F400 Ranking [Nov 15th Updated!]

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Re: F400 Ranking [Updated 04-15-13]

Postby Chariot of Fire on Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:51 pm

Ice....if ACE came in at 1000 on the F400, by what score would TOFU need to beat them in a 41 game challenge in order to not lose points?
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Re: F400 Ranking [Updated 04-15-13]

Postby shoop76 on Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:06 pm

Is it correct to say that a new clan starts out at 1000 this equivalent to 21st on the last rankings. If this clan is actually of a lesser ability than that staying score wouldn't it be a huge advantage for the clan that plays them first.

Basically, if a clan plays all new clans that will in all likelihood be bottom feeders in the future and rack up easy wins against them isn't that in a way inflating a clan's ranking.
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Re: F400 Ranking [Updated 04-15-13]

Postby ahunda on Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:32 pm

Yes, that is correct. But there are limits to that kind of practice. Because the formula also takes into account the score difference between two clans: The greater the difference, the greater the win margin needs to be for the higher ranked clan to gain any points at all.

If you go back 2-3 pages in this thread, you´ll find CoF complaining, that TOFU actually lost points on the F400 Ranking for beating a bottom clan 9-3 or something. Because of the huge score difference between them, TOFU would have needed to beat them even higher to still gain points for the F400.

It´s a bit like the CC scoreboard in that regard. Once you reach General (or Brig, or whatever), you actually need to beat a Cook 9 times out of 10 to merely break even in points.

So yeah, you might be able to artificially inflate your score by beating up weak opponents for a while, but on long term you´ll have to beat those weak opponents by an ever increasing margin to still gain points, until you reach a point, where you simply can´t do it anymore.
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Re: F400 Ranking [Updated 04-15-13]

Postby Dako on Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:30 pm

If I were ACE I'd like a new clean slate to start from. Not some past results of AOC or Empire.
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Re: F400 Ranking [Updated 04-15-13]

Postby Chariot of Fire on Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:19 pm

It was 10-2. We had to beat them 11-1 to not lose points, a score which I find unrealistic.

Re ACE - if they do start with a clean slate then it's rather unfair for the clans who have to meet them, as I expect it will adversely affect their F400 ranking.
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Re: F400 Ranking [Updated 04-15-13]

Postby Dako on Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:35 pm

Yes, it will be unfair. But fair choice is not always the right choice.
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Re: F400 Ranking [Updated 04-15-13]

Postby Fewnix on Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:49 am

I think this discussion about ranking systems supports high ranked clans not being eager to play low ranked clans and the use of qualifying rounds in the Leagues? :?:
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Re: F400 Ranking [Updated 04-15-13]

Postby ViperOverLord on Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:11 am

Chariot of Fire wrote:It was 10-2. We had to beat them 11-1 to not lose points, a score which I find unrealistic.

Re ACE - if they do start with a clean slate then it's rather unfair for the clans who have to meet them, as I expect it will adversely affect their F400 ranking.


Conversely, how is it fair to the clans that they are automatically surpassing in the rankings? Seems to me that you earn a ranking and are not given one.
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Re: F400 Ranking [Updated 04-15-13]

Postby Chariot of Fire on Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:53 am

ViperOverLord wrote:
Chariot of Fire wrote:It was 10-2. We had to beat them 11-1 to not lose points, a score which I find unrealistic.

Re ACE - if they do start with a clean slate then it's rather unfair for the clans who have to meet them, as I expect it will adversely affect their F400 ranking.


Conversely, how is it fair to the clans that they are automatically surpassing in the rankings? Seems to me that you earn a ranking and are not given one.


Two clans have been removed from the rankings. Net result....the majority of clans have moved up two places (as AoC & Empire were ranked 3rd & 7th respectively). And now the idea is being mooted that the AoC/Emp merger be re-listed at a starting point. So how exactly are clans losing out in comparison to where they stood prior to ACE emerging?

Your concept of fair and that of myself obviously differ greatly. I hope you get drawn against them in CC4 then you'll know what I mean (if they are to start on 1000).
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Re: F400 Ranking [SPECIAL CC4 UPDATE]

Postby IcePack on Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:22 am

This just in, special news bulletin...

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Re: F400 Ranking [Updated 04-15-13]

Postby ViperOverLord on Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:31 am

Chariot of Fire wrote:
ViperOverLord wrote:
Chariot of Fire wrote:It was 10-2. We had to beat them 11-1 to not lose points, a score which I find unrealistic.

Re ACE - if they do start with a clean slate then it's rather unfair for the clans who have to meet them, as I expect it will adversely affect their F400 ranking.


Conversely, how is it fair to the clans that they are automatically surpassing in the rankings? Seems to me that you earn a ranking and are not given one.


Two clans have been removed from the rankings. Net result....the majority of clans have moved up two places (as AoC & Empire were ranked 3rd & 7th respectively). And now the idea is being mooted that the AoC/Emp merger be re-listed at a starting point. So how exactly are clans losing out in comparison to where they stood prior to ACE emerging?

Your concept of fair and that of myself obviously differ greatly. I hope you get drawn against them in CC4 then you'll know what I mean (if they are to start on 1000).


I see your point. But clans should have to earn their keep. If a new clan is created then it should be a clean break.

Also, even though clans have moved up in the rankings due to the break-up / merger; they still shouldn't be relegated to be less than the new clan, provided they are above the starting point, themselves.

And, you wouldn't be worried about playing them in the first round if the CDs followed protocol and abided by the two challenge rule. And based on the hybrid system instituted, you would possibly be playing them anyways, unless you're saying they'd be a top eight seed. So, you want newly formed clans to merit a top ten ranking in a system which is explicitly based upon results and not reputation?
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Re: F400 Ranking [SPECIAL CC4 UPDATE]

Postby crazy4catnip on Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:04 pm

In the recent SOH / UM8 war, this thread incorrectly lists SOH as a 21-20 winner. UM8 won the war, 21-20. Please fix your war listings before the next update. Thanks!

Link to the war: viewtopic.php?uid=461955&f=441&t=185102

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Re: F400 Ranking [SPECIAL CC4 UPDATE]

Postby chemefreak on Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:33 pm

ICE - THANK YOU VERY MUCH!
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Re: F400 Ranking [SPECIAL CC4 UPDATE]

Postby IcePack on Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:14 am

crazy4catnip wrote:In the recent SOH / UM8 war, this thread incorrectly lists SOH as a 21-20 winner. UM8 won the war, 21-20. Please fix your war listings before the next update. Thanks!

Link to the war: viewtopic.php?uid=461955&f=441&t=185102

-- crazy4catnip


Thanks for the catch, this has been corrected in the database. Updated standings below.

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Re: F400 Ranking [Updated 04-15-13]

Postby eddie2 on Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:14 pm

chemefreak wrote:Everyone should remember that Ice does this as a volunteer and we should all appreciate his hard work. Also, remember that for the Cup, only the Top 16 clans that enter will be seeded. The rest will be put into pools and some will have play-ins (randomly selected) and some will not.


i think leehars first appointment should be icepack..

nicky runs cdf
chemefreak runs medals war results.
icepack runs clan ranking

give him a colored badge for the work he does and show some respect for the time he spends.. he even done a 2nd update especially for the ccup4 1 week after his quarterly update...

think of it another way he might even update monthly if he had a cc team position :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: F400 Ranking [Updated 04-15-13]

Postby chapcrap on Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:19 pm

eddie2 wrote:
chemefreak wrote:Everyone should remember that Ice does this as a volunteer and we should all appreciate his hard work. Also, remember that for the Cup, only the Top 16 clans that enter will be seeded. The rest will be put into pools and some will have play-ins (randomly selected) and some will not.


i think leehars first appointment should be icepack..

nicky runs cdf
chemefreak runs medals war results.
icepack runs clan ranking

give him a colored badge for the work he does and show some respect for the time he spends.. he even done a 2nd update especially for the ccup4 1 week after his quarterly update...

think of it another way he might even update monthly if he had a cc team position :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

This discussion shouldn't really go here, but what about the other CDs?

Also, he has been doing updates twice a month for a while now, are you under a rock, talking about quarterly updates?
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Re: F400 Ranking [Updated 04-15-13]

Postby chemefreak on Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:20 pm

eddie2 wrote:
chemefreak wrote:Everyone should remember that Ice does this as a volunteer and we should all appreciate his hard work. Also, remember that for the Cup, only the Top 16 clans that enter will be seeded. The rest will be put into pools and some will have play-ins (randomly selected) and some will not.


i think leehars first appointment should be icepack..

nicky runs cdf
chemefreak runs medals war results.
icepack runs clan ranking

give him a colored badge for the work he does and show some respect for the time he spends.. he even done a 2nd update especially for the ccup4 1 week after his quarterly update...

think of it another way he might even update monthly if he had a cc team position :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


We would never do that to ICE! As soon as we appoint him, you would be asshole to him! Well...more of an asshole.
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Re: F400 Ranking [SPECIAL CC4 UPDATE]

Postby jetsetwilly on Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:26 pm

lol, pity the poor sod who gets a cd slot and then has to listen to Eddie bang on about lord knows what every day !
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Re: F400 Ranking [SPECIAL CC4 UPDATE]

Postby chemefreak on Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:29 pm

jetsetwilly wrote:lol, pity the poor sod who gets a cd slot and then has to listen to Eddie bang on about lord knows what every day !


No shit. BTW, we miss our jet....
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Re: F400 Ranking [Updated 04-15-13]

Postby IcePack on Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:36 pm

eddie2 wrote:give him a colored badge for the work he does and show some respect for the time he spends.. he even done a 2nd update especially for the ccup4 1 week after his quarterly update...

think of it another way he might even update monthly if he had a cc team position :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


I have done twice monthly updates for awhile, unless its a crazy / problematic month then its once. This month, will have 3 updates instead of 2.
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Re: F400 Ranking [SPECIAL CC4 UPDATE]

Postby crispybits on Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:22 pm

jetsetwilly wrote:lol, pity the poor sod who gets a cd slot and then has to listen to Eddie bang on about lord knows what every day !


Simple, make eddie a CD, you can just outvote him in CD matters and then he can't rage at the system cos he'll be part of it :lol:

And to keep this post on topic - nice work with the extra update there icepack :)
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Re: F400 Ranking [SPECIAL CC4 UPDATE]

Postby Foxglove on Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:55 pm

There are still people who don't have eddie foed? Whatthe?
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Re: F400 Ranking [SPECIAL CC4 UPDATE]

Postby Dako on Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:05 pm

Foxglove wrote:There are still people who don't have eddie foed? Whatthe?

But if you actually read his posts and decipher all that he writes it makes sense a lot of times. I quite like the guy.
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Re: F400 Ranking [SPECIAL CC4 UPDATE]

Postby Foxglove on Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:11 pm

Dako wrote:
Foxglove wrote:There are still people who don't have eddie foed? Whatthe?

But if you actually read his posts and decipher all that he writes it makes sense a lot of times.


Perhaps it makes sense in the half of his posts in which he doesn't blatantly lie, make things up, or exaggerate. But I so expect him to be untruthful that I am completely unable to believe a single word he says.
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Re: F400 Ranking [SPECIAL CC4 UPDATE]

Postby Dako on Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:22 pm

Foxglove wrote:Perhaps it makes sense in the half of his posts in which he doesn't blatantly lie, make things up, or exaggerate. But I so expect him to be untruthful that I am completely unable to believe a single word he says.

This is exactly how I feel about josko.
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