[GP/UI]Automatically Award Spoils Even if a Player Times Out

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Automatically award a spoil to a player that takes a territory:

Never. Timing out to avoid getting a spoil is a valid strategy.
18
22%
Always. Any player that takes a territory in any game type should be awarded a spoil, even if he doesn't click "End Turn."
44
54%
For all games except speed and/or freestyle. It's a key part of the timing in those games and should be preserved.
19
23%
 
Total votes : 81

[GP/UI]Automatically Award Spoils Even if a Player Times Out

Postby mightyal on Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:48 am

Final suggestion: A spoil is awarded at the end of every turn in which a territory is conquered, regardless of whether the player runs out of time.

Doc_Brown wrote:(Apologies if this has been submitted before. I looked and didn't see anything, but I may well have missed it.)
Concise description:
Eliminate the ability for a player to take his turn, capture or bombard a territory, then time out without being awards spoils. If a player times out on his turn, he will automatically be awarded any spoils he would have received if he ended his turn normally.
Alternatively, clarify that this is officially recognized as an acceptable and valid tactic on this site.

Specifics/Details:
In escalating and nuclear spoils games, some players will start their turns, capture territories (to break bonuses or interfere with opponents), then refuse to manually end their turns to avoid receiving spoils. This is widely considered to be cheap tactic and is now being penalized in clan tournaments. Dako was removed as head of CCup4, presumably due to refusal to include a rule allowing Clan Directors to enforce penalties for using this tactic. Evidently, multiple members of Team CC believe this should not be allowed.

There are times when people time out accidentally, due to connectivity problems or real-life interruptions. Unlike the case where they completely miss their turns, these individuals have started their turns, deployed troops, and engaged in one or more battles. For all intents and purposes, they have completed their turns, so it seems unnecessary to penalize them. On the other hand, a rule against timing out in clan play requires a subjective judgement about a player's intentions.

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:
  • Automatically awarding spoils will eliminate a possible cheap strategy.
  • It will reduce the burden on clan directors, since they will no longer have to investigate timing-out complaints.
  • It will eliminate a need for a subjective judgement about a player's intentions.
  • In accidental cases, it will remove a penalty for currently incurred for accidental timing out due to real-life interference.
  • If this is considered an acceptable strategy by Conquer Club as a whole, an official statement to that effect would clarify the situation for everyone.


Compromise Proposal:
Automatically award spoils earned in all sequential games. Allow timing out without receiving spoils in freestyle games.

From the comments I've seen, it appears that the majority of the people that favor being able to avoid spoils do so in speed freestyle games. I don't like the idea of different rules between speed and casual games. However, freestyle already has different rules from sequential and allows for other types of tactics related to timing of turns. Also, freestyle games are not permitted in normal clan play, so this change would take care of all clan-related concerns about the rule.
Advantages
  • Clan players no longer have to worry about someone making a subjective judgement on motives when someone times out.
  • Speed freestylers keep their lost spoils penalties for those that delay too long.
  • The same rules apply in clan games and non clan games.
  • There are no rule differences between casual and speed games.
  • It becomes explicitly clear that timing out to avoid spoils is an accepted tactic in freestyle games (where precise timing of turns is already a key component of winning).
MOD EDIT: Copied OP

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Last edited by spiesr on Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:44 am, edited 4 times in total.
Reason: Added [GP/UI] Tag for index
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Postby Wisse on Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:56 am

i agree
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Postby juggernaut man on Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:14 pm

I agree. If your computer freezes or something or the website doesn't work then you could miss getting a card.
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Postby Ronaldinho on Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:19 pm

People use it as a tatic also. They capture territories and then they waste down the clock to not get a card. I think you SHOULDENT get a card if the clock runs down though. Speeds up the game if some gimp keep just using the 1hour everytime knowing he will get a card
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Postby tals on Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:31 pm

Ronaldinho wrote:People use it as a tatic also. They capture territories and then they waste down the clock to not get a card. I think you SHOULDENT get a card if the clock runs down though. Speeds up the game if some gimp keep just using the 1hour everytime knowing he will get a card


Hmm I hadn't realised that - no win my case it may just slow the game down :)

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Postby Evil Semp on Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:36 pm

I agree with getting a card. A couple of times the site went down during my turn and I didn't get a card.

How can it be used as a tatic?

The only time it might help is freestyle when someone else is playing at the same time. And then if you were paying attention you would know if they got a card. In Sequential nobody else gets their turn until that persons turn is over so you would see if they had a card. But then again I use the Grease Monkey script that shows the cards.

People don't lose their reinforcements for missing a turn, why should people get penalized for playing. Remember one of the main reason for not losing reinforcements is life happens. I think that would be reason to give them their card.
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Postby Ronaldinho on Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:39 pm

Im not sure really, maybe if you are on 4 cards and you DONT want to cash next turn or if you may not want to. If you have a set then its a win win situation,...
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Postby Evil Semp on Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:12 pm

But if you have a set and don't want to cash you should not attack. I mean why risk losing armies if you don't want a card.
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Postby Ronaldinho on Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:27 pm

Evil Semp wrote:But if you have a set and don't want to cash you should not attack. I mean why risk losing armies if you don't want a card.


If they get a country bonus. Maybe you want to reduce it down to 3 again...?
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Postby Evil Semp on Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:51 pm

Then you have to weigh you options, get a card or try to reduce their bonus.

Why should someone be penalized when the site goes down? I had it happen to me twice and my wife had it happen to her twice. Once was in a freestyle team game that probably cost us a game.


Maybe you should have the option of not taking a card then. The only time I see it as an advantage not to get a card is the beginning of an escalating game.
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Postby Backglass on Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:53 pm

Evil Semp wrote:I agree with getting a card. A couple of times the site went down during my turn and I didn't get a card.

How can it be used as a tatic?


Picture an escalating game and everyone on the board has (4) cards...you have two blue & two green. The next value is 20.

You can attack to your hearts content, then let the timer run out. YOU dont get a card, forcing you to use them in the next turn. Chances are howeverthat your opponents WILL, so when you do decide to use your cards you simply take the card and the higher redemtion value.

Did that make sense?
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Postby Evil Semp on Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:00 pm

Backglass wrote:
Picture an escalating game and everyone on the board has (4) cards...you have two blue & two green. The next value is 20.

You can attack to your hearts content, then let the timer run out. YOU dont get a card, forcing you to use them in the next turn. Chances are howeverthat your opponents WILL, so when you do decide to use your cards you simply take the card and the higher redemtion value.

Did that make sense?


If you have 2 blue and 2 green how does this force you to use them next turn? Did you mean not force you to trade next turn?

But in that case you would have to wait 2 turns to trade becasue you have 4 cards and no trade. by then you might be dead becasue if there were 4 or 5 trades before you can trade it probably makes you a good target.
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Postby joeyjordison on Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:01 pm

i know it is a tactic but i don't use it as it can slow the game down. i think there r reasons why it should b changed coz it can b penalising if there is a genium problem. i would vote to change it.
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Postby Backglass on Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:38 pm

Evil Semp wrote:If you have 2 blue and 2 green how does this force you to use them next turn? Did you mean not force you to trade next turn?


If you have two blue & two green, no matter what card you get (red, blue, green) you must redeem on your next turn.

BUT if you let the timer run out, you dont get a card, and can thus delay your redemption so as to get a higher value while still attacking.

That is the tactic.
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Postby Bishop on Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:21 pm

I don't think that's a very genuine tactic. That's just aking advantage of the computer system. If you play the baord game version, you can't manipulate it that way.
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***Suggestion*** Getting a Card even when turn expires

Postby Soloman on Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:19 pm

<-------------------->

<Subject>:
If a person conquers 1 or more territories in there turn, they should still recieve a card even if there time runs out. Based on the games rules a card should be granted

The same system that judges whether a player has met requirements for a card should be able to award card whether they end turn or time runs out.

This is needed because any number thing can happen in the middle of a players turn(i.e. outage of power or connection, computer crashes or locks up, guest surprises you at home/work/school, or an emergency occurs that require immediate attention) that will cause for them to not be able to finish once they started. while they cannot get the turn back as long as they met the requirements for conquering territories they should still recieve there card.

Priority** (5):


<-------------------->
Last edited by Soloman on Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby pancakemix on Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:24 pm

Sometimes that can be used strategically, though. Ex: I have 1 card, green has 3, and I'm about to lose. I can choose to do as much damage as possible, but not end my turn, he only gets 4 cards, and can't trade.
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Postby RobinJ on Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:18 pm

I can see problems like the one above me but I would support this
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Postby freezie on Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:27 pm

pancakemix wrote:Sometimes that can be used strategically, though. Ex: I have 1 card, green has 3, and I'm about to lose. I can choose to do as much damage as possible, but not end my turn, he only gets 4 cards, and can't trade.



Another ''I will let the time flows and it will screw other players for their patience'' problem.

To me, it's another reason why you should earn the card anyway. I consider what I quoited to be unfair play.
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Postby Supermath on Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:29 pm

Or possibly "I don't want to end up with 5 cards and get only 4 armies."
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Postby vakEirn79 on Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:05 pm

Supermath wrote:Or possibly "I don't want to end up with 5 cards and get only 4 armies."


Then don't conquer a country every turn for 5 turns. If you couldn't get in a position to have that choice, then the (current) rules of the game dictate that you don't have a choice to not take a card either.

If timing out to not get a card is supposed to be a valid strategy, then there should be a method to simply choose to not get a card instead of having the player wait an hour and waste everyone's time. It wouldn't be very hard to have another button beside End Attacks to Pass Turn, so they skip their fort round in exchange for not being forced to take a card. As it is, it's just exploiting a mechanic which was intended as punishment, by doing the exact thing that was supposed to be punished in the first place (taking over an hour on a turn).

Btw, I was just arguing that the "strategically not receiving a card" argument shouldn't apply. I don't feel strongly about someone receiving a card or not if they legitimately time out. They did earn the card, but they're also wasting an hour's time, so not getting the card serves as that punishment I mentioned above.
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Postby freezie on Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:10 pm

Supermath wrote:Or possibly "I don't want to end up with 5 cards and get only 4 armies."



Don't conquer a country then. Unless your opponent forced you to, which then he is the one playing right.
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Postby trackersdream on Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:38 pm

vakEirn79 wrote:
Supermath wrote:Or possibly "I don't want to end up with 5 cards and get only 4 armies."


Then don't conquer a country every turn for 5 turns. If you couldn't get in a position to have that choice, then the (current) rules of the game dictate that you don't have a choice to not take a card either.

If timing out to not get a card is supposed to be a valid strategy, then there should be a method to simply choose to not get a card instead of having the player wait an hour and waste everyone's time. It wouldn't be very hard to have another button beside End Attacks to Pass Turn, so they skip their fort round in exchange for not being forced to take a card. As it is, it's just exploiting a mechanic which was intended as punishment, by doing the exact thing that was supposed to be punished in the first place (taking over an hour on a turn).

Btw, I was just arguing that the "strategically not receiving a card" argument shouldn't apply. I don't feel strongly about someone receiving a card or not if they legitimately time out. They did earn the card, but they're also wasting an hour's time, so not getting the card serves as that punishment I mentioned above.


a few points 1st did you even read the options it should not be a punishemnt for people to not recieve a card if they earned it as is stated at the begginning any numer of things could happen

2ndthe whole not wanting to get a card thing is the most senseless thing I have heard if you do nto want to earn a card for some odd reason either do not attack and deploy and end turn or play a no cards game that is simple
the whole point he was trying to make is stuff in life can come up like a computer crashing or your internet going out in the middle of you playing and you should get your card
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Postby vakEirn79 on Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:00 pm

trackersdream wrote:
vakEirn79 wrote:
Supermath wrote:Or possibly "I don't want to end up with 5 cards and get only 4 armies."


Then don't conquer a country every turn for 5 turns. If you couldn't get in a position to have that choice, then the (current) rules of the game dictate that you don't have a choice to not take a card either.

If timing out to not get a card is supposed to be a valid strategy, then there should be a method to simply choose to not get a card instead of having the player wait an hour and waste everyone's time. It wouldn't be very hard to have another button beside End Attacks to Pass Turn, so they skip their fort round in exchange for not being forced to take a card. As it is, it's just exploiting a mechanic which was intended as punishment, by doing the exact thing that was supposed to be punished in the first place (taking over an hour on a turn).

Btw, I was just arguing that the "strategically not receiving a card" argument shouldn't apply. I don't feel strongly about someone receiving a card or not if they legitimately time out. They did earn the card, but they're also wasting an hour's time, so not getting the card serves as that punishment I mentioned above.


a few points 1st did you even read the options it should not be a punishemnt for people to not recieve a card if they earned it as is stated at the begginning any numer of things could happen

2ndthe whole not wanting to get a card thing is the most senseless thing I have heard if you do nto want to earn a card for some odd reason either do not attack and deploy and end turn or play a no cards game that is simple

Maybe you could read what I actually wrote, instead of commenting on what you think I wrote.

For your first point, I said I didn't care. The reason this site has that rule in effect right now is presumably as punishment for taking too long. I didn't come up with the rule, I didn't say it should definitely be kept. Unlike you however, I bothered to take some time to think about why that rule might be in place right now, instead of just assuming every mod and admin on this site is an idiot.

Your second point is basically what I said with worse grammar, so...what's the point of telling me that? If it wasn't directed at me, you shouldn't use the First-Second structure when the first point clearly is.

trackersdream wrote:the whole point he was trying to make is stuff in life can come up like a computer crashing or your internet going out in the middle of you playing and you should get your card

The whole point I was trying to make is that "strategically not taking a card" is a poor reason to keep the current rule, which apparently you agree with. Sorry for not posting in point form with short words so you can understand it.
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Postby CreepyUncleAndy on Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:11 am

This has happened to me! I totally agree that you should always get a card at the end of your turn if you a take at least one territory, whether you end your turn or let time run out.

I can see keeping the status quo being an open invitation to abuse the meta-game meta-strategy aspect of letting the way time is managed on this site to fundamentally alter the game in a way that is counter to the spirit of the game. Darn, I had better, more concise explanations in my head before I wrote that.... :-s
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