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Fix Auto-Tournaments [Freemiums/Deadbeats]

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Re: Fix Auto-Tournaments [Freemiums/Deadbeats]

Postby Mad777 on Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:30 am

...don't think he does...I bet this thread to be shut shortly anyway...nothing relevant here 8-)
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Re: Fix Auto-Tournaments [Freemiums/Deadbeats]

Postby iAmCaffeine on Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:15 am

I mean, my initial argument was relevant and is something that needs to be addressed..
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Re: Fix Auto-Tournaments [Freemiums/Deadbeats]

Postby Mad777 on Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:15 am

iAmCaffeine wrote:I mean, my initial argument was relevant and is something that needs to be addressed..


Understand, but again using an automated system and have tournament with no elimination makes it difficult to track, even do you put a system to eliminate player automatically then this will mess up the tournament setup, then a human will have to go into the setup and scratch his head to change the format, with this said what's the point to have Auto Tournament?

I know this is different that a Premium who becomes Freemium and wanted to benefit a high game load joining tons of games/tournaments. Your point with player leaving the site Premium or Freemium (missing turn and be kicked from game) is impossible to track without human input therefore it can't be fix.

This one I created with 100 players at start, I'm now at 90 players but I have to watch each remaining players to ensure none are deadbeating, turning Freemium, if one does then I have to wait a 2nd player or someone who wants to simply quit to maintain the tournament format with even number of player, I have to manually remove the players and change few fields in the format....Is this a hassle? Not completely because the system creates game and send invitation which save a lot of time for me but this is something you can't make it work automatically (other than creating an Artificial Intelligence who will assume that player will not renew his Premium or will not play anymore).

https://www.conquerclub.com/player.php?mode=autotournament&tournament_id=5143
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Re: Fix Auto-Tournaments [Freemiums/Deadbeats]

Postby iAmCaffeine on Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:48 am

I'm in an auto-tournament now against a premium player and they're about to deadbeat all their games. If this was an auto-tournament that wouldn't result in them being knocked out (it's 1v1 so thankfully they will be, but multiplayer games they might not) then it would create issues.
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Re: Fix Auto-Tournaments [Freemiums/Deadbeats]

Postby Thorthoth on Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:11 pm

IAC just completely lied and posted a an irrelevant link.

I can assure anyone reading this, that players that convert from premium to freemium during a tournament DO get kicked out at the start of the following round due to freemium game limits.

This should not happen to a player that has already been previously accepted into a tournament. It's not fair to that player or any other players in the tournament either.
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Re: Fix Auto-Tournaments [Freemiums/Deadbeats]

Postby Evil Semp on Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:12 pm

How about if a premium goes freemium during a tourney and gets booted he cant join anymore auto tourneys for a year after he becomes premium again.
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Re: Fix Auto-Tournaments [Freemiums/Deadbeats]

Postby Thorthoth on Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:21 pm

Nope, that won't fix the problem. It would only make CC more hated by the people.
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Re: Fix Auto-Tournaments [Freemiums/Deadbeats]

Postby Vid_FISO on Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:25 pm

Mad777 wrote:what's the point to have Auto Tournament?


Very valid question, just what is the point when there used to be loads of members willing to go to a great deal of time and effort to run a multitude of tourneys and deal with whatever eventualities came their way. If the tool isn't up to the job then a better tool needs creation.
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Re: Fix Auto-Tournaments [Freemiums/Deadbeats]

Postby Mad777 on Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:32 pm

Thorthoth wrote:IAC just completely lied and posted a an irrelevant link.

I can assure anyone reading this, that players that convert from premium to freemium during a tournament DO get kicked out at the start of the following round due to freemium game limits.


This should not happen to a player that has already been previously accepted into a tournament. It's not fair to that player or any other players in the tournament either.


It's not fair to benefit the game load when you know you will loose your Premium privileges, the majority of the player should know that any tournament takes sometime to run from start to finish then it's on that player to take appropriate disposition to prevent being kicked and renew his membership, period. There is exception for player' situation where RL change the game plan and renewing the Premium is not his/her priority due to unforeseen event in his/her life, but again the system is in place in such a way that the automation is no going to look at case by case...otherwise player should move toward Community Tournament where he/she can interact with the organizer and look for possible support.

Now in regards of a player being kicked out, this happen only if the tournament format allows the system to remove a player automatically for not be able to "join game" being Freemium, and if her/his score is within the lowest bulk of players that will get eliminated per tournament format, if the tournament has "No Elimination" setup throughout all rounds then the player won't be remove but just not able to play and be kicked after 3 Rounds for missing turns, this is the point of iAmCaffeine, in this case there is nothing that can be done unless to revise the tournament format and remove the appropriate player(s). Again this is a scenario that can't be setup using the Auto Tournament tool, it needs human input if all possible.
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Re: Fix Auto-Tournaments [Freemiums/Deadbeats]

Postby Mad777 on Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:45 pm

Vid_FISO wrote:
Mad777 wrote:what's the point to have Auto Tournament?


Very valid question, just what is the point when there used to be loads of members willing to go to a great deal of time and effort to run a multitude of tourneys and deal with whatever eventualities came their way. If the tool isn't up to the job then a better tool needs creation.


The tool is there to offer simple format without human interaction, especially with the game creation and player invitation, there is various format that can be offer, so far we are working with testing other type of AT (Auto-Tournament) but it involve as much as human touch than a Community Tournament, there is always room for improvement and we are spending time to look at what could be done or not.
The point here is more about the Freemium member versus Tournament Automation, tough case to resolve but Thorthoth is arguing about letting Freemium enjoying game load without spending money renewing the membership...I mean there is so much thing in the internet that work the same way but here it seems to be a big deal for no reason, if I download a Radio app and want to get rid of the stupid advertising that occur every 2 minutes then I have the opportunity to upgrade to Premium that will remove advertising, after 12 months of Premium advertising will come back if I don't renew, it's up to me then to decide what I want, either renew it and enjoy my music without interruption or living with stupid advertising because I don't want to pay for another year...quite simple no? I can go on and on with so much exemple that will take pages of posting but I think you get my point ;)
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Re: Fix Auto-Tournaments [Freemiums/Deadbeats]

Postby Vid_FISO on Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:07 pm

Mad777 wrote:
Vid_FISO wrote:
Mad777 wrote:what's the point to have Auto Tournament?


Very valid question, just what is the point when there used to be loads of members willing to go to a great deal of time and effort to run a multitude of tourneys and deal with whatever eventualities came their way. If the tool isn't up to the job then a better tool needs creation.


The tool is there to offer simple format without human interaction, especially with the game creation and player invitation, there is various format that can be offer, so far we are working with testing other type of AT (Auto-Tournament) but it involve as much as human touch than a Community Tournament, there is always room for improvement and we are spending time to look at what could be done or not.
The point here is more about the Freemium member versus Tournament Automation, tough case to resolve but Thorthoth is arguing about letting Freemium enjoying game load without spending money renewing the membership...I mean there is so much thing in the internet that work the same way but here it seems to be a big deal for no reason, if I download a Radio app and want to get rid of the stupid advertising that occur every 2 minutes then I have the opportunity to upgrade to Premium that will remove advertising, after 12 months of Premium advertising will come back if I don't renew, it's up to me then to decide what I want, either renew it and enjoy my music without interruption or living with stupid advertising because I don't want to pay for another year...quite simple no? I can go on and on with so much exemple that will take pages of posting but I think you get my point ;)


Not that there are many Community Tourneys any more (4 open at the moment) but most TOs have a variety of stipulations including kicking people that don't/ can't accept invites. If this is an issue with your auto tool then it needs an upgrade. Possibly also don't create auto tourneys that last longer than a couple of months?
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Re: Fix Auto-Tournaments [Freemiums/Deadbeats]

Postby Evil Semp on Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:13 pm

Thorthoth wrote:Nope, that won't fix the problem. It would only make CC more hated by the people.


On the flip side I bet more people like Caff would like it.
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Re: Fix Auto-Tournaments [Freemiums/Deadbeats]

Postby iAmCaffeine on Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:45 pm

Thorthoth wrote:IAC just completely lied and posted a an irrelevant link.

I can assure anyone reading this, that players that convert from premium to freemium during a tournament DO get kicked out at the start of the following round due to freemium game limits.

This should not happen to a player that has already been previously accepted into a tournament. It's not fair to that player or any other players in the tournament either.

How is my link irrelevant and how am I lying? TheGreys was a premium player and he went freemium during the tournament, also deadbeating a load of games. Then in the last round of the final he was back and his score was still good enough to play the single game he had a slot open for.

Are you handicapped?
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Re: Fix Auto-Tournaments [Freemiums/Deadbeats]

Postby riskllama on Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:42 pm

freemium lasagne wrote:Nope, that won't fix the problem. It would only make CC more hated by the people.

who, exactly, are these "people" you refer to?
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Re: Fix Auto-Tournaments [Freemiums/Deadbeats]

Postby Thorthoth on Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:32 am

THE people, Marie-Llamoinette. They won't sit around and eat your foul vego-lasagna cake forever.
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Re: Fix Auto-Tournaments [Freemiums/Deadbeats]

Postby iAmCaffeine on Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:34 am

Are you gonna reply to my comment calling you out on your bullshit or are you going to keep up your pointless existence?
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Re: Fix Auto-Tournaments [Freemiums/Deadbeats]

Postby Thorthoth on Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:04 pm

You are just obfuscating. And your complex special-case example doesn't even contradict anything I said.

It only shows that if you aren't deliberately lying, then you are ignorant of the way Freemium truly operates.

Step outside your golden Shangri-La and discover the real world (of CC).
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Re: Fix Auto-Tournaments [Freemiums/Deadbeats]

Postby Thorthoth on Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:25 pm

(sigh) I'm going to try to build a bridge here...

When you need new players on the site, new players to fill games... and tournaments. The silent silvers are always there to help. Just like the downtrodden workers of all societies make the base that props up the the gilded elites. And yet, for however little they ask for, they seem to get even less. Where is the gratitude?

Despite lacking the resources and a political power of the golden brethren, occasionally a Silver does rise up and claims victory in a game or tournament. There have even been silver Conquerors, though mostly only once they are out of office, I admit.

MY point is when a Freemium does well in a tournament, and only if he does well, shouldn't he have the chance to go on and follow his own game destiny as far has his skills (and luck) will take him? I think so...

How many additional games being added to his account are we even talking about. Not many.
I play more auto-tournaments than most but I am often eliminated in the first round or two. Only occasionally do I play well enough to make it to the finals.

Let's ennoble out tournaments and make the positive, valorous institutions for insignia of all colours.
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Re: Fix Auto-Tournaments [Freemiums/Deadbeats]

Postby iAmCaffeine on Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:35 pm

Why is a freemium joining a tournament he know he can't complete? It's just like community-run tournaments that say "premium only".
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Re: Fix Auto-Tournaments [Freemiums/Deadbeats]

Postby Donelladan on Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:19 pm

iAmCaffeine wrote:Why is a freemium joining a tournament he know he can't complete? It's just like community-run tournaments that say "premium only".


This. That's it.

There is some auto tournament specially made for freemium players.
And there is often community made tournament that are open to freemium.

Just join what you can play... that's seem really obvious.

If you join a premium only tournament, then become freemium, and you decide not to renew, it's your choice.
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Re: Fix Auto-Tournaments [Freemiums/Deadbeats]

Postby Thorthoth on Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:03 pm

This whole thread started because somebody else was complaining about players not completing tournaments... so maybe that will be the answer.

It's their choice.
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Re: Fix Auto-Tournaments [Freemiums/Deadbeats]

Postby iAmCaffeine on Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:39 pm

You're wrong as usual. I made a thread because of people who deadbeat or lose premium and they're not kicked out of the tournament, thereby giving free wins to other players and fucking with the scoreboard. Basically the opposite of your bullshit.
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Re: Fix Auto-Tournaments [Freemiums/Deadbeats]

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:08 pm

iAmCaffeine wrote:You're wrong as usual. I made a thread because of people who deadbeat or lose premium and they're not kicked out of the tournament, thereby giving free wins to other players and fucking with the scoreboard. Basically the opposite of your bullshit.


There is essentially nothing we can do about the freemium issue, other than make sure they can stay in the games even if it goes over the 4-game limit. We can and should implement Dukasaur's fix from the first reply, to help with the deadbeating issue.
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Re: Fix Auto-Tournaments [Freemiums/Deadbeats]

Postby iAmCaffeine on Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:35 am

Metsfanmax wrote:
iAmCaffeine wrote:You're wrong as usual. I made a thread because of people who deadbeat or lose premium and they're not kicked out of the tournament, thereby giving free wins to other players and fucking with the scoreboard. Basically the opposite of your bullshit.


There is essentially nothing we can do about the freemium issue, other than make sure they can stay in the games even if it goes over the 4-game limit. We can and should implement Dukasaur's fix from the first reply, to help with the deadbeating issue.

That would be progress at least. I'll add it to the OP.
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Re: Fix Auto-Tournaments [Freemiums/Deadbeats]

Postby iAmCaffeine on Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:00 am

ATN. MDK.
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