Ignore lists off for tournaments

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Postby firth4eva on Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:26 am

bump
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Postby Iliad on Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:59 am

I agree
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Postby Gilligan on Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:39 am

I've never had this happen in one of my tournament games, and there have been a lot of my tournament games.
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Re: Ignore list off for tournaments [Done]

Postby lackattack on Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:05 pm

Although thre has been a workaround, foes no longer apply to tournament games. Hope this makes running & participating in tournaments a little bit smoother :)
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Re: Ignore list off for tournaments [Done]

Postby the.killing.44 on Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:08 pm

Awesome job! Does it do the same for BR's?
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Re: Ignore list off for tournaments [Done]

Postby 72o on Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:08 pm

Good work lack.
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Re: Ignore list off for tournaments [Done]

Postby phantomzero on Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:09 pm

good one!
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Re: Ignore list off for tournaments [Done]

Postby colton24 on Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:10 pm

the.killing.44 wrote:Awesome job! Does it do the same for BR's?


lackattack wrote:Since a Battle Royale is a tournament and the foe list no longer applies to tournaments, this suggestion can be considered implemented.
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Re: Ignore list off for tournaments [Done]

Postby FireStar on Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:28 pm

very nice. can't wait for the next BR
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Re: Ignore list off for tournaments [Done]

Postby stahrgazer on Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:53 pm

lackattack wrote:Although thre has been a workaround, foes no longer apply to tournament games. Hope this makes running & participating in tournaments a little bit smoother :)


I prefer the option of removing myself or opting out of the tournament rather than be forced to play a game with one of the very few ppl i've foed.
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Re-enable foelist for all games

Postby stahrgazer on Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:59 pm

Concise description:
    Return the old settings where someone who has a foelist can be sure that they will be ASKED to unfoe rather than unknowingly end up in a tourney or royale game with someone they have foed.

Specifics:
    A recent change makes foelist invalid for tournament games.
    Each player should have a right to determine who he/she will or will not play with.
    If the player is unwilling to unfoe someone, then that person should be given notification in advance and allowed to leave a tournament rather than be forced automatically/blindly into a game with someone he/she does not wish to play with.

This will improve the following aspects of the site:
    Personal choice.
    Keeps an individual's foelist intact.
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Re: Re-enable foelist for all games

Postby hecter on Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:06 pm

If you don't want to play with them, resign from the tournament.
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Re: Re-enable foelist for all games

Postby The Neon Peon on Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:26 pm

There are tons of people on the site that foe anyone that beats them.
There are several people on the site that have the top 10 pages of the scoreboard foed.

If either of these join, odds are that battle royals will never fill and if they do, no captains or above will be able to join. Personally, I enjoy battle royales and would like to be able to join them.

As for tournaments, you either take them off foe, or resign the tournament. 99% of people never pick the later, and all this does is delay tournaments. I don't see why we should encumber the majority to have to deal with sending PMs back and forth and taking people off foe lists and putting them back on for the minority to not have to check the profiles of a couple of members to see if they have them foed.
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Re: Re-enable foelist for all games

Postby AAFitz on Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:28 pm

stahrgazer wrote:Concise description:
    Return the old settings where someone who has a foelist can be sure that they will be ASKED to unfoe rather than unknowingly end up in a tourney or royale game with someone they have foed.

Specifics:
    A recent change makes foelist invalid for tournament games.
    Each player should have a right to determine who he/she will or will not play with.
    If the player is unwilling to unfoe someone, then that person should be given notification in advance and allowed to leave a tournament rather than be forced automatically/blindly into a game with someone he/she does not wish to play with.

This will improve the following aspects of the site:
    Personal choice.
    Keeps an individual's foelist intact.



You still have a choice, you can not join tourney's with people on foe, and can resign if one joins tourney with you, if you really want.

It is possible that some may try to take advantage of other players, by joining every tourney they join, but im sure they will get warned for that when if it happens too often.

The reason why it was changed, is it gave a player too much power over someone they foed. They could block them from tourneys, and block them from battle royales, and theres nothing to say they deserved to be foed in the first place. Now however, you have a choice of who to play still. Further, in a tourney, the rules are typically more strict, so there is no real chance that someone is going to hassle you too much, without being thrown out anyways, and suiciding into you is already against the rules, so really, this is the lesser of the two evils, and more fair than the old system generally speaking.
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Re: Re-enable foelist for all games

Postby Woodruff on Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:55 pm

stahrgazer wrote:Concise description:
    Return the old settings where someone who has a foelist can be sure that they will be ASKED to unfoe rather than unknowingly end up in a tourney or royale game with someone they have foed.

Specifics:
    A recent change makes foelist invalid for tournament games.
    Each player should have a right to determine who he/she will or will not play with.
    If the player is unwilling to unfoe someone, then that person should be given notification in advance and allowed to leave a tournament rather than be forced automatically/blindly into a game with someone he/she does not wish to play with.

This will improve the following aspects of the site:
    Personal choice.
    Keeps an individual's foelist intact.


But the "tournament foe fix" didn't change your ability in this fashion. If you were in a tournament with someone you had foed, you would be asked to "un-foe them or resign from the tournament"...and you still have the option to resign from the tournament. So honestly, this fix doesn't impact your personal choice in any way, but it DOES speed things up in that it avoids the tournament organizer from having to PM you to ask you your choice and then having you tell them to remove you from the tournament.
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Re: Ignore list off for tournaments [Done]

Postby Namor on Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:03 am

I have nobody on my foe list, but I still disagree with this idea. It is yet another case of the site being lenient with the abuser and hitting the victim.

There have been members in the past (some juvenile) that have been badly abused, then after the abuser has been only warned, the victim has been told that his/her only option is to foe the abuser.

Fair enough, this has been widely excepted as a good solution to that problem in the past. However, that now means that the victim is also being told to avoid playing tournaments, thus robbing them of an element of the site that they have paid good money for.

The only members to benefit from this idea are those that have 100's on their foe list. Often due to the fact that they had lost a few games to those players and are to cowardly to risk a few more points against them.

If this is going to be allowed to remain, then there should be a clear warning to EVERYONE that is being removed from a list, that if they cause any upset during those tournament games, they will be barred from future tournaments.
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Re: Ignore list off for tournaments [Done]

Postby hahaha3hahaha on Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:17 am

I can pretty much guarantee every single tourny maker will be pleased with this :lol:
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Re: Re-enable foelist for all games

Postby stahrgazer on Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:14 am

AAFitz wrote:
stahrgazer wrote:Concise description:
    Return the old settings where someone who has a foelist can be sure that they will be ASKED to unfoe rather than unknowingly end up in a tourney or royale game with someone they have foed.

Specifics:
    A recent change makes foelist invalid for tournament games.
    Each player should have a right to determine who he/she will or will not play with.
    If the player is unwilling to unfoe someone, then that person should be given notification in advance and allowed to leave a tournament rather than be forced automatically/blindly into a game with someone he/she does not wish to play with.

This will improve the following aspects of the site:
    Personal choice.
    Keeps an individual's foelist intact.



You still have a choice, you can not join tourney's with people on foe, and can resign if one joins tourney with you, if you really want.

It is possible that some may try to take advantage of other players, by joining every tourney they join, but im sure they will get warned for that when if it happens too often.

The reason why it was changed, is it gave a player too much power over someone they foed. They could block them from tourneys, and block them from battle royales, and theres nothing to say they deserved to be foed in the first place. Now however, you have a choice of who to play still. Further, in a tourney, the rules are typically more strict, so there is no real chance that someone is going to hassle you too much, without being thrown out anyways, and suiciding into you is already against the rules, so really, this is the lesser of the two evils, and more fair than the old system generally speaking.


Your point about, "there's nothing to say the player deserved to be foed in the first place," is nonsense while foelists are still allowed anywhere. It means a player can foelist for any reason he or she believes merits the foelist. Some reasons are a bit lame to some, but perfectly reasonable to others.

It was easy enough for the tourney leader to discount and redo games if someone refuses to unfoe. It was also much easier, because he has warning, than any player who is concerned having to scrutinize the tourney players who joined after he/she did.

It's certainly NOT the lesser of two evils to eliminate an option that enabled personal choice in favor of dictatorial automations; and it's certainly NOT more fair to give zero option when the prior system had several options even if it required the minor additional step of the director having to pm a player to unfoe or leave the tournament. Worst case scenario is the player refuses to unfoe or leave, so the tourney director has to pm those who joined the game to abandon that game; create a new game; and report the player for abuse of the game.

This new system still removes players having options, so should be restored to the old way. With the old way, instead of just dropping foelists, players had the opportunity to choose whether to unfoe or leave the tournament BEFORE a game with an undesired player began. With this new way, the player who misses that someone on his foelist joined the same tourney, is forced to play the person or deadbeat because the foelist is now auto-dropped for all tourney games.

I guess your opinion is that those players who use foelists now have the option of never joining tournaments.

I can't see how people prefer a system that removes personal choice that enabled options to satisfy everyone, and replaces it with computer dictatorship because it might take an extra day to have a pm responded to so the tourney can continue.
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Re: Ignore list off for tournaments [Done]

Postby stahrgazer on Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:30 am

hahaha3hahaha wrote:I can pretty much guarantee every single tourny maker will be pleased with this :lol:


Since I've made tournaments before, and had this sort of incident occur, I can assure you you're incorrect that "every tourny maker" is pleased with this. The solution was simple enough, and caused less than 24 hour delay. In the case of that tournament, the player did not wish to unfoe, so I had to promote a reserve. It was not a big deal.

Again, the worst that would have happened is the player would neither unfoe nor unjoin the waiting game (maybe he is out of town and his stand-in isn't reading his emails). Had that happened, I could start a new game for the tournament, discount the old, send another pm to those players to unjoin the previous game. Minor nuisance, but not a big deal.

If a tourney organizer is unwilling to make a pm or two, or a game or two, to enable his/her tourney to run, then he or she should not be starting tournaments.

I dislike systems that take away choice when options exist that enable choices.

This was done because "some people" abuse foelists. What's the next step: removing foelists entirely? Silly, considering that in cases of legitimate concerns the mods say, "use the foelist."

They've now effectively undermined their own inadequate disciplinary system with that disabling of foelists for tournaments.
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Re: Ignore list off for tournaments [Done]

Postby colton24 on Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:41 am

stahrgazer wrote:
hahaha3hahaha wrote:I can pretty much guarantee every single tourny maker will be pleased with this :lol:


Since I've made tournaments before, and had this sort of incident occur, I can assure you you're incorrect that "every tourny maker" is pleased with this. The solution was simple enough, and caused less than 24 hour delay. In the case of that tournament, the player did not wish to unfoe, so I had to promote a reserve. It was not a big deal.

Again, the worst that would have happened is the player would neither unfoe nor unjoin the waiting game (maybe he is out of town and his stand-in isn't reading his emails). Had that happened, I could start a new game for the tournament, discount the old, send another pm to those players to unjoin the previous game. Minor nuisance, but not a big deal.

If a tourney organizer is unwilling to make a pm or two, or a game or two, to enable his/her tourney to run, then he or she should not be starting tournaments.

I dislike systems that take away choice when options exist that enable choices.

This was done because "some people" abuse foelists. What's the next step: removing foelists entirely? Silly, considering that in cases of legitimate concerns the mods say, "use the foelist."

They've now effectively undermined their own inadequate disciplinary system with that disabling of foelists for tournaments.


Look for BRs some people would NEVER be able to join because of some people who foe the first 10 pages of people on the scoreboard. Anyways it saves the hassle of some people to take away foe lists for tournaments.

P.S. I wouldn't be able to join BRs cause of so many people...
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Re: Ignore list off for tournaments [Done]

Postby lackattack on Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:42 am

Namor wrote:However, that now means that the victim is also being told to avoid playing tournaments, thus robbing them of an element of the site that they have paid good money for.


Most tournaments already had rules that participants must un-foe other participants, so the "victim" alrady had to choose between playing a foe or abandoning the tournament.
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Re: Ignore list off for tournaments [Done]

Postby stahrgazer on Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:46 am

lackattack wrote:
Namor wrote:However, that now means that the victim is also being told to avoid playing tournaments, thus robbing them of an element of the site that they have paid good money for.


Most tournaments already had rules that participants must un-foe other participants, so the "victim" alrady had to choose between playing a foe or abandoning the tournament.


Incorrect, lack.
When joining a tournament, unless one happens to be the last person to join, one cannot be assured which other persons join. Now, the only way to be sure is for those who have a foelist to refuse to participate in any tournament.

Given that in most cases of questionable tactics, mods say, "use foelist" rather than administer warnings, and given that even in cases where mods do warn, they still advise the person making the C&A to use foelist, your new change eliminates your own disciplinary system without giving the person the added option of making a conscious CHOICE to give the foed person another chance at reasonable behavior.
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Re: Re-enable foelist for all games

Postby lackattack on Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:52 am

stahrgazer wrote:Concise description:
    Return the old settings where someone who has a foelist can be sure that they will be ASKED to unfoe rather than unknowingly end up in a tourney or royale game with someone they have foed.

Specifics:
    A recent change makes foelist invalid for tournament games.
    Each player should have a right to determine who he/she will or will not play with.
    If the player is unwilling to unfoe someone, then that person should be given notification in advance and allowed to leave a tournament rather than be forced automatically/blindly into a game with someone he/she does not wish to play with.

This will improve the following aspects of the site:
    Personal choice.
    Keeps an individual's foelist intact.


Stahrgazer, I merged your "anti-suggestion" topic into this to keep the debate in one place.

From my point of view, this is a question of balancing the interests of tournament organizers and participants who want their tournaments to run smoothly as possible against the interests of participants who want to be able to play tournaments yet be able to drop out instead of playing against a foe.

I respect your point of view, but so far it seems more people feel otherwise...

Perhaps when I get around to updating the tournament system, the joining process could be automated and we could apply foe lists at the time of joining the tournament :idea:
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Re: Re-enable foelist for all games

Postby stahrgazer on Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:04 am

lackattack wrote:
stahrgazer wrote:Concise description:
    Return the old settings where someone who has a foelist can be sure that they will be ASKED to unfoe rather than unknowingly end up in a tourney or royale game with someone they have foed.

Specifics:
    A recent change makes foelist invalid for tournament games.
    Each player should have a right to determine who he/she will or will not play with.
    If the player is unwilling to unfoe someone, then that person should be given notification in advance and allowed to leave a tournament rather than be forced automatically/blindly into a game with someone he/she does not wish to play with.

This will improve the following aspects of the site:
    Personal choice.
    Keeps an individual's foelist intact.


Stahrgazer, I merged your "anti-suggestion" topic into this to keep the debate in one place.

From my point of view, this is a question of balancing the interests of tournament organizers and participants who want their tournaments to run smoothly as possible against the interests of participants who want to be able to play tournaments yet be able to drop out instead of playing against a foe.

I respect your point of view, but so far it seems more people feel otherwise...

Perhaps when I get around to updating the tournament system, the joining process could be automated and we could apply foe lists at the time of joining the tournament :idea:


I disagree with merging; you don't merge other "i want the old way back" threads.

Automating searches for foelists still does not answer the problem of "what happens if someone joins later?"

This is particularly dumb of CC since in almost 100% of CC actions, Mods tell the person issuing the C&A, "use foelist" - so now you undermine your chief disciplinary action.

As others have said, again you're rewarding the abuser.

p.s. on merging thread and popularity: if you include the disagreement in a "done" thread you'll never know how many agree with me that CHOICE is more important than automation.
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Re: Ignore list off for tournaments [Done]

Postby lackattack on Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:19 am

Okay, I'll take "Done" off the subject while the debate goes on. But you posted the same arguement in both topics, splitting the debate. That's why I merged, not because of my point of view. And all those countless other topics that I didn't merge - it's because I don't have time to moderate the S&B forum but I am particularly interested in getting feedback on this matter.
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