Share Your Opinion! -- The Map Foundry: Stamp of Approval?

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How often do you frequent the Foundry?

Poll ended at Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:06 pm

I go in all the time, and I comment on a lot of the maps in the process.
4
9%
I go pretty frequently, I like seeing all the maps being made, and I comment on the ones I really like.
8
19%
I pop in to see what's new sometimes, but I don't really post. I don't know that much about maps.
12
28%
The map making process confuses me and I'd rather just wait for the maps to come out than get involved with the process.
2
5%
I've tried to go in before to add some ideas but I didn't feel very welcomed since I wasn't a regular.
10
23%
I am in the process of making a map and I am finding it hard without the community's constructive help.
3
7%
I am in the process of making a map and I love all the help I am getting in the Foundry.
2
5%
Other -- Please leave your comments below!!
2
5%
 
Total votes : 43

Share Your Opinion! -- The Map Foundry: Stamp of Approval?

Postby InsomniaRed on Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:06 pm

This is for the Community Opinion piece for Conquer Club News.

The Map Foundry is a forum here on Conquer Club (viewforum.php?f=10) and lately there hasn't been quite as much activity around the map-making forum. What are your feelings concerning the forum? Do you have any ideas to make it more interesting or to get the community more involved in the process? Tell us!!

Please vote, post and explain your opinion!!


-Insom

PS - Please don't spam this thread with anything that is not relevant to the topic, thank you ;)
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Re: Share Your Opinion! -- The Map Foundry: Stamp of Approval?

Postby jiminski on Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:17 pm

I began to go to the Foundry after the Classic map number highlight, polka-dot-nightmare debacle. - I felt it only fair to try to participate if i expected to be able to comment on anything they did!

I tried to help out a bit with comments on the gorgeous Archipelago map. (heheh it fills me with pride that Zeak and MJ were kind enough to even put my name in the corner ;) far too generous by half!!)

I was since utterly put off going to the foundry by the Brazil revamp debacle and am unlikely to ever return. I hasten to add that RJ still, through it all, managed somehow to make a magnificent and irresistible map.

The Foundry is a place of wonder and creative genius... not sure they should ever do revamps though ...
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Re: Share Your Opinion! -- The Map Foundry: Stamp of Approval?

Postby squishyg on Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:59 pm

I pop in every now and again and I've posted a few times. I get a little intimidated when I see 30 pages of posts though. I'm not always sure how to participate in the dialogue. Often the conversation has already progressed so far that I feel I have nothing useful to contribute. On the flip side, sometimes I do feel I have something useful to contribute, like constructive criticism on geography, but the map is too far along to make changes like that.
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Re: Share Your Opinion! -- The Map Foundry: Stamp of Approval?

Postby Robinette on Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:00 pm

I am very interested to see how this poll develops...

There is currently 7 votes, just 1 for each selection except one with none...
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Re: Share Your Opinion! -- The Map Foundry: Stamp of Approval?

Postby jiminski on Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:04 pm

Robinette wrote:I am very interested to see how this poll develops...

There is currently 7 votes, just 1 for each selection except one with none...



"there is currently ... " ? is that correct?
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Re: Share Your Opinion! -- The Map Foundry: Stamp of Approval?

Postby sinctheassasin on Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:08 pm

i am trying to make a map, but i feel that nbody really cares about the foundry.

one of the requirements to get out of the draft room is community support. if nobody cares, it wont go through.

I have heard people say good stuff about the map, but they never post it.

ive tried everything from talking about it in-game, to going to live chat and advertising every day, I have even pm'd all of my friends just so i could get more responses.

i think it would be great to have advertisements for maps in the draft room, since those are the ones that need to most attention.
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Re: Share Your Opinion! -- The Map Foundry: Stamp of Approval?

Postby jiminski on Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:16 pm

sinctheassasin wrote:i am trying to make a map, but i feel that nbody really cares about the foundry.

one of the requirements to get out of the draft room is community support. if nobody cares, it wont go through.

I have heard people say good stuff about the map, but they never post it.

ive tried everything from talking about it in-game, to going to live chat and advertising every day, I have even pm'd all of my friends just so i could get more responses.

i think it would be great to have advertisements for maps in the draft room, since those are the ones that need to most attention.



i find that your sig is the best advertisment for maps. .. see if you can link the thread so it goes there by clicking the actual image already in your sig. ... i was shown how to do this (my sig goes to a thread if you click it) and i'll help if you like.
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Re: Share Your Opinion! -- The Map Foundry: Stamp of Approval?

Postby squishyg on Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:27 pm

InsomniaRed inspired me to go the Drafting Room and I commented on three maps just now. Going to DR looking for a place to contribute made a lot more sense than trying to find threads on the main page of Map Foundry to chime in on.
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Re: Share Your Opinion! -- The Map Foundry: Stamp of Approval?

Postby Danyael on Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:49 pm

i think it would be great if more people would comment on the maps in the drafting room

As i am making my first map its easy to over look a lot of little nitpick and even obvious problems and for the community to see these in the early stages and point them out it helps alot

i know that some people just don't want to reply because a) they don't want to upset the map maker b) don't like the map
if its a) thats understand able but any comment is better than none and if the maker has a reasonable reason not to change it , its nothing personal and if the reason is b) tell the maker what you don't like if its a small problem it might improve it and you have helped alot.
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Re: Share Your Opinion! -- The Map Foundry: Stamp of Approval?

Postby sully800 on Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:07 pm

sinctheassasin wrote:i am trying to make a map, but i feel that nbody really cares about the foundry.

one of the requirements to get out of the draft room is community support. if nobody cares, it wont go through.

I have heard people say good stuff about the map, but they never post it.

ive tried everything from talking about it in-game, to going to live chat and advertising every day, I have even pm'd all of my friends just so i could get more responses.

i think it would be great to have advertisements for maps in the draft room, since those are the ones that need to most attention.


If you cannot gather support for a map through the means you have listed then it probably means it is not a map that people care to have added. Maps have to appeal to a large group of people to actually gather support, and since we have well over a hundred maps in play there aren't too many niches left to fill.
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Re: Share Your Opinion! -- The Map Foundry: Stamp of Approval?

Postby jiminski on Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:15 pm

sully800 wrote:
sinctheassasin wrote:i am trying to make a map, but i feel that nbody really cares about the foundry.

one of the requirements to get out of the draft room is community support. if nobody cares, it wont go through.

I have heard people say good stuff about the map, but they never post it.

ive tried everything from talking about it in-game, to going to live chat and advertising every day, I have even pm'd all of my friends just so i could get more responses.

i think it would be great to have advertisements for maps in the draft room, since those are the ones that need to most attention.


If you cannot gather support for a map through the means you have listed then it probably means it is not a map that people care to have added. Maps have to appeal to a large group of people to actually gather support, and since we have well over a hundred maps in play there aren't too many niches left to fill.



that's partially true sully, but there is a massive element of cult following when it comes to maps. If DiM were to walk in with a new map idea, almost any map idea, he would have a comparatively large group of people instantly there to bounce off. (perhaps to his distraction) that is because he is a superb map maker of course but it is illusory to think that new guys get adequate, automatic support.

But my point is, the first map for any map-maker is usually a lonely exercise in bloody-minded patience and self-motivation. - I believe that goes for even the most innovative of map concepts.
If you do not have the determination to make your fist map over a protracted period, you will never see it grow to adult-hood, no matter how good it is in embryo.
The new map maker is lucky if they get one dedicated commentator to bounce off. If they get that they have far more chance to follow-through to finish. - that is why i think the Foundry should put a buddy system into operation where map-makers or frequent visitors are allotted an apprentice or twinned map which they help advise on.
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Re: Share Your Opinion! -- The Map Foundry: Stamp of Approval?

Postby gimil on Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:54 pm

jiminski wrote:that's partially true sully, but there is a massive element of cult following when it comes to maps. If DiM were to walk in with a new map idea, almost any map idea, he would have a comparatively large group of people instantly there to bounce off. (perhaps to his distraction) that is because he is a superb map maker of course but it is illusory to think that new guys get adequate, automatic support.


I have to respectfully disagree with you here jim. That may seem the case but from an inside perspective I have noticed that probably everyone who has this opinion that the foundry is cultist place where you get better attention is your established tends to come from people whos map idea or graphical skills suck.

Time and time again I could list off plenty of quenched maps map by new map makers that had support from the start because they were graphically competant and their ideas worked. The most recent example being killing.44's greenland map, older examples include Benny and snap dodles NYC map, thenobodies and pikkos oceania map, archipejago by zeak and Mjinga, MrBenns europa map (his conduct, attitude and ability in this development helped him earn his CA position), t-o-m's madagascar but probably one of the best senarios was wcaclimbing and his oasis map. He gained huge support because his idea was innovative and exciting with the graphical skills to move his map forward. That is more than I can say for all the failed map makers who moan that the foundry is elitist.

The reason established map makers gain more support, recognition and help is because they got themselfs established by being good at making maps.
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Re: Share Your Opinion! -- The Map Foundry: Stamp of Approval?

Postby jiminski on Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:09 pm

gimil wrote:
jiminski wrote:that's partially true sully, but there is a massive element of cult following when it comes to maps. If DiM were to walk in with a new map idea, almost any map idea, he would have a comparatively large group of people instantly there to bounce off. (perhaps to his distraction) that is because he is a superb map maker of course but it is illusory to think that new guys get adequate, automatic support.


I have to respectfully disagree with you here jim. That may seem the case but from an inside perspective I have noticed that probably everyone who has this opinion that the foundry is cultist place where you get better attention is your established tends to come from people whos map idea or graphical skills suck.

Time and time again I could list off plenty of quenched maps map by new map makers that had support from the start because they were graphically competant and their ideas worked. The most recent example being killing.44's greenland map, older examples include Benny and snap dodles NYC map, thenobodies and pikkos oceania map, archipejago by zeak and Mjinga, MrBenns europa map (his conduct, attitude and ability in this development helped him earn his CA position), t-o-m's madagascar but probably one of the best senarios was wcaclimbing and his oasis map. He gained huge support because his idea was innovative and exciting with the graphical skills to move his map forward. That is more than I can say for all the failed map makers who moan that the foundry is elitist.

The reason established map makers gain more support, recognition and help is because they got themselfs established by being good at making maps.



heh what do you know, ya bampot!

yeas i did not mean to overstress the cult thing, i did mean to stress the fact that determination is the most vital thing as the start is very lonely until you get a reputation of sorts.
In essence sully, though be it unintentionally, just told the lad above that his map is crap and did not get the following as it is crap. I am telling him he may still be able to make it work if he has the determination to get a couple of people in to help him make it better.
I also don't agree that the map needs mass appeal as he said.. it really just needs a commenter with dedication too.

I can't speak for all but regarding your examples above, i have first hand experience of Archipelago and thank god MJ had Zeak and vice versa because if they had not they may have been put off entirely before they even got started on that one.

I was not intending to make anyone defensive, (you cartographers are so highly strung! ;) ) however i do think a 'buddy system' and channeling of people to bounce-off would be an improvement.
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Re: Share Your Opinion! -- The Map Foundry: Stamp of Approval?

Postby Woodruff on Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:01 pm

InsomniaRed wrote:This is for the Community Opinion piece for Conquer Club News.

The Map Foundry is a forum here on Conquer Club (viewforum.php?f=10) and lately there hasn't been quite as much activity around the map-making forum. What are your feelings concerning the forum? Do you have any ideas to make it more interesting or to get the community more involved in the process? Tell us!!

Please vote, post and explain your opinion!!

PS - Please don't spam this thread with anything that is not relevant to the topic, thank you ;)


Since you asked for the explanation, here goes...

My Vote: "I've tried to go in before to add some ideas but I didn't feel very welcomed since I wasn't a regular."

I went into the foundry with an idea after having been told that I was essentially wasting my time because the Foundry wouldn't be interested in helping me develop it if it wasn't "one of their own". Being the stubborn ass that I am, I ignored that piece of advice. I shouldn't have, because I found the Foundry to be cliqueish and insular. My idea (in the Map Ideas/Suggestions sub-forum) was held to a far different standard than many of the other ideas in that same sub-forum. In fact, I was FOE'd by none other than oaktown for SIMPLY SUGGESTING (admittedly in a sarcastic manner) that HIS idea should be held to the same standard that mine was. Apparently, that was quite the offense!

Now, that put aside, I did get one good response to my idea that was absolutely a worthy post (thank you, yeti_c), so don't get the impression that I only received snobbery...that's not the case. But there was enough of it.

There's simply no question in my mind as to how non-regulars are welcomed by the majority in the Foundry.

gimil wrote:
jiminski wrote:that's partially true sully, but there is a massive element of cult following when it comes to maps. If DiM were to walk in with a new map idea, almost any map idea, he would have a comparatively large group of people instantly there to bounce off. (perhaps to his distraction) that is because he is a superb map maker of course but it is illusory to think that new guys get adequate, automatic support.


I have to respectfully disagree with you here jim. That may seem the case but from an inside perspective I have noticed that probably everyone who has this opinion that the foundry is cultist place where you get better attention is your established tends to come from people whos map idea or graphical skills suck.


If that were the case, then I should have been able to get plenty of people to tell me my map idea sucked. But I couldn't even get that! Perhaps being someone that's "on the inside", you're no longer able to see the perspective of the new map-idea-submitter?
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Re: Share Your Opinion! -- The Map Foundry: Stamp of Approval?

Postby owenshooter on Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:37 pm

what a shock.. another foundry question from the foundry heavy newsletter that is still stickied down the GD's throat... even more shocking, if you read the thread, you can already see what the foundry is unable to see. what is that? why it is so few venture back into the foundry after visiting it at all... wouldn't shock me at all if Insomnia were asked to pose this question in the first place, by one of the foundry guys running the show at the COMMUNITY newsletter...-0
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