[GP/UI]Automatically Award Spoils Even if a Player Times Out

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Automatically award a spoil to a player that takes a territory:

Never. Timing out to avoid getting a spoil is a valid strategy.
19
23%
Always. Any player that takes a territory in any game type should be awarded a spoil, even if he doesn't click "End Turn."
44
54%
For all games except speed and/or freestyle. It's a key part of the timing in those games and should be preserved.
19
23%
 
Total votes : 82

Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby codierose on Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:35 am

hate the idea myself you snooze you lose
so will you get a bunch of lazy assed players not ending turns, why would they getting rewarded for not doing so. 8 man esc games could last forever, could potentially have everyone taking 24hrs per turn no thanks. :sick: Already having to deal with deadbeats now you want to reward them.
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby Donelladan on Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:51 am

No codierose. Once you start your turn, if you dont click end turn it finish within one hour. So no 24h to wait.

And as mentioned before, it is already the case in all no spoils game, did you ever see people not finishing their turn?
Only cases I see people not clicking button end turn is nuclear game. So this suggestion will end the very problem of people waiting one hour IMO.

@qwert : I totally dont get it. If you play escalating you want the spoils. If you play flat rate/no spoils/nuclear, you already have stale where nobody take territory. And in anycase I dont see how this suggestion will encourage not taking territory in case of a stale game.
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby spiesr on Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:20 pm

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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby RansomReville on Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:56 am

It's simple, if we were playing a board game you couldn't just sit there for an entire day making your friends wait to play. Why should this be okay online? Let's ignore the benefit. Doing this delay's the game unnaturally. If you want the additional spoils you should NOT ATTACK! Just like the actual game is played.
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby pearljamrox2 on Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:14 pm

To all the people using the "If we were sitting around the table playing the board games"argument... I guess that means we should get rid of Fog..since you dont have fog sitting around the table. And freestyle..you cant play freestyle sitting around the table.

But I agree this issue needs to be settled, one way or the other. If I lose power at my house during a turn and I dont get a card that I wanted...that's unfortunate for me. But if that is what happens, then dammit, that becomes a strategy for me in a game where I don't want a card. You can't have it both ways.
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby Fazeem on Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:16 pm

pearljamrox2 wrote:To all the people using the "If we were sitting around the table playing the board games"argument... I guess that means we should get rid of Fog..since you dont have fog sitting around the table. And freestyle..you cant play freestyle sitting around the table.

But I agree this issue needs to be settled, one way or the other. If I lose power at my house during a turn and I dont get a card that I wanted...that's unfortunate for me. But if that is what happens, then dammit, that becomes a strategy for me in a game where I don't want a card. You can't have it both ways.

null point it is a cheap tactic that delays the game whether regular or speed when used as a stratagem and when it is a loss of power or connectivity it is painfull reason to lose. It is a simple and logical solution to close this loop hole and make the game fair for everyone across the board that or get rid of deferred armies for missed turns as it seems that is counter-intuitive if this is not corrected.
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby Chariot of Fire on Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:06 am

RansomReville wrote:It's simple, if we were playing a board game you couldn't just sit there for an entire day making your friends wait to play. Why should this be okay online? Let's ignore the benefit. Doing this delay's the game unnaturally. If you want the additional spoils you should NOT ATTACK! Just like the actual game is played.


You can't really compare the board game to an automated online version of the game. For example, if we were playing the board game and I took a territory but forget to pick up a card before the next player rolled the dice, well that would be my tough luck. I'm sure many of us have been in that position, playing Flat Rate or Esc with friends on a table, and someone at some point has forgotten to take a card. The online version doesn't allow you to 'forget' to win a card if you end your turn, however it does allow you to forget to win a card if you time out. That's about the only parallel that can be drawn between this version and the board game.
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby greenoaks on Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:32 am

Chariot of Fire wrote:
RansomReville wrote:It's simple, if we were playing a board game you couldn't just sit there for an entire day making your friends wait to play. Why should this be okay online? Let's ignore the benefit. Doing this delay's the game unnaturally. If you want the additional spoils you should NOT ATTACK! Just like the actual game is played.


You can't really compare the board game to an automated online version of the game. For example, if we were playing the board game and I took a territory but forget to pick up a card before the next player rolled the dice, well that would be my tough luck. I'm sure many of us have been in that position, playing Flat Rate or Esc with friends on a table, and someone at some point has forgotten to take a card. The online version doesn't allow you to 'forget' to win a card if you end your turn, however it does allow you to forget to win a card if you time out. That's about the only parallel that can be drawn between this version and the board game.

and that is a poor parallel because they are not 'forgetting' to take a card. they are exploiting a loophole.

as agentcom was quick to point out with the Rematch button and Battle Royales, commonsense should prevail. The Rules state "You earn spoils at the end of every turn in which you successfully conquer a region". the rules do not differentiate between a turn ended early by clicking the 'End Turn' button or 60 minutes have expired, if you successfully conquered a territory you are awarded spoils.

everyone who is exploiting the current loophole needs to be warned not to do so. continuing to do so while a fix is developed should result in a forfeit of all points gained.

agentcom has spoken, beware his wrath. :)
Last edited by greenoaks on Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby Chariot of Fire on Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:21 am

and that is a poor parallel because they are not 'forgetting' to take a card. they are exploiting a loophole.


How do you know this? I've seen many occasions where a player has forgotten to end his turn, in just the same manner as a board player has forgotten to take a card. That is why I drew the parallel.

The clock in this game is an integral part of strategy - whether it be one minute speed or one hour standard - and I think people often overlook that. Are the same people who are clamouring for a spoil to be awarded in a nuke game also as keen to see a player receive a card in an esc game (say on 2.1) where he ran out of time trying to do a sweep? That penalty has existed since inception yet no-one has ever made a song and dance about it.

In any war the victor has the choice of whether he takes the spoils or not, so why change that, i.e. leave the option to decline? The game as it currently stands starts on a level playing field in respect of whether to win cards or not. The only inequity is in the start and drop.
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby Fazeem on Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:57 pm

Chariot of Fire wrote:
and that is a poor parallel because they are not 'forgetting' to take a card. they are exploiting a loophole.


How do you know this? I've seen many occasions where a player has forgotten to end his turn, in just the same manner as a board player has forgotten to take a card. That is why I drew the parallel.

The clock in this game is an integral part of strategy - whether it be one minute speed or one hour standard - and I think people often overlook that. Are the same people who are clamouring for a spoil to be awarded in a nuke game also as keen to see a player receive a card in an esc game (say on 2.1) where he ran out of time trying to do a sweep? That penalty has existed since inception yet no-one has ever made a song and dance about it.

In any war the victor has the choice of whether he takes the spoils or not, so why change that, i.e. leave the option to decline? The game as it currently stands starts on a level playing field in respect of whether to win cards or not. The only inequity is in the start and drop.
again I respectfully disagree. first to your question about the player doing the sweep I say yes, They should get a card even if they time out. They are actually making a true progressive move in the game and should be allowed every second of their time with out being penalized for using it. they should not have to worry about not receiving a card and all the players should be playing like that is always a possibility of them getting swept in a turn. Lets look at the improvements this site has made over the board games of similar game play, it is not as easy to cheat or exploit here and this is not just another exploit/ cheap delaying tactic but a true problem for people with sketchy connectivity for whatever reason(Electrical, network equipment, ISP etc.) They are penalized for matters outside their realm of control so a few people can use the exploit as a tactical advantage? Fix this loophole and if people want to be able to decline a spoil make a petition to add that as a option at the end of turn. Lets not continue to have the site be a broken reflection of the old game but rather embrace it and its many improvements as a fairer, more diverse and adventuresome game that evolved from the old skeleton.
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby oradej on Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:25 am

If you're in a Nuclear game where trading will help your opponent(s), I say it's completely fair to forgo your own fortification (which would help you) in order to prevent being forced to Nuke territories that just clears a path for an enemy.
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby rhp 1 on Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:33 pm

I agree with many who make the argument that direct comparisons to this site and the board game in real life are not necessarily valid, at least in some key ways... that said, it's always been my opinion that if you attack/conquer a terit, you have met the requirement to earn (if that's the term we want to use) a card regardless of whether you hit "end turn" (i guess I look @ the end of your turn as being when you actually hit "end turn" OR when your time expires)... I realize, and am aware of all the nuances that are attached to this opinion, but I think the most valid point, is "if you successfully attack and conquer a territory, you receive a spoil" don't know if I actually quoted something that is written down somewhere, or simply took the liberty, but that's my position for what it's worth...

**edit..

lol... from the instructions tab

"You earn spoils at the end of every turn in which you successfully conquer a region"


I was close enough
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby Doc_Brown on Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:07 pm

I agree. The instructions state that you should earn a spoil if you conquer a territory. Clans have ruled that refusing to take a spoil card in clan play is considered cheating. I would just like some consistency on the site, which is why the suggestion has two options:
1) Automatically award a spoil if a territory is conquered (for some or all game types), or
2) Officially state that timing out is a valid strategy and reword the instructions to acknowledge that spoils need not always be awarded.

Personally, I favor option 1, as do 75% of the people that have responded to the poll.
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby greenoaks on Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:35 pm

Doc_Brown wrote:I agree. The instructions state that you should earn a spoil if you conquer a territory. Clans have ruled that refusing to take a spoil card in clan play is considered cheating. I would just like some consistency on the site, which is why the suggestion has two options:
1) Automatically award a spoil if a territory is conquered (for some or all game types), or
2) Officially state that timing out is a valid strategy and reword the instructions to acknowledge that spoils need not always be awarded.

Personally, I favor option 1, as do 75% of the people that have responded to the poll.

it would be great if the site implemented this or changed the wording of the rule. one or the other. come on CC, step up and end this debate.
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby codierose on Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:29 pm

Donelladan wrote:Only cases I see people not clicking button end turn is nuclear game. So this suggestion will end the very problem of people waiting one hour IMO.
.


so your issue is with nuke spoils ?
or is the issue your having to wait an hour in some cases "rare i would say" so whats the problem your already having to potentially wait days for a turn what difference does a hour make.
is there any data on this happening widely on every nuke game ?

also needs to be more options on the poll
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby Seulessliathan on Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:44 am

Doc_Brown wrote:I agree. The instructions state that you should earn a spoil if you conquer a territory. Clans have ruled that refusing to take a spoil card in clan play is considered cheating. I would just like some consistency on the site, which is why the suggestion has two options:
1) Automatically award a spoil if a territory is conquered (for some or all game types), or
2) Officially state that timing out is a valid strategy and reword the instructions to acknowledge that spoils need not always be awarded.

Personally, I favor option 1, as do 75% of the people that have responded to the poll.


i agree 100%, and yes, option 1 would be my favourite too

probably it´s possible to code the game that way that you already get a card when you take a terretory, not at the end of your turn.
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby Prince_Tottenham on Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:02 am

Time out shouldn't be strategy thing..

because there are times where you want to finish your turn 15 seconds or 20 seconds before your turn finish, some lags happens to you, it's make you angry a times.

so I'm in agreement with this suggestion.
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby Metsfanmax on Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:59 am

Seulessliathan wrote:
Doc_Brown wrote:I agree. The instructions state that you should earn a spoil if you conquer a territory. Clans have ruled that refusing to take a spoil card in clan play is considered cheating. I would just like some consistency on the site, which is why the suggestion has two options:
1) Automatically award a spoil if a territory is conquered (for some or all game types), or
2) Officially state that timing out is a valid strategy and reword the instructions to acknowledge that spoils need not always be awarded.

Personally, I favor option 1, as do 75% of the people that have responded to the poll.


i agree 100%, and yes, option 1 would be my favourite too

probably it´s possible to code the game that way that you already get a card when you take a terretory, not at the end of your turn.


It's possible, but there are many reasons we don't want people to get a card when they take the territory. It would completely change the nature of spoils games.
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby greenoaks on Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:43 am

Metsfanmax wrote:
Seulessliathan wrote:
Doc_Brown wrote:I agree. The instructions state that you should earn a spoil if you conquer a territory. Clans have ruled that refusing to take a spoil card in clan play is considered cheating. I would just like some consistency on the site, which is why the suggestion has two options:
1) Automatically award a spoil if a territory is conquered (for some or all game types), or
2) Officially state that timing out is a valid strategy and reword the instructions to acknowledge that spoils need not always be awarded.

Personally, I favor option 1, as do 75% of the people that have responded to the poll.


i agree 100%, and yes, option 1 would be my favourite too

probably it´s possible to code the game that way that you already get a card when you take a terretory, not at the end of your turn.


It's possible, but there are many reasons we don't want people to get a card when they take the territory. It would completely change the nature of spoils games.

exactly, spoils games would then match the site's rules.

ps. that was only one reason you've provided
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby Metsfanmax on Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:01 am

greenoaks wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
Seulessliathan wrote:
Doc_Brown wrote:I agree. The instructions state that you should earn a spoil if you conquer a territory. Clans have ruled that refusing to take a spoil card in clan play is considered cheating. I would just like some consistency on the site, which is why the suggestion has two options:
1) Automatically award a spoil if a territory is conquered (for some or all game types), or
2) Officially state that timing out is a valid strategy and reword the instructions to acknowledge that spoils need not always be awarded.

Personally, I favor option 1, as do 75% of the people that have responded to the poll.


i agree 100%, and yes, option 1 would be my favourite too

probably it´s possible to code the game that way that you already get a card when you take a terretory, not at the end of your turn.


It's possible, but there are many reasons we don't want people to get a card when they take the territory. It would completely change the nature of spoils games.

exactly, spoils games would then match the site's rules.

ps. that was only one reason you've provided


The site instructions clearly state:

What's a set of spoils? You earn spoils at the end of every turn in which you successfully conquer a region, just like reality!
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby greenoaks on Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:31 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
greenoaks wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
Seulessliathan wrote:
Doc_Brown wrote:I agree. The instructions state that you should earn a spoil if you conquer a territory. Clans have ruled that refusing to take a spoil card in clan play is considered cheating. I would just like some consistency on the site, which is why the suggestion has two options:
1) Automatically award a spoil if a territory is conquered (for some or all game types), or
2) Officially state that timing out is a valid strategy and reword the instructions to acknowledge that spoils need not always be awarded.

Personally, I favor option 1, as do 75% of the people that have responded to the poll.


i agree 100%, and yes, option 1 would be my favourite too

probably it´s possible to code the game that way that you already get a card when you take a terretory, not at the end of your turn.


It's possible, but there are many reasons we don't want people to get a card when they take the territory. It would completely change the nature of spoils games.

exactly, spoils games would then match the site's rules.

ps. that was only one reason you've provided


The site instructions clearly state:

What's a set of spoils? You earn spoils at the end of every turn in which you successfully conquer a region, just like reality!

which is our point.
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby Metsfanmax on Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:01 pm

greenoaks wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
greenoaks wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
Seulessliathan wrote:
Doc_Brown wrote:I agree. The instructions state that you should earn a spoil if you conquer a territory. Clans have ruled that refusing to take a spoil card in clan play is considered cheating. I would just like some consistency on the site, which is why the suggestion has two options:
1) Automatically award a spoil if a territory is conquered (for some or all game types), or
2) Officially state that timing out is a valid strategy and reword the instructions to acknowledge that spoils need not always be awarded.

Personally, I favor option 1, as do 75% of the people that have responded to the poll.


i agree 100%, and yes, option 1 would be my favourite too

probably it´s possible to code the game that way that you already get a card when you take a terretory, not at the end of your turn.


It's possible, but there are many reasons we don't want people to get a card when they take the territory. It would completely change the nature of spoils games.

exactly, spoils games would then match the site's rules.

ps. that was only one reason you've provided


The site instructions clearly state:

What's a set of spoils? You earn spoils at the end of every turn in which you successfully conquer a region, just like reality!

which is our point.


Not sure what you're saying. Getting a card at the time at which you conquer a territory would be different from getting a card when you end your turn, and would not be in line with what is written in the instructions. The cleanest solution to this problem is to always award a spoil at the end of the turn if a territory has been conquered, and it's really the only one that could conceivably get implemented.
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby stahrgazer on Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:22 pm

I prefer option 3: award spoils for all games except freestyle/speed where it's part of the timing.

But if that's going to hurt folks' heads, then Option 2: award card if a region is taken whether the player hits "end turn" or not.

In the case of freestyle/speed, if cards were awarded regardless, all players have the same opportunity to keep assaulting without having to end for a spoil so the timing thing doesn't change alot.

But either of these changes would fix the recurring questionable tactic in nuclear spoils where players who want to assault but don't want to have to nuke themselves, just let time run out after they got what they wanted to avoid the part they don't want.

There have been coding in the past that were argued for long times as "legitimate if questionable" until the site finally decided to end the matter by recoding to fix the 'questionable' tactic. (Freestyle double turn ring any bells for folks here?)

When you have many tournaments and group wars making a rule "against" a particular tactic, then it does seem that the majority of the site - at least the most legit players on the site - consider that tactic to be a violation rather than legal and as such, it seems the site should change the coding like they've changed the questionable codings in the past.
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby greenoaks on Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:27 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
greenoaks wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote: The site instructions clearly state:

What's a set of spoils? You earn spoils at the end of every turn in which you successfully conquer a region, just like reality!

which is our point.


Not sure what you're saying. Getting a card at the time at which you conquer a territory would be different from getting a card when you end your turn, and would not be in line with what is written in the instructions. The cleanest solution to this problem is to always award a spoil at the end of the turn if a territory has been conquered, and it's really the only one that could conceivably get implemented

we are not asking for it when you conquer a terit, we are asking for it when your turn ends & you have conquered a terit - just like the rule you quoted points out.
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Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby spiesr on Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:34 am

If you reread that quote chain Seulessliathan appears to have been asking that.
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