Times Out

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Automatically award a spoil to a player that takes a territory:

Never. Timing out to avoid getting a spoil is a valid strategy.
19
22%
Always. Any player that takes a territory in any game type should be awarded a spoil, even if he doesn't click "End Turn."
50
57%
For all games except speed and/or freestyle. It's a key part of the timing in those games and should be preserved.
18
21%
 
Total votes : 87

Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby kuma32478 on Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:11 pm

I fully support this suggestion
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby greenoaks on Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:44 pm

mc05025 wrote:
greenoaks wrote:
mc05025 wrote:yea, when running out of time you do not end the turn. You do not pess end turn and there is no 'end turn' written in the log. The turn is incompleted and the game moves on. So it is correct right now

if my turn hasn't ended how come i can't continue to attack?


There is no rule saying you can attack till you end your turn. You can attack till you press end assaults or run out of time. Thats why you can not attack anymore :D

but there is a rule that states i get a Spoil when my turn has ended. it does not say only if my turn has ended in a particular fashion.
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby Crazyirishman on Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:24 pm

DJ Teflon wrote:Why not, as well, automatic deferred troops if a player times out without having deployed ?


I like this idea. It's the worst when you start you turn, forget about it and lose out on all troops.

Personally, I like the idea if there is the exception giving for speed freestyle.

As a an occasional shitty freestyle player, I feel that it would equal the playing field if I could just attack and not have to worry about ending my turn and get an auto-card, it would for sure make the game easier.
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby trinicardinal on Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:48 pm

I definitely support a spoil being awarded as long as you have successfully conquered/bombarded at least one territory
10:16:35 ‹Ace Rimmer› haven't looked at work in ages
10:42:43 ‹Sackett58› fine, I'll take my panties elsewhere
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby Doc_Brown on Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:20 pm

rdsrds2120 wrote:As a speed freestyle player myself, I echo the concerns voiced by Metsfanmax. I've been contemplating this rule for about a week now and I arrived at the same conclusion that Ace has, which is to not change the rule for freestyle.

BMO


So.... Does this mean the compromise proposal is considered Submitted?

Compromise Proposal:
Automatically award spoils earned in all sequential games. Allow timing out without receiving spoils in freestyle games.
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby Fazeem on Wed May 01, 2013 9:44 pm

trinicardinal wrote:I definitely support a spoil being awarded as long as you have successfully conquered/bombarded at least one territory

I concur
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby greenoaks on Thu May 02, 2013 6:43 am

Doc_Brown wrote:
rdsrds2120 wrote:As a speed freestyle player myself, I echo the concerns voiced by Metsfanmax. I've been contemplating this rule for about a week now and I arrived at the same conclusion that Ace has, which is to not change the rule for freestyle.

BMO


So.... Does this mean the compromise proposal is considered Submitted?

Compromise Proposal:
Automatically award spoils earned in all sequential games. Allow timing out without receiving spoils in freestyle games.

i hope not. 1 rule for all forms of the game means no confusion.
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby chapcrap on Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:08 am

Stickying this for a bit. The majority of players support this.
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby king achilles on Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:09 am

So, if a player will always get a spoil when he conquers a territory, can he freely let his turn run out then or no longer bother clicking on the end turn if he is already content with his move?
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby Seulessliathan on Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:16 am

king achilles wrote:So, if a player will always get a spoil when he conquers a territory, can he freely let his turn run out then or no longer bother clicking on the end turn if he is already content with his move?


Sure, but why would anyone do that? Already possible in no spoils unlimited games, but i think i have never seen it happen, people always end there turn when they are done, so i guess there won´t be any problems about this.
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby Qwert on Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:16 am

then we could have stalemate games, where players will not take territories.
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby codierose on Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:35 am

hate the idea myself you snooze you lose
so will you get a bunch of lazy assed players not ending turns, why would they getting rewarded for not doing so. 8 man esc games could last forever, could potentially have everyone taking 24hrs per turn no thanks. :sick: Already having to deal with deadbeats now you want to reward them.
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby Donelladan on Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:51 am

No codierose. Once you start your turn, if you dont click end turn it finish within one hour. So no 24h to wait.

And as mentioned before, it is already the case in all no spoils game, did you ever see people not finishing their turn?
Only cases I see people not clicking button end turn is nuclear game. So this suggestion will end the very problem of people waiting one hour IMO.

@qwert : I totally dont get it. If you play escalating you want the spoils. If you play flat rate/no spoils/nuclear, you already have stale where nobody take territory. And in anycase I dont see how this suggestion will encourage not taking territory in case of a stale game.
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby RansomReville on Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:56 am

It's simple, if we were playing a board game you couldn't just sit there for an entire day making your friends wait to play. Why should this be okay online? Let's ignore the benefit. Doing this delay's the game unnaturally. If you want the additional spoils you should NOT ATTACK! Just like the actual game is played.
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby pearljamrox2 on Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:14 pm

To all the people using the "If we were sitting around the table playing the board games"argument... I guess that means we should get rid of Fog..since you dont have fog sitting around the table. And freestyle..you cant play freestyle sitting around the table.

But I agree this issue needs to be settled, one way or the other. If I lose power at my house during a turn and I dont get a card that I wanted...that's unfortunate for me. But if that is what happens, then dammit, that becomes a strategy for me in a game where I don't want a card. You can't have it both ways.
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby Fazeem on Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:16 pm

pearljamrox2 wrote:To all the people using the "If we were sitting around the table playing the board games"argument... I guess that means we should get rid of Fog..since you dont have fog sitting around the table. And freestyle..you cant play freestyle sitting around the table.

But I agree this issue needs to be settled, one way or the other. If I lose power at my house during a turn and I dont get a card that I wanted...that's unfortunate for me. But if that is what happens, then dammit, that becomes a strategy for me in a game where I don't want a card. You can't have it both ways.

null point it is a cheap tactic that delays the game whether regular or speed when used as a stratagem and when it is a loss of power or connectivity it is painfull reason to lose. It is a simple and logical solution to close this loop hole and make the game fair for everyone across the board that or get rid of deferred armies for missed turns as it seems that is counter-intuitive if this is not corrected.
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby Chariot of Fire on Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:06 am

RansomReville wrote:It's simple, if we were playing a board game you couldn't just sit there for an entire day making your friends wait to play. Why should this be okay online? Let's ignore the benefit. Doing this delay's the game unnaturally. If you want the additional spoils you should NOT ATTACK! Just like the actual game is played.


You can't really compare the board game to an automated online version of the game. For example, if we were playing the board game and I took a territory but forget to pick up a card before the next player rolled the dice, well that would be my tough luck. I'm sure many of us have been in that position, playing Flat Rate or Esc with friends on a table, and someone at some point has forgotten to take a card. The online version doesn't allow you to 'forget' to win a card if you end your turn, however it does allow you to forget to win a card if you time out. That's about the only parallel that can be drawn between this version and the board game.
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby greenoaks on Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:32 am

Chariot of Fire wrote:
RansomReville wrote:It's simple, if we were playing a board game you couldn't just sit there for an entire day making your friends wait to play. Why should this be okay online? Let's ignore the benefit. Doing this delay's the game unnaturally. If you want the additional spoils you should NOT ATTACK! Just like the actual game is played.


You can't really compare the board game to an automated online version of the game. For example, if we were playing the board game and I took a territory but forget to pick up a card before the next player rolled the dice, well that would be my tough luck. I'm sure many of us have been in that position, playing Flat Rate or Esc with friends on a table, and someone at some point has forgotten to take a card. The online version doesn't allow you to 'forget' to win a card if you end your turn, however it does allow you to forget to win a card if you time out. That's about the only parallel that can be drawn between this version and the board game.

and that is a poor parallel because they are not 'forgetting' to take a card. they are exploiting a loophole.

as agentcom was quick to point out with the Rematch button and Battle Royales, commonsense should prevail. The Rules state "You earn spoils at the end of every turn in which you successfully conquer a region". the rules do not differentiate between a turn ended early by clicking the 'End Turn' button or 60 minutes have expired, if you successfully conquered a territory you are awarded spoils.

everyone who is exploiting the current loophole needs to be warned not to do so. continuing to do so while a fix is developed should result in a forfeit of all points gained.

agentcom has spoken, beware his wrath. :)
Last edited by greenoaks on Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby Chariot of Fire on Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:21 am

and that is a poor parallel because they are not 'forgetting' to take a card. they are exploiting a loophole.


How do you know this? I've seen many occasions where a player has forgotten to end his turn, in just the same manner as a board player has forgotten to take a card. That is why I drew the parallel.

The clock in this game is an integral part of strategy - whether it be one minute speed or one hour standard - and I think people often overlook that. Are the same people who are clamouring for a spoil to be awarded in a nuke game also as keen to see a player receive a card in an esc game (say on 2.1) where he ran out of time trying to do a sweep? That penalty has existed since inception yet no-one has ever made a song and dance about it.

In any war the victor has the choice of whether he takes the spoils or not, so why change that, i.e. leave the option to decline? The game as it currently stands starts on a level playing field in respect of whether to win cards or not. The only inequity is in the start and drop.
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby Fazeem on Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:57 pm

Chariot of Fire wrote:
and that is a poor parallel because they are not 'forgetting' to take a card. they are exploiting a loophole.


How do you know this? I've seen many occasions where a player has forgotten to end his turn, in just the same manner as a board player has forgotten to take a card. That is why I drew the parallel.

The clock in this game is an integral part of strategy - whether it be one minute speed or one hour standard - and I think people often overlook that. Are the same people who are clamouring for a spoil to be awarded in a nuke game also as keen to see a player receive a card in an esc game (say on 2.1) where he ran out of time trying to do a sweep? That penalty has existed since inception yet no-one has ever made a song and dance about it.

In any war the victor has the choice of whether he takes the spoils or not, so why change that, i.e. leave the option to decline? The game as it currently stands starts on a level playing field in respect of whether to win cards or not. The only inequity is in the start and drop.
again I respectfully disagree. first to your question about the player doing the sweep I say yes, They should get a card even if they time out. They are actually making a true progressive move in the game and should be allowed every second of their time with out being penalized for using it. they should not have to worry about not receiving a card and all the players should be playing like that is always a possibility of them getting swept in a turn. Lets look at the improvements this site has made over the board games of similar game play, it is not as easy to cheat or exploit here and this is not just another exploit/ cheap delaying tactic but a true problem for people with sketchy connectivity for whatever reason(Electrical, network equipment, ISP etc.) They are penalized for matters outside their realm of control so a few people can use the exploit as a tactical advantage? Fix this loophole and if people want to be able to decline a spoil make a petition to add that as a option at the end of turn. Lets not continue to have the site be a broken reflection of the old game but rather embrace it and its many improvements as a fairer, more diverse and adventuresome game that evolved from the old skeleton.
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby oradej on Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:25 am

If you're in a Nuclear game where trading will help your opponent(s), I say it's completely fair to forgo your own fortification (which would help you) in order to prevent being forced to Nuke territories that just clears a path for an enemy.
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby rhp 1 on Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:33 pm

I agree with many who make the argument that direct comparisons to this site and the board game in real life are not necessarily valid, at least in some key ways... that said, it's always been my opinion that if you attack/conquer a terit, you have met the requirement to earn (if that's the term we want to use) a card regardless of whether you hit "end turn" (i guess I look @ the end of your turn as being when you actually hit "end turn" OR when your time expires)... I realize, and am aware of all the nuances that are attached to this opinion, but I think the most valid point, is "if you successfully attack and conquer a territory, you receive a spoil" don't know if I actually quoted something that is written down somewhere, or simply took the liberty, but that's my position for what it's worth...

**edit..

lol... from the instructions tab

"You earn spoils at the end of every turn in which you successfully conquer a region"


I was close enough
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby Doc_Brown on Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:07 pm

I agree. The instructions state that you should earn a spoil if you conquer a territory. Clans have ruled that refusing to take a spoil card in clan play is considered cheating. I would just like some consistency on the site, which is why the suggestion has two options:
1) Automatically award a spoil if a territory is conquered (for some or all game types), or
2) Officially state that timing out is a valid strategy and reword the instructions to acknowledge that spoils need not always be awarded.

Personally, I favor option 1, as do 75% of the people that have responded to the poll.
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Colonel Doc_Brown
 
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