Tournament improvements

Have any bright ideas? Share and discuss them with the community

Moderators: Suggestions Team, Global Moderators

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

And don't forget to search for previously suggested ideas first!

Re: Tournament improvements

Postby P4Ssoa on Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:51 pm

Night Strike wrote:So why should everything be coded into the site instead of controlled by the users? I don't understand the necessity.


I think there is a misunderstanding here. I'm not saying it shouldn't be controlled by the users!
I think it should absolutely stay controlled by the users, but on a special tournament platform. This to give tournaments a more professional approach. The forums work, but are basic. Maybe if you click on the spoiler tab in my first post, it will get more clear to you.
I indeed did suggest autmating bracket tournaments, but I think I should rethink this idea. The comments above did make it clear that automating a tournament, would be too easy and no honor should be given to the organizer, which makes it pointless for organizing. (except if you want to play in a specific bracket tournament, but if everyone should make his own automated tournament, there would be too many and the whole concept would fail...)

A special platform could hold more tournament features then the current forum setup.
A couple examples: Tournament statistics (active and completed tournament overview), subscribe to a tournament by clicking a button, better overview on the tournament you are organizing.
User avatar
Colonel P4Ssoa
 
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:35 pm
Medals: 40
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (7) General Achievement (3) Tournament Contribution (1)

Re: Tournament improvements

Postby Night Strike on Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:09 pm

P4Ssoa wrote:A special platform could hold more tournament features then the current forum setup.


Incorrect. No single system could be coded to provide the variety of tournaments that posting them in the forum allows. Currently, an organizer is limited by only what they choose to deal with, excluding a few specific rules. There are some features that can be included and will be over time, but I don't see the need to code the system to do the work for you. "Professional" just means the site does the work instead of the organizer. CC Tournaments are designed to be user-driven content, not site-driven.
Image
User avatar
Lieutenant Night Strike
Tournament Director
Tournament Director
 
Posts: 8622
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:52 pm
Medals: 77
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (10) Tournament Contribution (12) General Contribution (18)

Re: Tournament improvements

Postby blakebowling on Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:24 pm

Night Strike wrote:
P4Ssoa wrote:A special platform could hold more tournament features then the current forum setup.


Incorrect. No single system could be coded to provide the variety of tournaments that posting them in the forum allows. Currently, an organizer is limited by only what they choose to deal with, excluding a few specific rules. There are some features that can be included and will be over time, but I don't see the need to code the system to do the work for you. "Professional" just means the site does the work instead of the organizer. CC Tournaments are designed to be user-driven content, not site-driven.

I agree with NS that there is a lot more creativity in the tournaments section because you have to do the work manually. However, I would like to see a bit of automation (i.e. players can click "Join" instead of posting in a thread, TO's can setup simple themed tournaments and mass-create games for the same group of players (i.e. I have 6 players together per round, each of them has chosen a "home" game configuration (map, settings, etc) and they all play all 6 games against each other), winner "reporting" (i.e. you can go in and look at Round X and see who won which games that round)). I do not like the idea of fully automated tournaments though, on occasion they are nice (such as the Conquer Cup), but having them all automated would de-value the whole of Tournaments. Of course, before any of these changes are made, I will get feedback from the TO's to see exactly what they want/need from such an update.
12:39:59 AM rdsrds2120: sorry, I had a lot of lasagna tonight
12:40:06 AM rdsrds2120: I'm pretty out of it. CRAAZZYYY NIGHT
12:31:04 * Metsfanmax quit (kicked from Social by Metsfanmax - reason: haha gotcha now)
12:59:32 * #1_stunna gropes blakebowling
Cadet blakebowling
Operations Manager
Operations Manager
 
Posts: 4997
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:09 pm
Location: 127.0.0.1
Medals: 41
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (3)
Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (3)
Tournament Contribution (3) General Contribution (10)

Re: Tournament improvements

Postby Night Strike on Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:42 pm

blakebowling wrote:Of course, before any of these changes are made, I will get feedback from the TO's to see exactly what they want/need from such an update.


Thought that was what we TDs are for. And the features that we truly want are supposedly already on a list for the future.
Image
User avatar
Lieutenant Night Strike
Tournament Director
Tournament Director
 
Posts: 8622
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:52 pm
Medals: 77
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (10) Tournament Contribution (12) General Contribution (18)

Re: Tournament improvements

Postby blakebowling on Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:06 am

Night Strike wrote:
blakebowling wrote:Of course, before any of these changes are made, I will get feedback from the TO's to see exactly what they want/need from such an update.


Thought that was what we TDs are for. And the features that we truly want are supposedly already on a list for the future.

As far as I'm concerned, the TD's are TO's as well (for the most part). I also thought it was obvious that the TD's would be included in the feedback.
12:39:59 AM rdsrds2120: sorry, I had a lot of lasagna tonight
12:40:06 AM rdsrds2120: I'm pretty out of it. CRAAZZYYY NIGHT
12:31:04 * Metsfanmax quit (kicked from Social by Metsfanmax - reason: haha gotcha now)
12:59:32 * #1_stunna gropes blakebowling
Cadet blakebowling
Operations Manager
Operations Manager
 
Posts: 4997
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:09 pm
Location: 127.0.0.1
Medals: 41
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (3)
Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (3)
Tournament Contribution (3) General Contribution (10)

Re: Tournament improvements

Postby greenoaks on Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:31 am

blakebowling wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
blakebowling wrote:Of course, before any of these changes are made, I will get feedback from the TO's to see exactly what they want/need from such an update.


Thought that was what we TDs are for. And the features that we truly want are supposedly already on a list for the future.

As far as I'm concerned, the TD's are TO's as well (for the most part). I also thought it was obvious that the TD's would be included in the feedback.

it's not obvious to me, NS rarely runs a tourney. should we rarely ask for his opinion?

TD's are your contact point, they have their finger on the pulse. if you need to know something and they don't know the answer they'll get it for you.

it's like i've been suggesting elsewhere in this thread, if it ain't broke, don't try to rebuild the way things are done around here.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class greenoaks
Tech Contributor
Tech Contributor
 
Posts: 9997
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:47 am
Medals: 138
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (3)
Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (4) Freestyle Achievement (4) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (4)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (30) General Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (14)
Tournament Contribution (34) General Contribution (4)

Re: Tournament improvements

Postby P4Ssoa on Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:35 am

I think there is a real misunderstanding here though! I do not want tournaments to be fully automated. You are very right to say that the way things currently are creates a lot of space for creativity. I don't want to change this. The current topic system shouldn't disappear in my opinion. However, I do think some things can be improved.

The 'platform' I'm talking about gives a lot of overview and it also leaves space for future improvements.
This platform could still be linked with the forum topic. The options I suggested when you would click create tournament are mainly for when players want to join a tournament.
If you create a list with all tournaments, with a button to join a tournament automatically, you would want to know several things.
A) Tournament name (this is how your tournament will show up on the list.)
B) Amount of players and reserves (if filled, the tournament will disappear automatically from the 'Join tournament' list
C) Team games or single player (in case of team games, you will need to invite teammates before you can join the tournament)
D) Restrictions. (don't meet the requiremens? Then you are not able to click the 'Join tournament' button.
E) Player info required before joining? (This text will pop up when someone clicks the join button. Do you need to give up a certain map? A certain character name? Maybe settings for the games you'll play? You can ask your players this here, and when they click the join button, they will be asked to fill in what you ask them.
F) Tournament information = the content of the current forum topic! After creating the tournament, this info will be shown when you click on a tournament on the join page. Also when you create a tournament, a forum topic (exactly like we have now) will be created and this will be the content. The forum topic title will be the name of your tournament.

Tournament organizers will still do everything manually! My initial idea was to include an automation for bracket tournaments, but like people wrote before, this won't be a good idea.


The first goal of my suggestion is to create space and overview. After this, other improvements can be made, like automatition for joining a tournament, Mass create games, winner reporting.

Ps: Greenoaks, if you had an old nokia 3310, (the bastard almost never breaks.) you will never have that shiny iPhone then?
User avatar
Colonel P4Ssoa
 
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:35 pm
Medals: 40
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (7) General Achievement (3) Tournament Contribution (1)

Re: Tournament improvements

Postby greenoaks on Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:04 am

P4Ssoa wrote:Ps: Greenoaks, if you had an old nokia 3310, (the bastard almost never breaks.) you will never have that shiny iPhone then?

haha, i have a Samsung. one of those slide ones. i have dropped it so many times and it bounces, not breaks like a shiny iPhone.

my kids think i'm weird because there is no touchscreen, no internet, no megapixal camera. the thing is it does what it is suppose to do (phone calls, txt msgs & my morning alarm) and it doesn't matter what i do - i can't break it.

that's what our tournament system is like. reliable. day after day.

your mega-overhaul will fail P4Ssoa. we TO's need reliable. we need functional, no matter what crazy concept we envisage (some tweaks would be nice but NS already has a list of those for us). what we need is a sandbox to allow us to be creative. we have that.

drop this world changing crusade and help us tweak what we have ;)
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class greenoaks
Tech Contributor
Tech Contributor
 
Posts: 9997
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:47 am
Medals: 138
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (3)
Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (4) Freestyle Achievement (4) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (4)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (30) General Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (14)
Tournament Contribution (34) General Contribution (4)

Re: Tournament improvements

Postby P4Ssoa on Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:35 am

Haha, I guess my quote was a bullseye then! :D

If you look at the whole concept, it doesn't need to be inreliable or afunctional. The sandbox concept doesn't need to change.
(Maybe I do want to get rid of the box, but I'd like to create a desert instead, where the same creativity is possible, but with room for improvement!)
I want to make it possible to grow and improve, and the foundations, like they have been should not change. It can (and maybe even should) still be forum based. I wish I could code a website, so I could create the layout and show you a preview.

Every tournament would still have it's forum topic. The topic would be created when you create a tournament. (automatically, as the topic title is the tournament title and the first post content is the content of tournament information)
Every TO can still make a tournament the way he wants. There should be room for this. The concept I have in mind should not block any creativity. That would be very bad, and we really don't want that.

Maybe I am trying to make a world changing crusade, and I know 99% of the time, trying something like this is useless. I am just convinced that this would be a revolution for tournaments on this website, and that's worth the other 1%.
User avatar
Colonel P4Ssoa
 
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:35 pm
Medals: 40
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (7) General Achievement (3) Tournament Contribution (1)

Re: Tournament improvements

Postby Night Strike on Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:16 pm

Currently when tournaments are entered into the database, they are checked to make sure the tournament meets the minimum requirements. Your system removes that check.

You're to the point that you may be making it too easy for players to join tournaments. Going to the forum at least requires enough effort that most people will play in the tournament without disappearing. If all you have to do is click a button to join, then you're probably going to have more people who won't actually join their games.
Image
User avatar
Lieutenant Night Strike
Tournament Director
Tournament Director
 
Posts: 8622
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:52 pm
Medals: 77
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (10) Tournament Contribution (12) General Contribution (18)

Re: Tournament improvements

Postby Serbia on Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:24 pm

Night Strike wrote:You're to the point that you may be making it too easy for players to join tournaments. Going to the forum at least requires enough effort that most people will play in the tournament without disappearing. If all you have to do is click a button to join, then you're probably going to have more people who won't actually join their games.


For me personally, this is the biggest argument against any automated join system for tournaments. I know blake mentioned earlier that he'd like to see a "Join" button option, but I'd be very much against that for the reasons Night Strike just laid out.
User avatar
Captain Serbia
Tournament Director
Tournament Director
 
Posts: 9653
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:10 pm
Location: Detroit/Cleveland
Medals: 80
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (9) General Achievement (5) Clan Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (31) General Contribution (6)

Re: Tournament improvements

Postby greenoaks on Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:17 pm

Serbia wrote:
Night Strike wrote:You're to the point that you may be making it too easy for players to join tournaments. Going to the forum at least requires enough effort that most people will play in the tournament without disappearing. If all you have to do is click a button to join, then you're probably going to have more people who won't actually join their games.


For me personally, this is the biggest argument against any automated join system for tournaments. I know blake mentioned earlier that he'd like to see a "Join" button option, but I'd be very much against that for the reasons Night Strike just laid out.

i have already expressed my opposition against it to.

if someone is incapable of entering the thread to post 'they're in' then they likely won't have read the rules. i don't need that headache.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class greenoaks
Tech Contributor
Tech Contributor
 
Posts: 9997
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:47 am
Medals: 138
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (3)
Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (4) Freestyle Achievement (4) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (4)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (30) General Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (14)
Tournament Contribution (34) General Contribution (4)

Re: Tournament improvements

Postby P4Ssoa on Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:21 am

I agree, that's something to think about. But could requirements for joining not partially solve this problem?
User avatar
Colonel P4Ssoa
 
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:35 pm
Medals: 40
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (7) General Achievement (3) Tournament Contribution (1)

Re: Tournament improvements

Postby general cod on Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:58 am

Good points for and against - It's good to discuss these and other topics as this will only to help improve players experiences. 'If it isn't broke why fix it' is my weak comment to add ;)
User avatar
Captain general cod
 
Posts: 259
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:23 pm
Medals: 61
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (3)
Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (3) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (3)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (8)
General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (1)

Re: Tournament improvements

Postby greenoaks on Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:29 am

general cod wrote:Good points for and against - It's good to discuss these and other topics as this will only to help improve players experiences. 'If it isn't broke why fix it' is my weak comment to add ;)

that's not a weak comment, it's actually a good rule.

we have a limited amount of resources to make changes and many, many changes that could be made. pointing out that things are fine as they are is quite reasonable, and helpful to determine where those limited resources could be deployed.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class greenoaks
Tech Contributor
Tech Contributor
 
Posts: 9997
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:47 am
Medals: 138
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (3)
Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (4) Freestyle Achievement (4) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (4)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (30) General Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (14)
Tournament Contribution (34) General Contribution (4)

PreviousNext

Return to Suggestions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Login