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Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby betiko on Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:34 pm

so basically when we (the pack) faced OTP in CL and won 7-5 we lost points and they went up? not sure it's totally fair either.
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Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby IcePack on Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:45 pm

betiko wrote:so basically when we (the pack) faced OTP in CL and won 7-5 we lost points and they went up? not sure it's totally fair either.


By definition you "should" have won by a larger margin. The point gain / loss is minimal.
The way the actual 400 works if the number 1 clan played the bottom clan they'd auto lose points, FD adjusted it so this wasn't the case and is minimized quite a bit.

If clan played Fallen for example, you would be "expected" to win by a good margin.
If the last place clan played first and the war ends 21-20 in favor of #1 - you don't think it's fair to say that last place performed well and achieved "above" their score and vice versa?

These are things it considers. But for cases like PACK/OTP the effect is minimal (it was CL result which is already toned down) and the score was close, so again minimized.

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Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby IcePack on Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:48 pm

Gunn217 wrote:The impact of those miniwars will be so miniscule that going back and keeping up with the date of each completed war will be more work than it's worth. At least when I was doing it.


It is fairly minimal, but it does alter quite a few results minimally which ultimately could adjust a few positions. Since I got the time il just research and readjust finished dates to reflect the best / most accurate possible score the F400 can come up with.

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Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby Keefie on Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:53 pm

By way of an example Ice could you show the impact of the recent CC3 war between HH and IA. We were ranked 20 something and IA 6th and the result was 23-18 to IA. So in my book HH performed better than the ranking would suggest.
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Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby IcePack on Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:56 pm

Keefie wrote:By way of an example Ice could you show the impact of the recent CC3 war between HH and IA. We were ranked 20 something and IA 6th and the result was 23-18 to IA. So in my book HH performed better than the ranking would suggest.


Sure I can do that. While I have plenty of time to help people analyze the system recreating each war / scenario is fun and all...but let's try not going crazy ;) lol

To make it easier on me if you could provide me the date that specific war your requesting took place I'd appreciate it.

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Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby Keefie on Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:03 pm

Forget that, it will be in next months update as it finished on 01/07
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Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby IcePack on Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:16 pm

Ok 10-4
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Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby IcePack on Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:24 pm

Is there any desire within the clan community to see this ranking become more of a "real time" ranking and less of a monthly ranking? While it couldn't be daily, I could update it more often than monthly if there was some desire to change.

"real time"
Weekly
Bi weekly
Monthly?
Etc

The idea can be batted around for a bit, just mentioning / testing the water.

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Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby BGtheBrain on Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:30 pm

IcePack wrote:Is there any desire within the clan community to see this ranking become more of a "real time" ranking and less of a monthly ranking? While it couldn't be daily, I could update it more often than monthly if there was some desire to change.

"real time"
Weekly
Bi weekly
Monthly?
Etc

The idea can be batted around for a bit, just mentioning / testing the water.

IcePack

Weekly would be awesome...
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Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby swimmerdude99 on Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:07 pm

Weekly would be great!!! :)
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Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby Sniper08 on Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:19 pm

no need to burn yourself out , 2 weeks would be great but im equally fine every month.
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Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby IcePack on Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:20 pm

I'm not sure where the feelings of burn out are coming from, but this is something I enjoy doing. Not going to cause any burn out here.

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Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby Sniper08 on Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:30 pm

IcePack wrote:I'm not sure where the feelings of burn out are coming from, but this is something I enjoy doing. Not going to cause any burn out here.

IcePack


im thinking long term , so far FD and gunn have given the rankings up after a few months of updating it ,if that trend continues you'll be giving it up after a while so instead of you doing it every week keep the status quo. if you commit to doing it every week and lets say you miss it a few times or something goes wrong or ppl start to criticize how your running it then enthusiasm drops and it becomes more of a pain to do it rather than a pleasure. you may enjoy doing this sort of stuff but when ppl get on your back about it you'll find it less enjoyable
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Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby IcePack on Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:38 pm

Point taken. But I doubt I'll burn out, I enjoy it and even of people only wanted it monthly I'd probably still do it weekly for my own enjoyment. I just wouldn't go thru the trouble of posting it :) Ultimately I am doing it for my enjoyment, posting it ere for others is a secondary benefit. I'll love feedback and corrections, but complainers will always be there. I understand that.

I get a lot (most) of my enjoyment from clan and tournaments, and clans really spark my interest. If I could do more within the clan area I probably would.

Anyway...:) don't worry about my burn out.

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Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby Dako on Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:56 pm

Thank you IcePack for taking over this projects. Make updates whenever you feel you have free time for that.
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Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby Gunn217 on Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:10 pm

IcePack wrote:Point taken. But I doubt I'll burn out, I enjoy it and even of people only wanted it monthly I'd probably still do it weekly for my own enjoyment. I just wouldn't go thru the trouble of posting it :) Ultimately I am doing it for my enjoyment, posting it ere for others is a secondary benefit. I'll love feedback and corrections, but complainers will always be there. I understand that.

I get a lot (most) of my enjoyment from clan and tournaments, and clans really spark my interest. If I could do more within the clan area I probably would.

Anyway...:) don't worry about my burn out.

IcePack


It's really not much of a burden. I only did it so that it wouldn't die and didn't like the fact that I couldn't answer questions about it since I didn't understand how it worked. Since Ice enjoys this kind of thing and he obviously knows WAY more about it than I ever did I'm sure he can keep it going longterm.

People will bitch no matter what. He can handle it.
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Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby chapcrap on Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:11 pm

I've always felt like monthly was a lot. Can we just do it quarterly?
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Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby BGtheBrain on Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:23 pm

chapcrap wrote:I've always felt like monthly was a lot. Can we just do it quarterly?

....quarterly as in every 15 minutes
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Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby IcePack on Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:38 pm

Gunn217 - even though I'm interested you were key in keeping this going. Even though I know the algo a bit better perhaps I would have never been able to take this over without your help the past few weeks to understand FD's system.

I'll try updating the 1st and 15th each month and go from there. Cheme I also will try doing something as well that might appease you a bit better ;)

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Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby IcePack on Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:22 am

FYI my first update will be 08-01-12 to allow for time to comb thru the results and try to get best information I possibly can within it the first time. After which, I'll try seeing how the 1st and 15th work out.

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Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby chapcrap on Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:37 am

IcePack wrote:FYI my first update will be 08-01-12 to allow for time to comb thru the results and try to get best information I possibly can within it the first time. After which, I'll try seeing how the 1st and 15th work out.

IcePack

Already breaking promises. Just like my last girlfriend. :(
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Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby IcePack on Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:06 am

chapcrap wrote:
IcePack wrote:FYI my first update will be 08-01-12 to allow for time to comb thru the results and try to get best information I possibly can within it the first time. After which, I'll try seeing how the 1st and 15th work out.

IcePack

Already breaking promises. Just like my last girlfriend. :(


I never had problem getting her to keep her promise ;)
Last edited by IcePack on Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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12:11:16 ‹Swifte› good thing we have the beta program to weed all these problems out
12:15:00 * IcePack joins Social
12:15:35 ‹Swifte› well that's just bad timing
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Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby betiko on Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:29 am

thanks a lot for what you're doing icepack!

regarding our conversation: if we met lotz or MB and won by a small margin well yes, i think it deserves a point dropping.
But then new clans that come out have not to be considered as such; for example fallen, OTP or LHDD.
If a clan is really trying to stabilize up in the ranking, he would not accept a challenge against a clan full of hot shots just because they are new and even beating them would make the clan regress in the ranking. In case of CL4, anything can happen in a 12 game skirmish, and even a kort vs lotz can end up 7-5.

We've beaten RA for the CC3 with a very comfortable margin, I wonder if it will make us win poins or not..
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Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby IcePack on Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:42 am

Ultimately those clans start and are considered "mid ranked" at start.
I can't step in and start one clan at 1100 and another at 900, because then its all judgement calls instead of facts and results.
In the end the "new clan" wars will always be a little fickle at first but they should increase / decrease eventually to where they ultimately belong.

Your winning wasn't the problem, you just didn't win by a large enough margin.
Last edited by IcePack on Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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12:11:16 ‹Swifte› good thing we have the beta program to weed all these problems out
12:15:00 * IcePack joins Social
12:15:35 ‹Swifte› well that's just bad timing
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Re: [New] F400 Ranking [Updated 07-01-12]

Postby Leehar on Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:45 am

betiko wrote:thanks a lot for what you're doing icepack!

regarding our conversation: if we met lotz or MB and won by a small margin well yes, i think it deserves a point dropping.
But then new clans that come out have not to be considered as such; for example fallen, OTP or LHDD.
If a clan is really trying to stabilize up in the ranking, he would not accept a challenge against a clan full of hot shots just because they are new and even beating them would make the clan regress in the ranking. In case of CL4, anything can happen in a 12 game skirmish, and even a kort vs lotz can end up 7-5.

We've beaten RA for the CC3 with a very comfortable margin, I wonder if it will make us win poins or not..

kort v lotz was 12-0 ;)
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