Fix the Sitter Situation

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Re: Fix the Sitter Situation

Postby codierose on Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:09 am

chapcrap wrote:
Jdsizzleslice wrote:So basically what your suggesting is, to make a "Sitter Mode" in which you can put your account to protect PM's, Forum information, etc.? So basically taking turns.

The problem with this, as previously discussed in the Mod's Forum, is that as a sitter, you occasionally need to do some things outside of simply playing games. For instance:
  • Posting in a tournament thread that requires it.
  • Checking PM's for time sensitive information, like game strategy with teammates or a PM with information about joining tournament games.
  • Sending PM's to teammates about strategy.
  • Editing old post information, like updating a war thread in the Clan area.

totally disagree as a sitter you should only ever sit a turn never read PM's, place posts as that person or anything apart from take a turn.
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Re: Fix the Sitter Situation

Postby rishaed on Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:13 am

chapcrap wrote:
Jdsizzleslice wrote:So basically what your suggesting is, to make a "Sitter Mode" in which you can put your account to protect PM's, Forum information, etc.? So basically taking turns.

The problem with this, as previously discussed in the Mod's Forum, is that as a sitter, you occasionally need to do some things outside of simply playing games. For instance:
  • Posting in a tournament thread that requires it.
  • Checking PM's for time sensitive information, like game strategy with teammates or a PM with information about joining tournament games.
    -if its for a game Gamechat is there for a reason.....
  • Sending PM's to teammates about strategy.
    -Ditto.
  • Editing old post information, like updating a war thread in the Clan area.

The other part is Its a Sitter not, the user... If things need posted in a tourney and you have set sitters then you can say before you go (XXX will be sitting for me and will post the necessary information in between these dates) As a tournament mod (haven't been one yet) but theoretically I would understand. Same thing for editing an old post. Let your clannies know that you will be gone on certain dates and will be updating it afterwards, and therefor have someone quote original post wanting to edit and update as needed. (If your sitter is a clannie even better!)
Even So This would only be acceptable with a Set verifiable sitting system.
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Re: Fix the Sitter Situation

Postby Jdsizzleslice on Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:15 am

codierose wrote:
chapcrap wrote:
Jdsizzleslice wrote:So basically what your suggesting is, to make a "Sitter Mode" in which you can put your account to protect PM's, Forum information, etc.? So basically taking turns.

The problem with this, as previously discussed in the Mod's Forum, is that as a sitter, you occasionally need to do some things outside of simply playing games. For instance:
  • Posting in a tournament thread that requires it.
  • Checking PM's for time sensitive information, like game strategy with teammates or a PM with information about joining tournament games.
  • Sending PM's to teammates about strategy.
  • Editing old post information, like updating a war thread in the Clan area.

totally disagree as a sitter you should only ever sit a turn never read PM's, place posts as that person or anything apart from take a turn.

It was just a thought. But still, make it a "Sitter Mode" Where it allows the person sitting to do only certain things. Maybe it can be in the Game Settings, where We have a Place for Sitter Mode and people modify it to their likings. For instance, a box to check "Let sitters read PM's? [Currently set to: No]" or [Let sitters post in forums? [Currently set to: Yes]"

It's just in the beginning thinking process; hopefully we can expound on it.
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Re: Fix the Sitter Situation

Postby Agent 86 on Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:49 am

codierose wrote:
chapcrap wrote:
Jdsizzleslice wrote:So basically what your suggesting is, to make a "Sitter Mode" in which you can put your account to protect PM's, Forum information, etc.? So basically taking turns.

The problem with this, as previously discussed in the Mod's Forum, is that as a sitter, you occasionally need to do some things outside of simply playing games. For instance:
  • Posting in a tournament thread that requires it.
  • Checking PM's for time sensitive information, like game strategy with teammates or a PM with information about joining tournament games.
  • Sending PM's to teammates about strategy.
  • Editing old post information, like updating a war thread in the Clan area.

totally disagree as a sitter you should only ever sit a turn never read PM's, place posts as that person or anything apart from take a turn.


Absolutely agree a sitter is there only to take turns for the away player nothing else. So sitters rights should be limited to this and only this.
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Re: Fix the Sitter Situation

Postby Vid_FISO on Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:18 am

A scenario that some are overlooking/ unaware of/ simply couldn't care less about -

a player has a family/ personal emergency and will not have any time to log into CC for an unspecified time period, (s)he is playing a large number of games, both individual and team, including a number of tourneys, some of which send the invites out via pm. I believe that it is acceptable to accept invites to already entered tourneys whilst sitting, but if those invites are sitting in the "in box" how does the sitter know that they're there if prevented from accessing them?
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Re: Fix the Sitter Situation

Postby watsy on Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:14 pm

Agent 86 wrote:
codierose wrote:
chapcrap wrote:
Jdsizzleslice wrote:So basically what your suggesting is, to make a "Sitter Mode" in which you can put your account to protect PM's, Forum information, etc.? So basically taking turns.

The problem with this, as previously discussed in the Mod's Forum, is that as a sitter, you occasionally need to do some things outside of simply playing games. For instance:
  • Posting in a tournament thread that requires it.
  • Checking PM's for time sensitive information, like game strategy with teammates or a PM with information about joining tournament games.
  • Sending PM's to teammates about strategy.
  • Editing old post information, like updating a war thread in the Clan area.

totally disagree as a sitter you should only ever sit a turn never read PM's, place posts as that person or anything apart from take a turn.


Absolutely agree a sitter is there only to take turns for the away player nothing else. So sitters rights should be limited to this and only this.


Lot of support for sitter mode now lets get it right and make it work you mods maybe vote for a yes or no to this yes ?
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Re: Fix the Sitter Situation

Postby codierose on Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:46 pm

Vid_FISO wrote:A scenario that some are overlooking/ unaware of/ simply couldn't care less about -

a player has a family/ personal emergency and will not have any time to log into CC for an unspecified time period, (s)he is playing a large number of games, both individual and team, including a number of tourneys, some of which send the invites out via pm. I believe that it is acceptable to accept invites to already entered tourneys whilst sitting, but if those invites are sitting in the "in box" how does the sitter know that they're there if prevented from accessing them?

in an emergency not knowing how long the member would be absent how is ok to join invites they might never be able to take turns. Surely would it not be better to ask a sitter to be a substitute instead. Are tourneys, wars and games really that important to read PMs or join invites.
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Re: Fix the Sitter Situation

Postby Jdsizzleslice on Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:54 pm

watsy wrote:
Agent 86 wrote:
codierose wrote:
chapcrap wrote:
Jdsizzleslice wrote:So basically what your suggesting is, to make a "Sitter Mode" in which you can put your account to protect PM's, Forum information, etc.? So basically taking turns.

The problem with this, as previously discussed in the Mod's Forum, is that as a sitter, you occasionally need to do some things outside of simply playing games. For instance:
  • Posting in a tournament thread that requires it.
  • Checking PM's for time sensitive information, like game strategy with teammates or a PM with information about joining tournament games.
  • Sending PM's to teammates about strategy.
  • Editing old post information, like updating a war thread in the Clan area.

totally disagree as a sitter you should only ever sit a turn never read PM's, place posts as that person or anything apart from take a turn.


Absolutely agree a sitter is there only to take turns for the away player nothing else. So sitters rights should be limited to this and only this.


Lot of support for sitter mode now lets get it right and make it work you mods maybe vote for a yes or no to this yes ?


Jdsizzleslice wrote:It was just a thought. But still, make it a "Sitter Mode" Where it allows the person sitting to do only certain things. Maybe it can be in the Game Settings, where We have a Place for Sitter Mode and people modify it to their likings. For instance, a box to check "Let sitters read PM's? [Currently set to: No]" or [Let sitters post in forums? [Currently set to: Yes]"

It's just in the beginning thinking process; hopefully we can expound on it.


Well, what do you all think? What do YOU members of CC want?
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Re: Fix the Sitter Situation

Postby chapcrap on Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:34 pm

codierose wrote:Are tourneys, wars and games really that important to read PMs or join invites.

Yes.
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Re: Fix the Sitter Situation

Postby zimmah on Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:33 pm

True, it's also quite hard to keep track of games of clanmates and friends (at least without addons). A sitter feature that also shows the games of friends that are about to expire on top of the lists, or warns you in some way, so that they won't miss a turn while you could have avoided it would be nice.

I imagine it somewhat like this:

a player can appoint one or more 'emergency sitters' that are permanent sitters that can act in emergency situations. They'll automatically gain the rights to sit when one of the following criteria is met:

1) a game reaches below a certain threshold in hours left to act (like 2 hours maybe) (sitting rights will only count for that one game) (since there's a pretty short time frame, a sitter should have the option to receive an email when he is able to take a turn, maybe even get a warning ahead of time, should be an optional setting).
2) a game will expire in a time where player would not be able to take his turn. A player can define "off hours" in their profile. For example someone listed on their profile that he's unable to take a turn on each Saturday between 13:00 and 19:00 and a turn in a game expires at 18:34 . If the turn was not taken before 13:00 than the sitter will be able to take the turn in those games starting from 13:00, because it's unlikely the player will show up.

In both cases, the game should show up in the list of games of the sitter, maybe marked with a different color or something. But they should be easy to spot so that the sitter will not overlook them.

Next to that, a player can also appoint a temporarily sitter that has full control of all turns in all games for a set period of time in case of vacation. The temporary sitter will have all games show up in their list for the full turn time until the player gets back.

A sitter will be appointed by the player, and has to be confirmed by the sitter.

Ofc there can be other solutions, but this is how I think it could work.
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Re: Fix the Sitter Situation

Postby rishaed on Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:49 pm

Jdsizzleslice wrote:It was just a thought. But still, make it a "Sitter Mode" Where it allows the person sitting to do only certain things. Maybe it can be in the Game Settings, where We have a Place for Sitter Mode and people modify it to their likings. For instance, a box to check "Let sitters read PM's? [Currently set to: No]" or [Let sitters post in forums? [Currently set to: Yes]"

It's just in the beginning thinking process; hopefully we can expound on it.

Most of you have ignored this, I think this is a great Idea! It not only satisfies you Clannies out there, it allows invites/PM usage or lack thereof for the rest of us, otherwise known as a happy middle ground. Could it have been that we have just missed it?
On a side note, Zimmah in a round about way brings up a good point, when should the sitters (in a true emergency you will not be able to contact your sitter) be able to take the turn? I find that 2 hrs is too short for many of us (as in I'd miss the turn anyways, if appeared when I was sleeping), but do not wish to penalize the other players of the game to wait another 22 hrs possibly. Maybe a happy middle ground here as well, or is a middle ground here possible?
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Re: Fix the Sitter Situation

Postby Armandolas on Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:34 am

I support this
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Re: Fix the Sitter Situation

Postby Arama86n on Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:04 am

Surely this must be well within the capabilities of the site programmers to do without too much hassle. And I'd say it's a rather important improvement to the overall enjoyment of the site. So... FIX IT.
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Re: Fix the Sitter Situation

Postby Steinmeister on Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:08 pm

Agreed. It's a big problem. Another IT challenge for the overtaxed CC team.
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Re: Fix the Sitter Situation

Postby Bruceswar on Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:26 pm

The Problem is there are so many different needs for different people.

I 100% agree with chap that PM's are a must and must be kept open.

Personally I think the only thing that should change is the password for a sitter. Surely you should be able to trust your sitter enough that they can read PM's if needed.

This is not as black and white as it seems.
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Re: Fix the Sitter Situation

Postby MeanestBossEver on Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:47 pm

Any solution would be better than what we have now. We just had a total mess in my clan because of this absurd security failure.

Here's my suggestion for a relatively small project: start with games. Allow a method for assigned sitters to take turns (including in game chat) using their login & password instead of yours. In addition to closing the security hole, this will allow for tracking and reporting of when a turn or a remark was a made by a sitter rather than the player. Other features can be added later. And players who need/want to give their sitters greater access can share their passwords. For them, it won't be any different.

I've been a paying member of CC for 5 years. I've recruited other people to play and I've been a clan leader. But I'm holding off on renewing my membership. I'd like to see this fixed first. I know my $25 is not much in the overall revenues, but hopefully it makes it clear how seriously I take this.
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Re: Fix the Sitter Situation

Postby Dukasaur on Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:14 pm

I think before we get lost in arguments over exactly how much a sitter should be able to do, we can all agree that there should be a sitter function of some kind. Whether it includes game turns only, or games and PMs, or games and PMs and forums, is something that can be tweaked later. First, let's get a basic sitter function enacted, so that sitters log in with their own password and can be accurately tracked.
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Re: Fix the Sitter Situation

Postby watsy on Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:00 am

Dukasaur wrote:I think before we get lost in arguments over exactly how much a sitter should be able to do, we can all agree that there should be a sitter function of some kind. Whether it includes game turns only, or games and PMs, or games and PMs and forums, is something that can be tweaked later. First, let's get a basic sitter function enacted, so that sitters log in with their own password and can be accurately tracked.



=D> =D> =D> prefect
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Re: Fix the Sitter Situation

Postby Bruceswar on Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:01 am

Dukasaur wrote:I think before we get lost in arguments over exactly how much a sitter should be able to do, we can all agree that there should be a sitter function of some kind. Whether it includes game turns only, or games and PMs, or games and PMs and forums, is something that can be tweaked later. First, let's get a basic sitter function enacted, so that sitters log in with their own password and can be accurately tracked.



Are you sure everybody agrees?
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Re: Fix the Sitter Situation

Postby macbone on Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:30 am

I do.

MeanestBossEver is right on the money. The current system is fraught with security issues, and being able to log in with one's own PW would shore them up. I trust my sitters not to go through my PMs, my private forums, or change my password, but those options still exist.

There's been a great deal of support for a sitter function for years. It's time one was implemented.
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Re: Fix the Sitter Situation

Postby rishaed on Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:40 pm

macbone wrote:I do.

MeanestBossEver is right on the money. The current system is fraught with security issues, and being able to log in with one's own PW would shore them up. I trust my sitters not to go through my PMs, my private forums, or change my password, but those options still exist.

There's been a great deal of support for a sitter function for years. It's time one was implemented.

+1!
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Re: Fix the Sitter Situation

Postby watsy on Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:14 pm

rishaed wrote:
macbone wrote:I do.

MeanestBossEver is right on the money. The current system is fraught with security issues, and being able to log in with one's own PW would shore them up. I trust my sitters not to go through my PMs, my private forums, or change my password, but those options still exist.

There's been a great deal of support for a sitter function for years. It's time one was implemented.

+1!


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Re: Fix the Sitter Situation

Postby DoomYoshi on Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:12 pm

So one major problem:

Let's say Dukasaur is sitting for me.

If there is a switch for me to turn him on and off, then he can't just sit my turns when I am away from home for an extended time (since I would have to activate him in advance).

If there isn't a switch, and I can just have another player set up as a semi-permanent sitter, than Dukasaur can still decide he hates me and destroy all my games.

Which is basically the current setup. With one exception of things being "tracked". Except we already "track" IP addresses to log in.

So that whole argument falls apart.

---------------------------

Still a great suggestion though, but this is going to be something we have to think about.
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Re: Fix the Sitter Situation

Postby Teflon Kris on Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:25 pm

is just sloppy


Yep, describes many things that need fixing.
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Re: Fix the Sitter Situation

Postby MeanestBossEver on Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:35 am

DoomYoshi wrote:So one major problem:

Let's say Dukasaur is sitting for me.

If there is a switch for me to turn him on and off, then he can't just sit my turns when I am away from home for an extended time (since I would have to activate him in advance).

If there isn't a switch, and I can just have another player set up as a semi-permanent sitter, than Dukasaur can still decide he hates me and destroy all my games.

Which is basically the current setup. With one exception of things being "tracked". Except we already "track" IP addresses to log in.

So that whole argument falls apart.

Still a great suggestion though, but this is going to be something we have to think about.


The worst Dukasaur can do is take a couple of turns for you. You'd probably realize quickly. Under the current model, he could:

1. Make comments as you.
2. Read your messages and send messages as you.
3. Get passwords that other people have sent you (oops...they didn't want to share with him)
4. Friend and foe people.
5. Join games as you .
6. Make ratings as you .
7. Access private forums.
8. Get your email address.
9. Change communication preferences.
10. Change your password.
11. Add and remove people from my clan (for clan leaders).
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