Tournament improvements

Have any bright ideas? Share and discuss them with the community

Moderators: Suggestions Team, Global Moderators

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

And don't forget to search for previously suggested ideas first!

Re: Tournament improvements

Postby Night Strike on Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:48 pm

P4Ssoa wrote:I agree, that's something to think about. But could requirements for joining not partially solve this problem?


Those same requirements for joining could actually be the cause of why the tournament is not meeting the minimum requirements. Plus, we look for unfair structures to the tournament such as unequal paths to win (one player can't play 3 rounds while most other players have to play 6 rounds).

greenoaks wrote:we have a limited amount of resources to make changes and many, many changes that could be made. pointing out that things are fine as they are is quite reasonable, and helpful to determine where those limited resources could be deployed.


There are a bunch of suggestions out there that will be much more beneficial than this update because they revolve around actually getting players into games: invites for speed games, rescinding wrongly-sent invitations, invitations upon game creation, and bulk game creation; are all examples of suggestions that are supposed to already be on the list.
Image
User avatar
Lieutenant Night Strike
Tournament Director
Tournament Director
 
Posts: 8622
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:52 pm
Medals: 77
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (10) Tournament Contribution (12) General Contribution (18)

Re: Tournament improvements

Postby P4Ssoa on Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:28 pm

Night Strike wrote:
P4Ssoa wrote:I agree, that's something to think about. But could requirements for joining not partially solve this problem?


Those same requirements for joining could actually be the cause of why the tournament is not meeting the minimum requirements. Plus, we look for unfair structures to the tournament such as unequal paths to win (one player can't play 3 rounds while most other players have to play 6 rounds).


I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you mean by this. Can you please explain? What do you mean by "the tournament is not meeting the minimum requirements"? And what do you mean by: you look for unfair structures to the tournament?
You want to say tournaments like that are not allowed?
I'm not sure if I don't understand it, because I know too little about tournaments, or maybe my english isn't good enough. :-)

----
There are always suggestions with a higher priority. I agree you posted some good examples. These suggestions should be implemented first.
I just hoped to start a discussion in this topic with how we could improve tournaments. A long term project. I've posted my vision and I was hoping to get other people to post theirs aswel (, or discuss the ups and downs of mine.) It doesn't seem to work like that around here though.

Maybe in the end you are right greenoaks. 'The community' doesn't seem to give anything about improving tournaments.
User avatar
Colonel P4Ssoa
 
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:35 pm
Medals: 40
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (7) General Achievement (3) Tournament Contribution (1)

Re: Tournament improvements

Postby Night Strike on Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:51 am

P4Ssoa wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
P4Ssoa wrote:I agree, that's something to think about. But could requirements for joining not partially solve this problem?


Those same requirements for joining could actually be the cause of why the tournament is not meeting the minimum requirements. Plus, we look for unfair structures to the tournament such as unequal paths to win (one player can't play 3 rounds while most other players have to play 6 rounds).


I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you mean by this. Can you please explain? What do you mean by "the tournament is not meeting the minimum requirements"? And what do you mean by: you look for unfair structures to the tournament?
You want to say tournaments like that are not allowed?
I'm not sure if I don't understand it, because I know too little about tournaments, or maybe my english isn't good enough. :-)


Every tournament must meet certain requirements: the eventual winner must play at least 3 games, all game settings used need to be included in the first post, there must be at least 16 players or 8 teams, tournaments can't be limited to the top players on the site, etc. And even if it meets all the requirements, we have to make sure that the structure doesn't unfairly allow one player a quicker/easier path to victory over everyone else. You may want to organize a tournament or two to understand what goes in to organizing before recommending how it should be changed.
Image
User avatar
Lieutenant Night Strike
Tournament Director
Tournament Director
 
Posts: 8622
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:52 pm
Medals: 77
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (10) Tournament Contribution (12) General Contribution (18)

Re: Tournament improvements

Postby P4Ssoa on Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:53 am

I am organizing a tournament at this moment. This is why I started this topic in the first plays. I see a system that could be so much better.

All the things you mentioned could easily be solved. You just need to do some effort and brainstorm with me.

Instead of:
Bad suggestion because we cannot check the tournaments if they meet the website rules.

You could've said:
Something to think about: The tournaments should always be checked if they meet the CC rules before people are allowed to join. So before they go on the "join tournament" page, were players can see them, they should go to the tounrament staff for review. Only when the staff verifies them, they should turn up on the join tournament page.

You can look for flaws to put this idea to the ground, but you can also help to get rid of these flaws and make a brilliant system.
User avatar
Colonel P4Ssoa
 
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:35 pm
Medals: 40
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (7) General Achievement (3) Tournament Contribution (1)

Re: Tournament improvements

Postby greenoaks on Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:25 am

P4Ssoa wrote:I am organizing a tournament at this moment. This is why I started this topic in the first plays. I see a system that could be so much better.

All the things you mentioned could easily be solved. You just need to do some effort and brainstorm with me.

Instead of:
Bad suggestion because we cannot check the tournaments if they meet the website rules.

You could've said:
Something to think about: The tournaments should always be checked if they meet the CC rules before people are allowed to join. So before they go on the "join tournament" page, were players can see them, they should go to the tounrament staff for review. Only when the staff verifies them, they should turn up on the join tournament page.

You can look for flaws to put this idea to the ground, but you can also help to get rid of these flaws and make a brilliant system.

or you could run a few tournaments so we think you know what you are talking about. just a suggestion.

but don't worry, it's our fault. it's obvious the experience you've gained from running your one and only tournament allows you to take the commanding seat in a total ovehaul of a system that works so well for everyone else.

perhaps you could make it a little easier for the rest of us to back your changes by gaining some experience to support your opinion of this forum. but once again that's just a suggestion.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class greenoaks
Tech Contributor
Tech Contributor
 
Posts: 9997
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:47 am
Medals: 138
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (3)
Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (4) Freestyle Achievement (4) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (4)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (30) General Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (14)
Tournament Contribution (34) General Contribution (4)

Re: Tournament improvements

Postby Night Strike on Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:14 pm

P4Ssoa wrote:I am organizing a tournament at this moment. This is why I started this topic in the first plays. I see a system that could be so much better.

All the things you mentioned could easily be solved. You just need to do some effort and brainstorm with me.

Instead of:
Bad suggestion because we cannot check the tournaments if they meet the website rules.

You could've said:
Something to think about: The tournaments should always be checked if they meet the CC rules before people are allowed to join. So before they go on the "join tournament" page, were players can see them, they should go to the tounrament staff for review. Only when the staff verifies them, they should turn up on the join tournament page.

You can look for flaws to put this idea to the ground, but you can also help to get rid of these flaws and make a brilliant system.


I disagree that your idea is a brilliant system though, even if the flaws are addressed.
Image
User avatar
Lieutenant Night Strike
Tournament Director
Tournament Director
 
Posts: 8622
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:52 pm
Medals: 77
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (10) Tournament Contribution (12) General Contribution (18)

Re: Tournament improvements

Postby P4Ssoa on Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:49 pm

The whole purpose of this topic was to discuss how we could make tournaments better. I'm not trying to do it all by myself. If it looks like this it may be because nobody else is doing any effort to suggest something themselves.
I never said my suggestion was brilliant. I said litteraly "help to get rid of these flaws and make a brilliant system." That's asking everyone to put their thoughts into it. To work together to create a brilliant system.

I think the current system is amateuristic and unprofessional for a website like this. I know it can be better. I hoped to start a discussion on how we could make it better. If nobody wants this section to improve, better let the developers know they don't have to put any effort in it in the future.

Mod you can lock this topic and archive/delete it,
I rest my case.

ps: Greenoaks, you're posts are a real waste of space. You say you've got kids, but it seems you need to grow up yourself.
Maybe you should just stay out of this topic and do something usefull with your life, because the effort you've done by trying to take this suggestion down seems pretty pathetic to me.
User avatar
Colonel P4Ssoa
 
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:35 pm
Medals: 40
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (7) General Achievement (3) Tournament Contribution (1)

Re: Tournament improvements

Postby greenoaks on Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:17 pm

P4Ssoa wrote:ps: Greenoaks, you're posts are a real waste of space. You say you've got kids, but it seems you need to grow up yourself.
Maybe you should just stay out of this topic and do something usefull with your life, because the effort you've done by trying to take this suggestion down seems pretty pathetic to me.

:lol:

resorting to personal attacks when someone doesn't agree with your awesomeness is not childish at all.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class greenoaks
Tech Contributor
Tech Contributor
 
Posts: 9997
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:47 am
Medals: 138
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (3)
Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (4) Freestyle Achievement (4) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (4)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (30) General Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (14)
Tournament Contribution (34) General Contribution (4)

Re: Tournament improvements

Postby Night Strike on Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:07 am

P4Ssoa wrote:I think the current system is amateuristic and unprofessional for a website like this. I know it can be better. I hoped to start a discussion on how we could make it better. If nobody wants this section to improve, better let the developers know they don't have to put any effort in it in the future.


All CC Tournaments are run by regular users, who are amateurs by definition. Making it look like something done by professionals isn't necessary because it's designed to be regular users putting on events for other regular users. The professional arm of CC Tournaments is the Conquer Cup.

And there are many people who want to improve CC Tournaments, which is why I mentioned some of the items that are already in the works. Just because we weren't fond of this idea doesn't mean we don't want improvements.
Image
User avatar
Lieutenant Night Strike
Tournament Director
Tournament Director
 
Posts: 8622
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:52 pm
Medals: 77
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (10) Tournament Contribution (12) General Contribution (18)

Re: Tournament improvements

Postby DoomYoshi on Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:56 am

While I see the merits of a complete overhaul, I also see many downsides.

One is that the easier it is to join/run tournaments, the less you care about a tournament. Ergo, more likely dropouts by TOs and players.

However, I think this system is 100% better than the current for organizing speed tournaments, and I would be willing to consider just a speed version of this.

NS, was it you who ran the Speed League or was it DJ?
show
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class DoomYoshi
Entertainment Contributor
Entertainment Contributor
 
Posts: 3419
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:30 pm
Location: Termina Field
Medals: 70
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (8) Clan Achievement (16)
Tournament Contribution (4) General Contribution (5)

Re: Tournament improvements

Postby Night Strike on Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:58 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:NS, was it you who ran the Speed League or was it DJ?


DJ
Image
User avatar
Lieutenant Night Strike
Tournament Director
Tournament Director
 
Posts: 8622
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:52 pm
Medals: 77
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (10) Tournament Contribution (12) General Contribution (18)

Re: Tournament improvements

Postby DoomYoshi on Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:17 am

Ok, I sent a link to DJ, asking for input.

p4S, some players who run a lot of tournaments like 313, blu etc. might offer better input than I can. You should ask the people who are making these 16 player 1v1 DEs or SEs what they think, perhaps by sending them a link. Not a lot of people check this forum regularly.

What do you think about a modified version just for speed tournaments?
show
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class DoomYoshi
Entertainment Contributor
Entertainment Contributor
 
Posts: 3419
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:30 pm
Location: Termina Field
Medals: 70
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (8) Clan Achievement (16)
Tournament Contribution (4) General Contribution (5)

Re: Tournament improvements

Postby P4Ssoa on Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:41 am

I appreciate every input. I will send both a message. I don't mean to claim this suggestion as my idea. I hope everyone can think together for ways to make tournaments better.
In post 1 is only a quick draft of what I had in mind and I was actually hoping people could discuss possible flaws/ups and downs of a system like that.

The speed version is actually a very good idea. I didn't even think about that to be honest. I agree that it would be a lot easier to organize speed tournaments this way. It's also a good way to test a system like this with a speed version.
User avatar
Colonel P4Ssoa
 
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:35 pm
Medals: 40
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (7) General Achievement (3) Tournament Contribution (1)

Re: Tournament improvements

Postby greenoaks on Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:37 am

P4Ssoa wrote:I agree that it would be a lot easier to organize speed tournaments this way. It's also a good way to test a system like this with a speed version.

a better way than what?

neither of you have run a speed tournament so how would either of you know ?
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class greenoaks
Tech Contributor
Tech Contributor
 
Posts: 9997
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:47 am
Medals: 138
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (3)
Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (4) Freestyle Achievement (4) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (4)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (30) General Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (14)
Tournament Contribution (34) General Contribution (4)

Re: Tournament improvements

Postby spiesr on Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:49 am

I seem to recall that lack originally intended some of the tournament automation features to become publicly available. I am not sure where this stands on the current regime's priority list.
lackattack wrote:The Conquer Cup is fully automated, which means the games wil be created automatically and players will be matched and placed into games automatically. In the future this new tournament automation technology will be available for community tournaments as well.
From the Conquer Cup I thread.
User avatar
Lieutenant spiesr
Suggestions Moderator
Suggestions Moderator
 
Posts: 2751
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 10:52 am
Location: South Dakota
Medals: 23
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (3) General Achievement (5) General Contribution (2)

PreviousNext

Return to Suggestions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

Login