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Re: Clan League Complaint Box

Postby Leehar on Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:39 am

Moving forward, this was a discussion I already had with some other people, but is Phase 3 really necessary?
Phase 2 ensure that all the top clans play each other in a proper league format, and phase 4 is useful in determining a more worthy winner since it's a proper full length head to head, but phase 3 just seems like an unnecessary addendum?
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Re: Clan League Complaint Box

Postby josko.ri on Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:24 pm

Chariot of Fire wrote:Can this forum be as much about suggestions for CL5 as it is for complaints about CL4? I see this as being far more productive to resolving issues as, let's face it, whatever has happened in CL4 is already a fait accompli. The rules were set and every clan has had to comply with them - same for everyone (though some have seemingly coped better than others, but that's an admin thing by the look of it). If there have been problems with a particular TO then I'm sure this will be taken into consideration when the next series comes along, but for the meantime can we all just apply ourselves to seeing this through and upholding our obligations, both as TOs and as 1st Contacts. It would be great.

Now here's something that I think warrants closer scrutiny. It is the system adopted by UEFA for the European Championships 2012 in which there were 51 countries divided into nine qualifying groups. Not too dissimilar to the conundrum organisers of CL4 were faced with when deciding how best to 'qualify' the top clans from each division. Have a read:

"There were nine groups. Six of these groups had six teams; the remaining three groups consisted of five teams. Group competition was a double round robin: each team hosted a game with every other team in its group. The first-placed team in each group qualified, along with the second-place team with the most points against teams ranked in the top five in the group. The remaining eight second-place teams are paired for two-game play-offs, with the winner of each tie qualifying for the finals"

So what UEFA have done is take each 2nd-placed team in a group and calculate the points they earned against the four other teams in the Top 5. This is a clever system as it has no bearing on the 1st-placed team (i.e. if 1st place beat last place those points still stand, which is fair enough as everyone in each group had the same opportunity) but it does create a level playing field for the 2nd-placed teams who were in a group of only five countries. Their 4 results against opponents are comparable to the 4 results of a 2nd-placed team in a group of six. This is far better than the 'share a draw' system applied in CL4.

Only other thing I'll add (for now) is the restriction on Unlimited Forts. Personally I don't like them, but to have a quota placed on the number of games that can use them seemed unnecessary and possibly a deliberate handicap to KORT. This seems unfair. If they happen to be bloody good at those settings why penalise them? It's the first time I've ever known of unlimited forts being restricted and it seems unreasonable to me. It is a very standard game setting across all spheres of CC gameplay (tournies, challenges, etc).

Cheers

CoF


100% agree, if only there was more reasonable posts like this, we would have much better clan league.


Leehar wrote:Moving forward, this was a discussion I already had with some other people, but is Phase 3 really necessary?
Phase 2 ensure that all the top clans play each other in a proper league format, and phase 4 is useful in determining a more worthy winner since it's a proper full length head to head, but phase 3 just seems like an unnecessary addendum?

Since that was my and Masli's idea, first time shown in our proposed format, I will reply why we thought it was necessary...
Our general idea was that we have something similar like knockout, just in league style. in knockout, every next round has 50% less clans than previous round had.

Our initial statement was: "If a clan can achieve to be better than 50% other clans in particular round, then that clan deserves to advance to next round." so, if clan can be in top 4 when there are 8 clans, they move forward, if clan can be in top 2 when there are 4 clans they move forward, and if clan can be in top 1 when there are 2 clans they move forward.

positive sides of that format are also that almost every clan is in fight for advancing to next stage until the almost end, so everyone play with high motive. if we just made top 2 of 8 advance, then clans who are 6,7,8th placed after 4-5 rounds would loose any chance to advance and would maybe loose motive, so then clans who play vs them in Rounds 6-7 would have easier job than the ones who played vs them in round 1-5. with this format, almost everyone will be in chance for advance to next round until the very end.
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Re: Clan League Complaint Box

Postby Lindax on Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:54 pm

I just wish I had a clue what the Clan League is all about.

I don't know who we're playing (abbreviations of clans), I don't know where were standing, I don't know what I'm playing for, I don't know what settings we can and can't use and why, etc., etc.

This whole thing has gotten so complicated that even with my high intelligence level I cannot see the forest through the trees.

I'm going to ask my clan person in charge of clan wars to leave me out of this.

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Re: Clan League Complaint Box

Postby Leehar on Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:12 pm

Lindax wrote:I just wish I had a clue what the Clan League is all about.

I don't know who we're playing (abbreviations of clans), I don't know where were standing, I don't know what I'm playing for, I don't know what settings we can and can't use and why, etc., etc.

This whole thing has gotten so complicated that even with my high intelligence level I cannot see the forest through the trees.

I'm going to ask my clan person in charge of clan wars to leave me out of this.

Lx


I'm sure it seems a bit intimidating when looking at it in an overall context, but it really isn't as tough as you're making it out to be.
Heck, it sure as hell has a whole lot less turnover then with Tournaments!

But anyway, with regards to your first 2, the following links are crucial:
viewtopic.php?f=438&t=155407#p3404542 - The Active list of clans, pity it's not linked anymore otherwise you could get an idea of the players in them and how they explain themselves.
viewtopic.php?f=438&t=159580 - The ranking currently believed to be the closest approximation to where clans truly stand by virtue of results, give or take a few months.

For the 2nd two Q's, most people like Pack seemingly play purely for medals, while others just to play for pride, to team with friends, or have the most competitive gaming experience to be found on the CC siteTM, and settings are really purely determined by what you :-$ really want to play! It can exclude anything, or include anything your clan would like to play, subject of course to if other clans are interested in playing it as well.
You'll find however most clans are amenable to almost anything!
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Re: Clan League Complaint Box

Postby niMic on Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:21 pm

Chariot of Fire wrote:Only other thing I'll add (for now) is the restriction on Unlimited Forts. Personally I don't like them, but to have a quota placed on the number of games that can use them seemed unnecessary and possibly a deliberate handicap to KORT. This seems unfair. If they happen to be bloody good at those settings why penalise them? It's the first time I've ever known of unlimited forts being restricted and it seems unreasonable to me. It is a very standard game setting across all spheres of CC gameplay (tournies, challenges, etc).


I didn't even notice that. That's pretty terrible. It's not like Unlimited is some new, controversial setting. It's pretty old.
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Re: Clan League Complaint Box

Postby John Deere on Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:15 pm

Leehar wrote:
For the 2nd two Q's, most people like Pack seemingly play purely for medals, while others just to play for pride, to team with friends, or have the most competitive gaming experience to be found on the CC siteTM, and settings are really purely determined by what you :-$ really want to play! It can exclude anything, or include anything your clan would like to play, subject of course to if other clans are interested in playing it as well.
You'll find however most clans are amenable to almost anything!


Thats pretty funny! Some of us like the medals but we play to be the best! You know like to be better than Empire! ;) Its funny how a few of you Empire guys used to just say we were lucky, wait till you face a real clan etc..... now all you can do is find another way to throw mud at us from a distance. Get your foot out of your mouth, you look like a fool :D Oh since you have enough time on your have to talk trash here is some good reading for you http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=442&t=160092 I really like the title! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Clan League Complaint Box

Postby chemefreak on Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:36 pm

Chariot of Fire wrote:Can this forum be as much about suggestions for CL5 as it is for complaints about CL4? I see this as being far more productive to resolving issues as, let's face it, whatever has happened in CL4 is already a fait accompli.


Come on! The subject of the thread is obviously tongue-in-cheek. I was tired of reading complaints in the main thread so I created this one. Makes it easier to ignore the bullshit.
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Re: Clan League Complaint Box

Postby jj3044 on Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:02 pm

John Deere wrote:
Leehar wrote:
For the 2nd two Q's, most people like Pack seemingly play purely for medals, while others just to play for pride, to team with friends, or have the most competitive gaming experience to be found on the CC siteTM, and settings are really purely determined by what you :-$ really want to play! It can exclude anything, or include anything your clan would like to play, subject of course to if other clans are interested in playing it as well.
You'll find however most clans are amenable to almost anything!


Thats pretty funny! Some of us like the medals but we play to be the best! You know like to be better than Empire! ;) Its funny how a few of you Empire guys used to just say we were lucky, wait till you face a real clan etc..... now all you can do is find another way to throw mud at us from a distance. Get your foot out of your mouth, you look like a fool :D Oh since you have enough time on your have to talk trash here is some good reading for you http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=442&t=160092 I really like the title! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

This isn't about you... and perception is everything, isn't it! Let's keep it on topic, ok? Leehar was answering the question. I think we were mighty cordial and congratulatory for the win in the war thread.

On topic now: I believe that just about all the concerns I had, have already been brought up but I will say this: I do think that whoever organizes the CL5 should consider allowing nukes, unlimited unlimited, and (since clans will have more experience by then), trench. We should discuss the timeout issue again in the CLA to create a suggested rule around it, like the suggested wording of the 12hr fog rule.
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Re: Clan League Complaint Box

Postby Leehar on Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:52 am

John Deere wrote:
Leehar wrote:
For the 2nd two Q's, most people like Pack seemingly play purely for medals, while others just to play for pride, to team with friends, or have the most competitive gaming experience to be found on the CC siteTM, and settings are really purely determined by what you :-$ really want to play! It can exclude anything, or include anything your clan would like to play, subject of course to if other clans are interested in playing it as well.
You'll find however most clans are amenable to almost anything!


Thats pretty funny! Some of us like the medals but we play to be the best! You know like to be better than Empire! ;) Its funny how a few of you Empire guys used to just say we were lucky, wait till you face a real clan etc..... now all you can do is find another way to throw mud at us from a distance. Get your foot out of your mouth, you look like a fool :D Oh since you have enough time on your have to talk trash here is some good reading for you http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=442&t=160092 I really like the title! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


^ What jj said seems to cover this best. Much as I'd prefer to ignore you completely, you do actually exist so my reference seemed a useful analogy after the whole medal saga with Griff and co. Or were you just looking for another area to advertise your infamy?



Moving along, the timing out rules for CL4 really do seem spot on, so I really don't see need for any more than cursory changes, other than applying it on Nukes.
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Re: Clan League Complaint Box

Postby laughingcavalier on Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:00 am

Lindax wrote:
This whole thing has gotten so complicated that even with my high intelligence level I cannot see the forest through the trees.


This. I've had to have 3 or 4 pm exchanges with organisers, which I never had in any tourney before, and none of them have gone along satisfactory paths. And our monkis seem pretty confused about what we are doing or who we are playing and why. And if we're incorporating another game type, why don't we just play it instead of adopting another set of dubious and forgettable rules to make it yet more complicated? Maybe next time round, you can be less accomodating to all the different interest groups and make the whole format simpler.
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Re: Clan League Complaint Box

Postby The Voice on Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:14 am

chemefreak wrote:
Chariot of Fire wrote:Can this forum be as much about suggestions for CL5 as it is for complaints about CL4? I see this as being far more productive to resolving issues as, let's face it, whatever has happened in CL4 is already a fait accompli.


Come on! The subject of the thread is obviously tongue-in-cheek. I was tired of reading complaints in the main thread so I created this one. Makes it easier to ignore the bullshit.


Are you really ignoring the bs? Nothing in here must be bs then?

If a bull shits in the forest, are you able to smell it? Does it even have a smell?

When you place your tongue into your cheek, does it look like you're blowing someone? It does for me. I guess what I'm getting at is that I ate a banana once. Never again.
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Re: Clan League Complaint Box

Postby chemefreak on Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:39 pm

The Voice wrote: I guess what I'm getting at is that I ate a banana once. Never again.


Thx for sharing this extremely personal experience...we promise not to tell anyone about your banana experimentation :-$ :-$ :-$
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Re: Clan League Complaint Box

Postby The Voice on Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:01 am

chemefreak wrote:
The Voice wrote: I guess what I'm getting at is that I ate a banana once. Never again.


Thx for sharing this extremely personal experience...we promise not to tell anyone about your banana experimentation :-$ :-$ :-$


Lol, thank you :shock:
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Re: Clan League Complaint Box

Postby Bones2484 on Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:07 am

chemefreak wrote:
Chariot of Fire wrote:Can this forum be as much about suggestions for CL5 as it is for complaints about CL4? I see this as being far more productive to resolving issues as, let's face it, whatever has happened in CL4 is already a fait accompli.


Come on! The subject of the thread is obviously tongue-in-cheek. I was tired of reading complaints in the main thread so I created this one. Makes it easier to ignore the bullshit.


Good to know you don't care about some of the legit complaints. Makes the G1 decision to never participate in such events look like even more of a correct decision.
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Re: Clan League Complaint Box

Postby Leehar on Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:32 am

Bones2484 wrote:
chemefreak wrote:
Chariot of Fire wrote:Can this forum be as much about suggestions for CL5 as it is for complaints about CL4? I see this as being far more productive to resolving issues as, let's face it, whatever has happened in CL4 is already a fait accompli.


Come on! The subject of the thread is obviously tongue-in-cheek. I was tired of reading complaints in the main thread so I created this one. Makes it easier to ignore the bullshit.


Good to know you don't care about some of the legit complaints. Makes the G1 decision to never participate in such events look like even more of a correct decision.


To be fair tho, Cheme has moved his clan out of the CLA himself, and isn't involved in the running of the CL4 in any way either, so it would make sense if he only created this thread to save him some CD headaches with a lot of trolling reporting going on in the other one I assume?
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