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[GO] Manual Territory Selection: Choose or Draft Territories

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Re: Placement of initial armies

Postby spiesr on Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:30 am

blakebowling wrote:You should try the setting called Manual Initial Troops. It's exactly what you're looking for.
No, he is clearly asking for the ability to choose his starting territories. Manual isn't like that.
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Re: Placement of initial armies

Postby agentcom on Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:56 am

spiesr wrote:
blakebowling wrote:You should try the setting called Manual Initial Troops. It's exactly what you're looking for.
No, he is clearly asking for the ability to choose his starting territories. Manual isn't like that.


Exactly. No this is not possible at the moment. Manual territory selection, I'm 100% certain, has been suggested before. You can use the "Advanced Search" function at the top right of your screen to narrow your search to suggestions and find and comment in the appropriate topic.
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Re: Placement of initial armies

Postby blakebowling on Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:35 am

agentcom wrote:
spiesr wrote:
blakebowling wrote:You should try the setting called Manual Initial Troops. It's exactly what you're looking for.
No, he is clearly asking for the ability to choose his starting territories. Manual isn't like that.


Exactly. No this is not possible at the moment. Manual territory selection, I'm 100% certain, has been suggested before. You can use the "Advanced Search" function at the top right of your screen to narrow your search to suggestions and find and comment in the appropriate topic.

Eh. That's not what I read. But choosing your own territories is not plausible because of the sheer time it would take.
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Re: Placement of initial armies

Postby agentcom on Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:18 pm

blakebowling wrote:
agentcom wrote:
spiesr wrote:
blakebowling wrote:You should try the setting called Manual Initial Troops. It's exactly what you're looking for.
No, he is clearly asking for the ability to choose his starting territories. Manual isn't like that.


Exactly. No this is not possible at the moment. Manual territory selection, I'm 100% certain, has been suggested before. You can use the "Advanced Search" function at the top right of your screen to narrow your search to suggestions and find and comment in the appropriate topic.

Eh. That's not what I read. But choosing your own territories is not plausible because of the sheer time it would take.


I know that's the reason given, but it really wouldn't be a problem for premium members or as an option for speed games only.
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Re: Placement of initial armies

Postby elonpuckhog on Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:39 pm

I was thinking, and I think the OP suggested this, that we set up a "fantasy type" draft for this option. So, when you join a game with this option, all the territories would be ranked in alphabetical order, and you could change the rank. So if you really wanted Los Angeles (on the classic map), you would rank that #1. If you're first to go, you would get Los Angeles. The next person would get either their #1 choice (unless it was LA) or their #2 choice. So, rankings are done in advance to cut down on the time thing.
I think it would be a great addition, but I'm sure its been suggested before. I went looking a couple of days ago and couldn't find anything specific.
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Re: Placement of initial armies

Postby waltero on Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:41 pm

I did a search. Found something along the line. was not the same and got off on different tangent.

Time would not be a factor? One turn to place (set up). Could happen simultaneous.
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Re: Placement of initial armies

Postby sirgermaine on Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:41 pm

There would be several ways to do this, whether as an auction-based system or as a draft-style selection, or a ranking of all terits, etc. There are many ways that this could be very interesting, although they'd have upsides and downsides based on the variability of maps here.
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Re: Placement of initial armies

Postby MoB Deadly on Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:45 pm

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Re: Placement of initial armies

Postby agentcom on Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:59 pm

elonpuckhog wrote:I was thinking, and I think the OP suggested this, that we set up a "fantasy type" draft for this option. So, when you join a game with this option, all the territories would be ranked in alphabetical order, and you could change the rank. So if you really wanted Los Angeles (on the classic map), you would rank that #1. If you're first to go, you would get Los Angeles. The next person would get either their #1 choice (unless it was LA) or their #2 choice. So, rankings are done in advance to cut down on the time thing.
I think it would be a great addition, but I'm sure its been suggested before. I went looking a couple of days ago and couldn't find anything specific.


The problem with this is that usually people don't want a certain territ, they want to set their territs based on where everyone else is claiming territs. So it they go first and snag one in Aus, but then the next 3 players grab an aus, they may want to try to do something different. So I do not think any type of fantasy draft/ranking would work.

I just thought of another problem: in fog games, you would see where everyone is deploying. The best way around that I can think of is to have all territs except yours appear as "?"s. Then you get an error message if you pick a territ that has already been chosen. The downside to this solution is that toward the end of the territ selection you would either have to flip this so that it shows available territs (but then possibly giving away some info) or continue with the above (and have players potentially selecting 100 territs on a map like World 2.1 before finding an available one).

Thus, I think we've found another restriction on this: it couldn't be used for fog.

So, you'd only be able to do sunny premium/speed games.
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Re: Placement of initial armies

Postby waltero on Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:31 pm

Not sure Fog is the best route to go.
My Idea had fog in mind.
one turn.
Simultaneous.
Speed or 24 hour.
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Re: Placement of initial armies

Postby waltero on Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:12 pm

Can't remember how the territory's are devided up...Anywhoo long story short.

Hypothetical situation.
6 players, 96 territory's. every player would receive 16 Numbers...1 through 16.
Every player would then place all his numbers on the board. In the end everybody would only receive 11 territory's...have to give five more for possible displacement.

If there ends up to be more than one of the same number on a territory then the player who places First would get said territory.

Say red and green and yellow all placed there number 3 choice on same territory. Going by player (placement) order (green places first then yellow and then red) Green would keep his Third placement choice. Yellow and red (as well as everybody else) would have placed there Fourth ( placement ) choice on the board already. Yellow and reds fourth choice would now become there third choice placement.
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Re: Placement of initial armies

Postby agentcom on Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:14 pm

waltero wrote:Not sure Fog is the best route to go.
My Idea had fog in mind.
one turn.
Simultaneous.
Speed or 24 hour.


Oh, I just re-read the OP. I didn't realize you were proposing a draft/ranking type selection. This doesn't make sense to me for the reasons mentioned a couple posts up.
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Re: Placement of initial armies

Postby agentcom on Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:26 pm

waltero wrote:Can't remember how the territory's are devided up...Anywhoo long story short.

Hypothetical situation.
6 players, 96 territory's. every player would receive 16 Numbers...1 through 16.
Every player would then place all his numbers on the board. In the end everybody would only receive 11 territory's...have to give five more for possible displacement.

If there ends up to be more than one of the same number on a territory then the player who places First would get said territory.

Say red and green and yellow all placed there number 3 choice on same territory. Going by player (placement) order (green places first then yellow and then red) Green would keep his Third placement choice. Yellow and red (as well as everybody else) would have placed there Fourth ( placement ) choice on the board already. Yellow and reds fourth choice would now become there third choice placement.


If the players aren't aware of the draw order, I believe that you would need to rank the entire 96 regions. Pretty sure that mathematically, you need to rank every one in order to ensure that the draw results in a complete distribution of territs. That would be kind of a pain in the ass. Plus, as I said before, you usually don't care about a certain territ for its own sake. You want to choose your first one from what's available and then choose your second one based on where your first one is, etc.
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Re: Placement of initial armies

Postby waltero on Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:07 am

Not really sure what you are saying?
Players aware of placement order...why not?

My example was taking into account Neutral Territory's to fill in the left overs.

On a six player game, only five players could be displaced at any one time.

66 territs on the game board...give each player 15 placement choices. Every player would still only have 11 armies on the board at start.

I do understand what you are talking about on ''choose your first one from what's available and then choose your second one based on where your first one is, etc''

Yes I have a remedy for that as well.
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Re: Placement of initial armies

Postby greenoaks on Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:50 am

i don't like this suggestion
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Re: Placement of initial armies

Postby waltero on Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:09 pm

Oh, here comes the sour puss. No problem Greenoaks...you no like any suggestion ;-)

You think Bogus Drop is a good Idea.
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Re: Placement of initial armies

Postby DoomYoshi on Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:32 pm

Another problem with the draft is that high level players would be able to discuss the merits of certain territories in the draft. It would start with classic and go from there. It wouldn't take long for clams to figure out ideal team rankings.

All in all, it's a lame idea.
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Re: Placement of initial armies

Postby sirgermaine on Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:51 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:Another problem with the draft is that high level players would be able to discuss the merits of certain territories in the draft. It would start with classic and go from there. It wouldn't take long for clams to figure out ideal team rankings.

All in all, it's a lame idea.



I don't really see why something that adds strategy is a lame idea.

That said, this thread could use some clarification on exactly what the OP is suggesting, so that we can all know exactly with what we are dealing here.
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Re: Placement of initial armies

Postby greenoaks on Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:54 pm

waltero wrote:Oh, here comes the sour puss. No problem Greenoaks...you no like any suggestion ;-)

You think Bogus Drop is a good Idea.

saying i don't like a poor idea doesn't make me a sour puss.

choosing your terits is great if everyone is in the room at the same time. here we are not.
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Re: Placement of initial armies

Postby waltero on Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:03 am

AH, I see no use in trying to get an idea across. It is either Too complicated (most always) for the current program.
OR people simply don't want to add anything to the game.

I would assume, that any suggestion that would be implemented would automatically be an option to chose from..while setting up the game.

If you don't like it Don't use it?

I for one do not like playing a game where the drop has already decided the winner of the game before it even starts...and I really hate taking a win like that.

A person comes up with an idea and post it. other people enter and Contribute, trying to make it work.
Pointing out potential problems...it is all helpful.

Coming in a room and saying I don't like it. OR it is a lame idea, does not help anything.

Won't work..can not work. Same room same time (speed game) only way this will ever work.

Where is your imagination...your creativity?
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Re: Placement of initial armies

Postby greenoaks on Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:59 am

waltero wrote:AH, I see no use in trying to get an idea across. It is either Too complicated (most always) for the current program.
OR people simply don't want to add anything to the game.

I would assume, that any suggestion that would be implemented would automatically be an option to chose from..while setting up the game.

If you don't like it Don't use it?

I for one do not like playing a game where the drop has already decided the winner of the game before it even starts...and I really hate taking a win like that.

A person comes up with an idea and post it. other people enter and Contribute, trying to make it work.
Pointing out potential problems...it is all helpful.

Coming in a room and saying I don't like it. OR it is a lame idea, does not help anything.

Won't work..can not work. Same room same time (speed game) only way this will ever work.

Where is your imagination...your creativity?

no point crying because your idea doesn't have universal support.

CC is not going to implement every idea just because a handful of players want it as an option. it is hard enough to get things lots of players want.
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Re: Placement of initial armies

Postby waltero on Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:41 am

Not crying. That is just it...to hard to get implemented and far too long. Not worth the time or energy and frustration to bother with. I play this game for a short time then move on to other. Come back in a few years to see if anything new going on around here.

Some areas have a real need for change. Random set up sucks! But I suppose it is the best you can come up with.

Bad idea: Move to Reject
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Re: Placement of initial armies

Postby sirgermaine on Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:32 pm

I mean, if you want to act like I've never worked to make a suggestion thread worth reading, then you obviously haven't read the thread I currently have stickied.

Seriously if you care about this suggestion do some basic leg work:
1. Be as clear as possible what exactly you are suggesting. I am still not clear on exactly what it would look like to a player to have the system you are proposing. Walk us through each step where something would be different than the current setup.
2. Actually search this forum (with the search, not just looking through a few pages) thoroughly for other threads that are similar to this one, and explain why your suggestion is different than each of them, or if they are the same, note that. If your search doesn't yield any results, try a broader search or with different terms. When I looked, even capitalization seemed to make a difference.
3. Please try not to berate other people for what they say in your thread. If someone thought it was a truly bad idea, they'd say that. It seems like mostly people have questions about how applicable this would be for a broader selection of games, and from what you're saying, I think that part of this comes from not fully understanding what you are proposing.

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Re: Placement of initial armies

Postby betiko on Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:06 pm

I think that's a very good suggestion. Zynga used to have a risk like game on facebook (well actually a risk game, they just had to change the name like cc does) and this was one of the options for speed games.
the auction thing isn't a bad idea, but i'd say round 1 everyone choses his first territory, round 2 you give you selection of territories by importance and you get them in an auction base that the server calculates.
round 3 would be the first actual round, unless you put the "manual" option that we have now.

of course, the territory selection would be another selection that gives a new type of medal ;)
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Re: Placement of initial armies

Postby agentcom on Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:13 pm

@ betiko: interesting idea

@waltero: this suggestion is your idea, you're starting to hear from a lot of different people about how/whether it could/should work. Lots of times people just stop by and say they don't like the idea. While that's not the most useful feedback ever it is nice because it lets you and everyone else see the popularity of this idea. You can try to win those folks over or just ignore them and hope there's enough people who do support it.

Also, just to keep expectations realistic, I think that this would be a somewhat major gameplay addition. These things take (lots of) time. So, don't expect this idea to go anywhere until (at a minimum) you have figured out EXACTLY what you are proposing and have made that CRYSTAL clear in the OP.

It's perfectly fine to go back and edit the OP as new ideas or changes are proposed. If you would like more information on how to do that and the best practices for doing so, I just wrote someone else a lengthy PM that I can forward to you.
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