F400 Ranking [April 1 Updated]

Information about clan activities and recruitment.

Moderators: Clan Directors, Global Moderators

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby MichelSableheart on Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:38 am

So basically it's big wins against middle clans, small losses against strong clans, all relatively recent to guarantee that the results haven't decayed yet which gives them a strong score?

@Benga: I would guess (without looking at the actual data) that KORT gaining points without new result comes from a severe loss decaying.
MichelSableheart,
Een van de Veroveraars der Lage Landen
User avatar
Colonel MichelSableheart
 
Posts: 610
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:10 pm
Medals: 21
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1)
Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (3) Tournament Contribution (1)

Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby Qwert on Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:00 am

nothing strange here, this list are update once per month, that why people have surprised how some clans jump in table.
Image
NEW REVOLUTION-NEW RANKS PRESS THESE LINK viewtopic.php?f=471&t=47578&start=0
User avatar
Major Qwert
SoC Training Adviser
 
Posts: 9175
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 5:07 pm
Location: VOJVODINA
Medals: 77
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1)
Fog of War Achievement (3) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (1) Tournament Achievement (5) General Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (6)
Training Achievement (2) Map Contribution (8) Tournament Contribution (22) General Contribution (4)

Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby Leehar on Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:57 am

benga wrote:Can you explain then how KORT got 10 pts w/o any new results coming in for them
and OSA got only 31 for winning 2 wars??

This was meant as a change from last month.

clan league?
Image
show
User avatar
Brigadier Leehar
Head Clan Director
Head Clan Director
 
Posts: 5961
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:12 pm
Location: Graduation Ceremony
Medals: 125
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (4) Beta Map Achievement (1) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (31)
General Achievement (21) Clan Achievement (13) Training Achievement (7) Challenge Achievement (1) General Contribution (8)

Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby Chariot of Fire on Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:11 am

Leehar wrote:
benga wrote:Can you explain then how KORT got 10 pts w/o any new results coming in for them
and OSA got only 31 for winning 2 wars??

This was meant as a change from last month.

clan league?


That's what I'd have put it down to, but there are no June results for KORT in the list under the OP.

Brownie points?
Image
Highest position #5 (18 Nov 2010) General 4,380pts (11 Dec 2010)
User avatar
General Chariot of Fire
 
Posts: 3116
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:13 am
Location: Hong Kong
Medals: 89
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (21) General Achievement (9) Clan Achievement (25)

Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby IcePack on Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:36 am

@ benga...leaving for work, but happy to look into this as well. Although the previous explanation seems to fit my initial thoughts
Interested in clans? Check out the Fallen!

Image

Please contact chapcrap if my game times run low.
User avatar
Major IcePack
Beta Tester Extraordinaire
Beta Tester Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 5565
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:42 pm
Location: California
Medals: 94
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (4) Beta Map Achievement (1) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (9)
General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (15) Challenge Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (11) General Contribution (8)

Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby chemefreak on Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:43 am

IcePack wrote:One thing cheme to keep in mind (please take this as constructive criticism, if i may) but adding large amounts of clan results on the same day can actually have an effect on clan scores as the date and order of challenges in database does have some effect within rankings. So if we could more accurately submit them on day of completion (and avoid doing them all at once on same day...or if you do that, perhaps moving to completed but date them when the challenges finish) so the challenges are entered as completed. Its a small difference, but it does make a difference.


It doesn't matter when I add them. The date we provide has the end date of the war. So if I do 5 wars today, I list the completion date separately for numbering purposes. Please feel free to update your data accordingly. Here is the link:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Atustsi2x0-2dDR6TVo4YnhQcWZzeUs0YXNlMHZrd3c&hl=en_US#gid=0

The end date is the date the last game of that war was completed.
:twisted: ChemE :twisted: Praetor
Image
братья в рукоятках
I ♥ ++The Legion++
User avatar
Lieutenant chemefreak
Clan Director
Clan Director
 
Posts: 3275
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:30 pm
Location: Columbus (Franklin Park), Ohio
Medals: 76
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Bot Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (7) General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (15) Tournament Contribution (3)
General Contribution (6)

Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby IcePack on Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:46 am

I don't see any CL results there? The reason I mentioned that is there were quite a glut of same day entries in the info I was provided which effects the rankings.

Examples: 3/28/12 as 4/1/12

I'll take my info and compare to that link.

IcePack
Interested in clans? Check out the Fallen!

Image

Please contact chapcrap if my game times run low.
User avatar
Major IcePack
Beta Tester Extraordinaire
Beta Tester Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 5565
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:42 pm
Location: California
Medals: 94
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (4) Beta Map Achievement (1) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (9)
General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (15) Challenge Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (11) General Contribution (8)

Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby chemefreak on Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:50 am

IcePack wrote:I don't see any CL results there? The reason I mentioned that is there were quite a glut of same day entries in the info I was provided which effects the rankings.

I'll take my info and compare to that link.

IcePack


We don't keep track of CL results. Only wars. Our file is the official record. If there is a glut of entries on certain dates in our data that is because those wars ended on that date. Nothing we can do about that! Also, if wars end on the same date, we try to find the last game played of each war and determine which one ended first. This was extremely important for the ladder and even though that is not active anymore we still pay attention to that variable.
:twisted: ChemE :twisted: Praetor
Image
братья в рукоятках
I ♥ ++The Legion++
User avatar
Lieutenant chemefreak
Clan Director
Clan Director
 
Posts: 3275
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:30 pm
Location: Columbus (Franklin Park), Ohio
Medals: 76
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Bot Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (7) General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (15) Tournament Contribution (3)
General Contribution (6)

Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby IcePack on Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:54 am

chemefreak wrote:
IcePack wrote:I don't see any CL results there? The reason I mentioned that is there were quite a glut of same day entries in the info I was provided which effects the rankings.

I'll take my info and compare to that link.

IcePack


We don't keep track of CL results. Only wars. Our file is the official record. If there is a glut of entries on certain dates in our data that is because those wars ended on that date. Nothing we can do about that! Also, if wars end on the same date, we try to find the last game played of each war and determine which one ended first. This was extremely important for the ladder and even though that is not active anymore we still pay attention to that variable.


Understood. However for CL results that you don't track, do you do the same date entry check when you move to completed? IE: if you move all CL first rounds together do they all bear the same date or do you check the final date on those as well?

IcePack
Interested in clans? Check out the Fallen!

Image

Please contact chapcrap if my game times run low.
User avatar
Major IcePack
Beta Tester Extraordinaire
Beta Tester Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 5565
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:42 pm
Location: California
Medals: 94
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (4) Beta Map Achievement (1) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (9)
General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (15) Challenge Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (11) General Contribution (8)

Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby chemefreak on Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:14 am

IcePack wrote:
chemefreak wrote:
IcePack wrote:I don't see any CL results there? The reason I mentioned that is there were quite a glut of same day entries in the info I was provided which effects the rankings.

I'll take my info and compare to that link.

IcePack


We don't keep track of CL results. Only wars. Our file is the official record. If there is a glut of entries on certain dates in our data that is because those wars ended on that date. Nothing we can do about that! Also, if wars end on the same date, we try to find the last game played of each war and determine which one ended first. This was extremely important for the ladder and even though that is not active anymore we still pay attention to that variable.


Understood. However for CL results that you don't track, do you do the same date entry check when you move to completed? IE: if you move all CL first rounds together do they all bear the same date or do you check the final date on those as well?

IcePack


They are not moved all at the same time, however, for instance, Phase I - Division X - CL4 was not moved until the final game ended AND the TOs had completely updated all the charts, games, etc. then asked me to move them. (Which could have been days, if not weeks later) So let's say Otpisani had 5 series in the their division. The 1st series may have been over 7-10 weeks prior to it being moved to closed. You will have to go through the games and determine when the last one ended for each series...thus the reason we don't track those!

Also, let me point out one very important thing that goes all the way back to jpcloet...the clan leagues are TOURNAMENTS and not wars. Accordingly, they involve "forced" pairings. jpcloet never wanted to include these in official rankings since they may involve "unfair" challenges. Remember when we would not issue medals for the CCup? This was jpcloet's mandate because the tournament style events encourage unfair match-ups, especially at the beginning. Now, what changed with the CCup was the "go live" of the leap ladder. Basically, in the leap system, the rankings would not be effected by a high ranked clan demolishing a low ranked clan since there would be no movement on the ladder. This is what finally allowed the CCup match-ups to get medals and have their results included on the war tables. The CL match-ups are forced, way too small to yield accurate results, and a bitch to track the "mini-wars" contained therein. They also include map restrictions that apply to other challenges. So within each mini-challenge you can only use a map once. So by playing a clan earlier you have a wider range of maps to choose. Thus, the later games are not entirely reflective of the strength of your clan since you were map limited by the tournament structure.

Everyone likes the F400 because it pops out rankings that seem right. Which is fine with us. We are glad that it seems to work for everyone. However, if you really look into it, you will see real shortcomings of a formula like this when you start tracking different types of events using only one formula.

My advice would be to go through every CL event and determine when each "mini-war" ended to accurately get your results. However, since everyone's results would be skewed equally, perhaps pick the end date of the last one to end overall and use that result for EVERY "mini-war" for that certain event, at that level. Then your results may be skewed, but all done so equally, especially with the decay factor coming into play.
:twisted: ChemE :twisted: Praetor
Image
братья в рукоятках
I ♥ ++The Legion++
User avatar
Lieutenant chemefreak
Clan Director
Clan Director
 
Posts: 3275
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:30 pm
Location: Columbus (Franklin Park), Ohio
Medals: 76
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Bot Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (7) General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (15) Tournament Contribution (3)
General Contribution (6)

Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby IcePack on Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:32 am

Ok - I think I see where this is going :) let me use one quick RL example to clarify something.

EMP LHDD 8 4 04/01/12
TFFS MM 8 4 04/01/12
LHDD LEG 6 6 04/01/12
EMP MM 10 2 04/01/12

These CL matches/dates I have to assume come from "completed" clan area date. Was those dates (and many other CL result posted on 4/1/12) the actual date of completion or when it was moved to completed?

I understand the war / tournament bit, I just need to know how you handled things like this example so I can go back and accurately adjust the database to reflect what it should reflect.

IcePack
Interested in clans? Check out the Fallen!

Image

Please contact chapcrap if my game times run low.
User avatar
Major IcePack
Beta Tester Extraordinaire
Beta Tester Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 5565
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:42 pm
Location: California
Medals: 94
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (4) Beta Map Achievement (1) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (9)
General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (15) Challenge Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (11) General Contribution (8)

Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby IcePack on Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:35 am

MichelSableHeart...So basically.....

-----

Yes, basically.
Interested in clans? Check out the Fallen!

Image

Please contact chapcrap if my game times run low.
User avatar
Major IcePack
Beta Tester Extraordinaire
Beta Tester Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 5565
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:42 pm
Location: California
Medals: 94
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (4) Beta Map Achievement (1) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (9)
General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (15) Challenge Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (11) General Contribution (8)

Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby chemefreak on Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:05 pm

IcePack wrote:Ok - I think I see where this is going :) let me use one quick RL example to clarify something.

EMP LHDD 8 4 04/01/12
TFFS MM 8 4 04/01/12
LHDD LEG 6 6 04/01/12
EMP MM 10 2 04/01/12

These CL matches/dates I have to assume come from "completed" clan area date. Was those dates (and many other CL result posted on 4/1/12) the actual date of completion or when it was moved to completed?

I understand the war / tournament bit, I just need to know how you handled things like this example so I can go back and accurately adjust the database to reflect what it should reflect.

IcePack


Those dates appear to be the date that the entire thread was moved to completed. It is not the date any of those ended.
:twisted: ChemE :twisted: Praetor
Image
братья в рукоятках
I ♥ ++The Legion++
User avatar
Lieutenant chemefreak
Clan Director
Clan Director
 
Posts: 3275
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:30 pm
Location: Columbus (Franklin Park), Ohio
Medals: 76
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Bot Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (7) General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (15) Tournament Contribution (3)
General Contribution (6)

Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby IcePack on Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:14 pm

Ok. I will hve to go back and adjust some CL stuff then in database.
Please know that for August report this could cause some minor changes in scoring and decays so July - August wont necessarily "fit" together perfectly.

IcePack
Interested in clans? Check out the Fallen!

Image

Please contact chapcrap if my game times run low.
User avatar
Major IcePack
Beta Tester Extraordinaire
Beta Tester Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 5565
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:42 pm
Location: California
Medals: 94
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (4) Beta Map Achievement (1) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (9)
General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (15) Challenge Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (11) General Contribution (8)

Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby Gunn217 on Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:25 pm

The impact of those miniwars will be so miniscule that going back and keeping up with the date of each completed war will be more work than it's worth. At least when I was doing it.
Image
User avatar
Major Gunn217
 
Posts: 790
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:07 pm
Location: Bay of Pigs
Medals: 101
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (3)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (3) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (27) General Achievement (4) Clan Achievement (13)
Tournament Contribution (12) General Contribution (1)

PreviousNext

Return to Clans

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Agent 86 and 1 guest

cron
Login