The Official Clan Sitting Rules (Old Version)

Abandoned challenges and other old information.

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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby eddie2 on Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:35 pm

thankyou nicky,

you keep on saying must post in each game but for holidays or time away if something comes up can we not just post it in the challenge threads, when competitions are running full throttle some players can be in up to 10 - 15 games and would be easier if you could just post there with the players return date and who is sitting for him.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby greenoaks on Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:19 pm

eddie2 wrote:thankyou nicky,

you keep on saying must post in each game but for holidays or time away if something comes up can we not just post it in the challenge threads, when competitions are running full throttle some players can be in up to 10 - 15 games and would be easier if you could just post there with the players return date and who is sitting for him.

no, post it in the games i am playing. not in a thread somewhere else i am not going to read
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby IcePack on Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:27 pm

eddie2 wrote:thankyou nicky,

you keep on saying must post in each game but for holidays or time away if something comes up can we not just post it in the challenge threads, when competitions are running full throttle some players can be in up to 10 - 15 games and would be easier if you could just post there with the players return date and who is sitting for him.


Some players never look @ forums and would never know the turns are being sat. Copy and paste isn't THAT hard
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby agentcom on Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:13 pm

IcePack wrote:
eddie2 wrote:thankyou nicky,

you keep on saying must post in each game but for holidays or time away if something comes up can we not just post it in the challenge threads, when competitions are running full throttle some players can be in up to 10 - 15 games and would be easier if you could just post there with the players return date and who is sitting for him.


Some players never look @ forums and would never know the turns are being sat. Copy and paste isn't THAT hard


Yeah, but for long term absences, the people who actually need to know, i.e. the war organizers, would know. I would think that would suffice. But I can see how this would make it a little harder for the clan mods running their random checks, because they would have to check games AND any current war forum. That could be a pain for them.

If I was sitting for someone, I would think it would be easier just to post in chat. So, I would do that and don't really care whether I could post in the thread instead.

Funkyterrance wrote:I'm confused by the term "witch hunt" which is being used so liberally in regards to this subject. Why is trying to prevent abuse which has been proven to have happened in the past considered a witch hunt? Witch hunts are considered overreactive because witches as portrayed historically don't exist but rule benders do exist. I don't think anyone is actually arguing that someone be banned for a minor infraction unless it's habitual/intentional.


I was saying I'm glad this IS NOT looking like a witch hunt. It could be one if they put in a bunch of strict rules that caught the innocent as well as the guilty. That's pretty much the definition of a witch hunt. But it looks like they're very much trying to avoid punishing innocent behavior.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Funkyterrance on Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:24 am

agentcom wrote:I was saying I'm glad this IS NOT looking like a witch hunt. It could be one if they put in a bunch of strict rules that caught the innocent as well as the guilty. That's pretty much the definition of a witch hunt. But it looks like they're very much trying to avoid punishing innocent behavior.


Yeah tbh, I wasn't referring to your post but I can see how it must have looked that way lol. That's a boo-boo on my part. Your use of the term just reminded me.
Earlier in this thread it was implied that these new rules were a complete overreaction and more or less stirring up a "witch hunt". Ya know, farmers with pitchforks and all that jazz.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Nicky15 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:52 pm

eddie2 wrote:thankyou nicky,

you keep on saying must post in each game but for holidays or time away if something comes up can we not just post it in the challenge threads, when competitions are running full throttle some players can be in up to 10 - 15 games and would be easier if you could just post there with the players return date and who is sitting for him.


Yes this is fine. Something like. eddie2 taking turns for player A. He is away for the week., the player A posts when he is back. Totally acceptable and a good idea for everyone.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby JustCallMeStupid on Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:14 pm

Where are the old rules that say you cant cover someones turn if they have 4 hrs left on their turn and they messaged u earlier in the day that if the turn gets under 4 hours to take the turn and follow any team instructions in chat? Thanks for the link. U can post it on my wall too if you feel like it.
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Re: The Offical Clan Sitting Rules

Postby GoranZ on Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:08 pm

Nicky15 wrote:
GoranZ wrote:Example: Majority of my clanmates are from US time zones so now I have huge problems when it comes of emergency supervision from 9 AM to 2 PM. And now I have to find new sitters who are compatible to my playing style, and are from my time zone, and preferably from my clan.

I am having a hard time following your argument here. Surely these sitters in different time zones would not have caught your missed turns as it is, before the rules were even implemented. Or are you saying you should have blanket permission for someone to take your turn 8 hours before it expired for example, how do justify they would have known you were not going to make it ?

8 A.M. my time(11 P.M. for my sitter), I have clan games coming in in 3 and 5 hours, out of a sudden i don't have internet connection and I'm getting info that I wont have in the next 8 hours. Currently I was able to send SMS to my clanmates and they could have supervised me... with new set of rules this will be illegal unless they are awake all night!

Edit: Solved, ty

crispybits wrote:
greenoaks wrote:it seems to me a lot of players believe missing turns is the end of the world and sitters are a god given right.

perhaps all account sitting should be banned. no exceptions. you take your turn or it is missed.


+1

The simplest way to solve the problem imo

Yes it will be unpopular, so what? In the short term the site loses a few members (a decent chunk of which will be members who are fairly loose about following the rules anyway - aka CHEATS). In the long term there is no controversy, no big arguments, and the players that are left that are willing to play by the rules can play based on honest individual merit.

So if you guys are sick you don't go to job, no one from your colleagues is replacing you? I think that you should turn ON your brains from time to time.
Last edited by GoranZ on Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Offical Clan Sitting Rules

Postby agentcom on Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:33 pm

GoranZ wrote:
Nicky15 wrote:
GoranZ wrote:Example: Majority of my clanmates are from US time zones so now I have huge problems when it comes of emergency supervision from 9 AM to 2 PM. And now I have to find new sitters who are compatible to my playing style, and are from my time zone, and preferably from my clan.

I am having a hard time following your argument here. Surely these sitters in different time zones would not have caught your missed turns as it is, before the rules were even implemented. Or are you saying you should have blanket permission for someone to take your turn 8 hours before it expired for example, how do justify they would have known you were not going to make it ?

8 A.M. my time(11 P.M. for my sitter), I have clan games coming in in 3 and 5 hours, out of a sudden i don't have internet connection and I'm getting info that I wont have in the next 8 hours. Currently I was able to send SMS to my clanmates and they could have supervised me... with new set of rules this will be illegal unless they are awake all night!

No, you are allowed to text someone and have them cover for you. That was one of my questions and it seems like that then falls under the normal sitting rules of being able to cover you until you come back. It's my understanding that the sitter doesn't have to wait for each turn to get under an hour. I'm sure someone can quote one of the mods on this.
Nicky15 wrote:
One very specific question: Is it CD team job to propose sitting rules? according to me NO.
Whose Job is then? The Cds consulted with a group of members from across the clan world, involving clans from every level. The Cd team consulted with Admin and multi hunters who ultimately signed off on these rules.

How will you enforce these new rules... you will ask C&A team to check games and compare times?
How will you enforce these rules to a sitter that is not part of any clan(he doesn't event care what is happening in clan world)? So new clan rules wont apply for that sitter, or you plan to punish the sitting player for something he didn't do?

P.S. Since I do not agree with these new rules(unless they are changed) I don't have any plans to follow them. I will ask my sitter to not write down in game chat when I was supervised and I will let CD team to figure out when(and if) I was supervised(I don't plan to ask someone to stay awake for a single minute not all night). Feel free to catch me and punish me according to the offense I will make.


They just said you're responsible for your sitter's actions. So either tell anyone who watches your games not to take turns until they're down to an hour unless you've told them you needed to be sat. In either case (whether advance notice or not) let your sitter know to post in chat that they did the turn.

Which brings me to ... I do hope there is a grace period for the announcement. If someone sat my account and forgot to post, a lot of times I will post when I get back that so-and-so took the last two turns. Also, sometimes people accidentally post their announcement into team chat and a teammate who notices it relays the message into public chat. I think all this falls under the common sense aspect, but I just want to make sure.
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Re: The Offical Clan Sitting Rules

Postby GoranZ on Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:55 pm

agentcom wrote:
GoranZ wrote:
Nicky15 wrote:
GoranZ wrote:Example: Majority of my clanmates are from US time zones so now I have huge problems when it comes of emergency supervision from 9 AM to 2 PM. And now I have to find new sitters who are compatible to my playing style, and are from my time zone, and preferably from my clan.

I am having a hard time following your argument here. Surely these sitters in different time zones would not have caught your missed turns as it is, before the rules were even implemented. Or are you saying you should have blanket permission for someone to take your turn 8 hours before it expired for example, how do justify they would have known you were not going to make it ?

8 A.M. my time(11 P.M. for my sitter), I have clan games coming in in 3 and 5 hours, out of a sudden i don't have internet connection and I'm getting info that I wont have in the next 8 hours. Currently I was able to send SMS to my clanmates and they could have supervised me... with new set of rules this will be illegal unless they are awake all night!

No, you are allowed to text someone and have them cover for you. That was one of my questions and it seems like that then falls under the normal sitting rules of being able to cover you until you come back. It's my understanding that the sitter doesn't have to wait for each turn to get under an hour. I'm sure someone can quote one of the mods on this.

Not verification here... on the first page. I was just reading 15 pages.
How will CD team verify SMS or skype? (easy Photoshopable)
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Re: The Offical Clan Sitting Rules

Postby agentcom on Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:59 pm

GoranZ wrote:Not verification here... on the first page. I was just reading 15 pages.
How will CD team verify SMS or skype? (easy Photoshopable)


They said that they are looking for patterns. It doesn't sound like they are going to be CSI'ing every sat turn or anything.
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Re: The Offical Clan Sitting Rules

Postby chapcrap on Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:03 am

agentcom wrote:
GoranZ wrote:Not verification here... on the first page. I was just reading 15 pages.
How will CD team verify SMS or skype? (easy Photoshopable)


They said that they are looking for patterns. It doesn't sound like they are going to be CSI'ing every sat turn or anything.

Goran, agent is right here.

These rules are more restrictive for everyone, but they are not out of our normal scope. The only great restriction that we previously did not have is the one hour rule for emergencies. That is completely manageable. These rules will do more to protect the integrity of our wars than any damage they will inflict. I promise you that.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Koganosi on Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:52 am

Rule 2.

Emergency sitting can only be done 1 hour prio missing the turn.

I myself find myself in the clan VDLL, where I like it have good friends and loads of fun. This clan fundemantal basis is talking Dutch, wich pretty much means only having Dutch and Belgium people. Wich we currently only have. This means my turns wich end between 00:00 and 7:00 GMT+1. Cannot nearly be covered. How would you guys fair with this. Or do I have to try to friend an american friend who can sit for me? I really think this can hurt our clan in taking turns during Clan Wars.

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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby jbadbear on Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:31 pm

it would seem to me that there really only needs to be one rule. all absences must be stated in game chat and any deviance from establish CC rules for Clan play must be agreed upon by all clans involved in the game. otherwise normal CC rules apply which already includes play your own games.

why make this complicated? besides the cheaters will just use different IPs to log in from. Home IP -- mobile hot spot, neighbors open wireless. It comes down to trust. the IP sweep will just snare people in the same apartment or house or building that play fairly.
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Re: The Offical Clan Sitting Rules

Postby JustCallMeStupid on Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:20 pm

chapcrap wrote:These rules are more restrictive for everyone, but they are not out of our normal scope. The only great restriction that we previously did not have is the one hour rule for emergencies. That is completely manageable. These rules will do more to protect the integrity of our wars than any damage they will inflict. I promise you that.


First of all, you cant promise this at all. Second the only way this holds somewhat true is if people just dont follow the rules and cover a teammates turn when there are 3 hrs left and they have to go to bed, or go to work, or whatever other thing they have that is more important then waiting near the computer for 2hrs and 01 minutes until they can comply with a silly rule.

Basically the rules will please 10% of people who are actually making a big deal of this enforcing it on everyone instead of just those abusing coverings, it will mostly annoy 40% of players who actually abide by it, 49% of players probably will care less play like normal and cover turns on such rare occasions that they will never get caught for braking the rule since they aren't doing it maliciously or frequently, and the 1% or less who have been braking the rules all of the time will either find a way around it or possibly get caught and maybe just make a new account or something (and yes I pulled all these numbers out of my ass but I am guessing they are probably close to accurate).

This whole system reminds me of the DRM protection of music, or how all the software companies protect the hell out of their software only to piss off regular consumers who pay for the software meanwhile hackers just hack it anyways and bypass the security then hand it out for free to anyone who looks for it.

jbadbear wrote:it would seem to me that there really only needs to be one rule. all absences must be stated in game chat and any deviance from establish CC rules for Clan play must be agreed upon by all clans involved in the game. otherwise normal CC rules apply which already includes play your own games.

why make this complicated? besides the cheaters will just use different IPs to log in from. Home IP -- mobile hot spot, neighbors open wireless. It comes down to trust. the IP sweep will just snare people in the same apartment or house or building that play fairly.

+1 =D> simple is better :)
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