Coaches Poll (Jan 1, 2014 Updated!)

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Re: BG Coaches Poll (03-01-13)

Postby chemefreak on Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:20 pm

BG pm'd me on a number of occasions but I never felt that I had the time to adequately put together a well thought out list. I figured it was better not to submit a ballot rather than make one up hastily. I will try to get to it next time.

I love these types of ranking systems. So subjective, but so close to the real thing! Cheers BG. Nice work.
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Re: BG Coaches Poll (03-01-13)

Postby Conchobar on Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:47 pm

Pointless & meaningless but well done anyway for wasting your own time. :roll:
It's a good thing I have a big supply of temazepam to help me sleep until the next vote... :---)
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Re: BG Coaches Poll (03-01-13)

Postby chemefreak on Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:23 pm

Conchobar wrote:Pointless & meaningless but well done anyway for wasting your own time. :roll:
It's a good thing I have a big supply of temazepam to help me sleep until the next vote... :---)


BG...this post is proof that your Coaches Poll is an awesome idea! I mean, if people spend this kind of time looking up medications (or perhaps checking their own :? ) then you know you have done something special! Cheers.
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Re: BG Coaches Poll (03-01-13)

Postby Bruceswar on Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:09 pm

As a voter here is what I had as of Feb 25th.

1. KORT
2. AOC
3. TOFU
4. AFOS
5. PACK
6. TSM
7. EMPIRE
8. IA
9. OSA
10. ID
11. OTP
12. PIG
13. TNC
14. MYTH
15. FALL
16. LOW
17. FOED
18. BFM
19. MD
20. 1ST REG

You might look at these and ask why TOFU is below AOC, but looking at the results... AOC has been to 2 Clan League finals in a row. TOFU has been to none. While TOFU has a lead on KORT right now the war is not over yet. TOFU has yet to make the finals of any major event. TOFU also got trashed by Empire in CC 2. I know this is about now, but AOC is slightly ahead right now in my opinion.
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Re: BG Coaches Poll (03-01-13)

Postby chapcrap on Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:58 pm

IR1SH ACE wrote:As a member of the PIG's...cant say im to happy about our rankin here, but not surprised as we always seem to get overlooked "never any love for a PIG"

but to be ranked 1 place above TNC and behind 1 New Clan and a few other Clans we have beaten in Wars/Skirmish says a lot....oh well good thing F400 is were its at....dont think we even had a PIG member in the votin process...whatever anyway, see next time

No offense, because I think you guys are good, but I don't see how you can be surprised with your spot. First of all, the new clan is ahead of you in F400 anyway. You're best win in the last year was to beat WAR (by 1) and they are currently ranked 27th. And there is no one ranked above you that you've beaten in a war. So, the indignation is a little much I think.
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Re: BG Coaches Poll (03-01-13)

Postby IR1SH ACE on Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:10 pm

chapcrap wrote:
IR1SH ACE wrote:As a member of the PIG's...cant say im to happy about our rankin here, but not surprised as we always seem to get overlooked "never any love for a PIG"

but to be ranked 1 place above TNC and behind 1 New Clan and a few other Clans we have beaten in Wars/Skirmish says a lot....oh well good thing F400 is were its at....dont think we even had a PIG member in the votin process...whatever anyway, see next time

No offense, because I think you guys are good, but I don't see how you can be surprised with your spot. First of all, the new clan is ahead of you in F400 anyway. You're best win in the last year was to beat WAR (by 1) and they are currently ranked 27th. And there is no one ranked above you that you've beaten in a war. So, the indignation is a little much I think.


No offense either, but everyone knows that because the way the F400 is calculated that New Clans that win 3/4 Wars in a row will always jump into the top 10 straight off the bat...PACK done it even PIG done it and im sure there will be more...the challenge is stayin there, and there is only one Clan in that whole top 20 rankin here and F400 that u guys have beaten and there ranked 17th here and 14th in F400....so u reckon ur rank is justified?

but then TNC beat u guys....so should they not be ranked above u???? dont get me wrong I know ur a good clan and sure u will earn ur place but this poll just shows how people just buy into the hype...which clan can PR its self the most

and although this was not a Full War...it was close enough... PIG v. AOC....and there ranked 3rd....go figure

anyway.....im done here, not that interested in pointless popularity contests....keep up the good work
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Re: BG Coaches Poll (03-01-13)

Postby IcePack on Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:20 pm

This is going to be fun I can tell :D
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Re: BG Coaches Poll (03-01-13)

Postby chapcrap on Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:21 pm

IR1SH ACE wrote:
chapcrap wrote:
IR1SH ACE wrote:As a member of the PIG's...cant say im to happy about our rankin here, but not surprised as we always seem to get overlooked "never any love for a PIG"

but to be ranked 1 place above TNC and behind 1 New Clan and a few other Clans we have beaten in Wars/Skirmish says a lot....oh well good thing F400 is were its at....dont think we even had a PIG member in the votin process...whatever anyway, see next time

No offense, because I think you guys are good, but I don't see how you can be surprised with your spot. First of all, the new clan is ahead of you in F400 anyway. You're best win in the last year was to beat WAR (by 1) and they are currently ranked 27th. And there is no one ranked above you that you've beaten in a war. So, the indignation is a little much I think.


No offense either, but everyone knows that because the way the F400 is calculated that New Clans that win 3/4 Wars in a row will always jump into the top 10 straight off the bat...PACK done it even PIG done it and im sure there will be more...the challenge is stayin there, and there is only one Clan in that whole top 20 rankin here and F400 that u guys have beaten and there ranked 17th here and 14th in F400....so u reckon ur rank is justified?

but then TNC beat u guys....so should they not be ranked above u???? dont get me wrong I know ur a good clan and sure u will earn ur place but this poll just shows how people just buy into the hype...which clan can PR its self the most

and although this was not a Full War...it was close enough... PIG v. AOC....and there ranked 3rd....go figure

anyway.....im done here, not that interested in pointless popularity contests....keep up the good work

Not sure why you attack the rank of my clan. I never tried to justify the rank of it. All I'm saying is that you, along with pretty much everyone else is ranked pretty close to where I would put them. I mean, would you feel better if we switched spots and you were above us? I'd be fine with that. And, if you want to try to stay in the top 10, then play higher ranked clans. Beating lower ranked clans isn't going to get you higher in any ranking system that I know of. I just don't understand the angst... How about you post what you think the ranks should be?
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Re: BG Coaches Poll (03-01-13)

Postby John Deere on Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:33 pm

IR1SH ACE wrote:
chapcrap wrote:
IR1SH ACE wrote:As a member of the PIG's...cant say im to happy about our rankin here, but not surprised as we always seem to get overlooked "never any love for a PIG"

but to be ranked 1 place above TNC and behind 1 New Clan and a few other Clans we have beaten in Wars/Skirmish says a lot....oh well good thing F400 is were its at....dont think we even had a PIG member in the votin process...whatever anyway, see next time

No offense, because I think you guys are good, but I don't see how you can be surprised with your spot. First of all, the new clan is ahead of you in F400 anyway. You're best win in the last year was to beat WAR (by 1) and they are currently ranked 27th. And there is no one ranked above you that you've beaten in a war. So, the indignation is a little much I think.


No offense either, but everyone knows that because the way the F400 is calculated that New Clans that win 3/4 Wars in a row will always jump into the top 10 straight off the bat...PACK done it even PIG done it and im sure there will be more...

Slow down Ace, it took the Pack a while to get into top ten, I think 8 wars or more.... And we won every one till then, we couldnt get a top 10 challenge to earn our way for nothing, we beat IA and Empire before we were top 10. But go ahead with your argument....
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Re: BG Coaches Poll (03-01-13)

Postby Conchobar on Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:12 am

chemefreak wrote:
Conchobar wrote:Pointless & meaningless but well done anyway for wasting your own time. :roll:
It's a good thing I have a big supply of temazepam to help me sleep until the next vote... :---)


BG...this post is proof that your Coaches Poll is an awesome idea! I mean, if people spend this kind of time looking up medications (or perhaps checking their own :? ) then you know you have done something special! Cheers.


Didn't spend any time whatsoever & wouldn't bother doing so. You yanks should know all about prescription drugs since they're so popular over there. You've heard of Valium or Xanax? Well Temapzepam is similar to those only better.
There's even a song about it. :lol:
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Re: BG Coaches Poll (03-01-13)

Postby IR1SH ACE on Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:09 pm

sorry chapcrap already said i was done with this topic....just came in to responded to this...

John Deere wrote:Slow down Ace, it took the Pack a while to get into top ten, I think 8 wars or more.... And we won every one till then, we couldnt get a top 10 challenge to earn our way for nothing, we beat IA and Empire before we were top 10. But go ahead with your argument....


u must have a short memory John, maybe u should read this forum again....goes on for few pages and sure it will refresh ur memory

Algorithm of 400 Clan Ranking

Summery: pack won 5 Wars and entered into F400 in 7th Place, lots of other high rank clans where not happy, Pack challenged all and Beat all who took that challenge, Pack deserved there spot in the end....this was the begin of what is now seen as anomaly in the F400 were a brand new clan can win 4/5 Wars in a row and enter very high in the rankin, this is also one of the reason why Fallen were not givin second seedin in the CL5... Clan League 5 Draw

jetsetwilly wrote:The 36 clans that have elected to participate will be ranked according to their CL4 results and placed in 6 pots. All the clans that didn't take part in CL4 will be placed in the final pot with the exception of the Fallen (Who are an obvious anomaly) who will be ranked 24 and will be placed in pot 4.


again i am not knockin either Clan here...just givin my opinion on this rankin. never wanted to waste my time on comin back in here

finally...ok i lied there is one thing i cant help but respond to Chap..
chapcrap wrote:And, if you want to try to stay in the top 10, then play higher ranked clans. Beating lower ranked clans isn't going to get you higher in any ranking system that I know of.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

think ur mixin us up with another Clan already in this rankin....perhaps if we were to beat... UM8, HH, AKA.....we could be a top 10 clan also...lol

think u should heed ur own words dude...
FALL vs VVV

end of, enjoy

P.S. i think brucewars top 20 a few posts above is more accurate then the overall rank here
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Re: BG Coaches Poll (03-01-13)

Postby IcePack on Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:44 pm

Hey Irish (since we all know you'll be back checking in here even though your "done")

UM8, HH, 1RFG were apart of the Newcomer Cup. Same competition that PACK joined when they started. You going to make fun of their first wars as well?

AKA was chosen as we hadn't faced them, and we had a new war planner who needed experience. It was also one of our first wars. I'm interested, who exactly you think new clans should face? KORT?

As PACK even said, it's generally difficult to get top level challenges as a new clan. We've been lucky and able to arrange for FOUR of them. We aren't taking on all easy clans here. 4 in the top 12, 2 of those top 6 when we started. (EMP and TSM both 6th when we started challenge. FOED 9th, LOW 11th). We were 1 away from a FOED win, in a war both clans said could have gone either way (and our 2nd war ever, and was a top 10). We not only beat LOW (11th) but bet them 30-20. We've kept up w EMP (6-7th) so far, and beat AOC at home in CL5 5 or 6-2. (granted only 8 game set, well see when our home games come around).

What have you done lately?

Oh, and the VVV war you mentioned. They aren't a low ranked clan, they are unranked. We agreed to a war bcuz we took in a few new members and wanted to try some new maps / teams out and they were up for the challenge. I've also tried helping VVV along the way by giving helpful tips, pointers for F400, and answer any questions they have to help improve later on.

We also have the RL going on and will be signing up for CC4. So...who was it you faced again? WAR. Right. In summation your trying to discredit us for having gone they newcomer cup, and your a non newcomer who chooses not to aim high. Got it. :)

If you want a real challenge sometime when our schedule is free later in the year, let us know. Well be happy to consider you. LOL

IcePack
Last edited by IcePack on Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BG Coaches Poll (03-01-13)

Postby chapcrap on Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:05 pm

IR1SH ACE wrote:finally...ok i lied there is one thing i cant help but respond to Chap..
chapcrap wrote:And, if you want to try to stay in the top 10, then play higher ranked clans. Beating lower ranked clans isn't going to get you higher in any ranking system that I know of.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

think ur mixin us up with another Clan already in this rankin....perhaps if we were to beat... UM8, HH, AKA.....we could be a top 10 clan also...lol

think u should heed ur own words dude...
FALL vs VVV

Who said we were trying to stay in the top 10? :lol:

Anyway, like Ice said, those wars were part of a new clan competition. The wars we've scheduled outside of NC3 have moved progressively up the rankings (AKA, FOED, LOW, Empire, TSM) until we got to VVV, which we played because we love mcshanester29!!! \:D/

IR1SH ACE wrote:P.S. i think brucewars top 20 a few posts above is more accurate then the overall rank here

So, just to understand you correctly, you got irritated because the poll ranked you 14th, but you're ok with Bruce ranking you 12th? That's only two spots different. That's why I said I don't get all the angst. All he did (for your clan) was move PIG ahead of FALL and FOED. Are you sure you don't want to make your ranking of the top 20? I'll make you a deal, you show me yours and I'll show you mine. ;)
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Re: BG Coaches Poll (03-01-13)

Postby chapcrap on Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:26 pm

Ok, I'll show mine first. Don't look unless you're going to show yours. ;)

FWIW, I was not involved in the rankings.

show: Ranks by chap
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Re: BG Coaches Poll (03-01-13)

Postby freakns on Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:05 pm

chapcrap wrote:Ok, I'll show mine first. Don't look unless you're going to show yours. ;)

FWIW, I was not involved in the rankings.

show: Ranks by chap

i would love to know why is TNC in front of us? we kind of destroyed them in clan war...

anyhow, this is my list, in original form, the way it was sent to BG.
show
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Re: BG Coaches Poll (03-01-13)

Postby chapcrap on Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:57 pm

freakns wrote:
chapcrap wrote:Ok, I'll show mine first. Don't look unless you're going to show yours. ;)

FWIW, I was not involved in the rankings.

show: Ranks by chap

i would love to know why is TNC in front of us? we kind of destroyed them in clan war...

anyhow, this is my list, in original form, the way it was sent to BG.
show

TNC ahead of you... It's just a perception thing. I don't know everyone's war history and don't keep up with that enough to give a good ranking. That's why I said originally that I didn't want to be involved with the ranking, because I didn't know enough information. I honestly believe that TNC is better than some of their performances show, so I ranked them higher. Probably higher than most people did.
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Re: BG Coaches Poll (03-01-13)

Postby Bones2484 on Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:08 pm

Hopefully our back-to-back wins in 2013 over TNC and TFFS give G1 a few more votes in the next poll. After taking a break from wars in most of 2011/2012, we're coming back with a vengeance with some solid new blood. Just started another war with HH this week.
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Re: BG Coaches Poll (03-01-13)

Postby chapcrap on Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:01 pm

Bones2484 wrote:Hopefully our back-to-back wins in 2013 over TNC and TFFS give G1 a few more votes in the next poll. After taking a break from wars in most of 2011/2012, we're coming back with a vengeance with some solid new blood. Just started another war with HH this week.

Night Strike is holding you back. He's a lame-o!! :shock: :o
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Re: BG Coaches Poll (03-01-13)

Postby Bones2484 on Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:23 am

chapcrap wrote:
Bones2484 wrote:Hopefully our back-to-back wins in 2013 over TNC and TFFS give G1 a few more votes in the next poll. After taking a break from wars in most of 2011/2012, we're coming back with a vengeance with some solid new blood. Just started another war with HH this week.

Night Strike is holding you back. He's a lame-o!! :shock: :o


That is the nicest thing I've ever heard anyone in the public forums say about Night Stick.
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Re: BG Coaches Poll (03-01-13)

Postby hyposquasher on Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:51 am

Pretty cool idea. Thanks, BG, and anyone else who helped.
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Re: BG Coaches Poll (03-01-13)

Postby Chariot of Fire on Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:32 pm

Bruceswar wrote:As a voter here is what I had as of Feb 25th.

1. KORT
2. AOC
3. TOFU
4. AFOS
5. PACK
6. TSM
7. EMPIRE
8. IA
9. OSA
10. ID
11. OTP
12. PIG
13. TNC
14. MYTH
15. FALL
16. LOW
17. FOED
18. BFM
19. MD
20. 1ST REG

You might look at these and ask why TOFU is below AOC, but looking at the results... AOC has been to 2 Clan League finals in a row. TOFU has been to none. While TOFU has a lead on KORT right now the war is not over yet. TOFU has yet to make the finals of any major event. TOFU also got trashed by Empire in CC 2. I know this is about now, but AOC is slightly ahead right now in my opinion.


This is why I always had a problem with Blitz and his poll coz he habitually ranked the then undefeated TOFU lower than they deserved (obviously felt threatened). Same has happened here, evident by the fact Bruce even feels the need to explain himself! TOFU has lost just one challenge in its history (at a time it was without leadership), it has beaten KORT every time in their two challenges, it has the leading overall Won/Lost stats of any clan and is now about to contest the CC3 Final. We've also met AOC twice, beating them in the CLA2 Final and 26-15 in a challenge. Some people obviously let their hearts (or self-interest) rule their heads or simply don't do their homework very well.

And BG - it would have been courteous to send a PM to those you asked for rankings to direct them to this thread (which I've only just seen). When I PM'd you a week after submitting Tofu's list you told me insufficient replies had been received and that this wasn't going to be done.
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Re: BG Coaches Poll (03-01-13)

Postby Bruceswar on Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:32 am

Please note the date on my list posted. My list would be different now than it was then. I stand by my list then and still stand by it.(About the time it was written) My placing of TOFU was not from my heart, but with a common sense approach. That could be said for anybody I ranked on this list or did not rank. I took what was in my PM to BG and copied it out and posted here.
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Re: BG Coaches Poll (03-01-13)

Postby Chariot of Fire on Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:22 am

How would it be different? Would we be even lower? lol. On the basis we had a 13-7 lead over you at the time and were forecast to lead 24-12 with the games in progress I'd have thought a 31-29 result was a positive slump for us in March. So I can't imagine how your perception would change between then and now - at least not one to put us in a more favourable light. If in your opinion we are ranked lower than AOC yet we beat you, where does that put you?

Or maybe posting your opinion was simply a tactless thing to do unless you wished to draw criticism?

A coaches' poll is supposed to reflect ability above anything else - past results are secondary in the calculation - much like seedings as opposed to world rankings. The F400 takes care of performance-based rankings whereas the coaches' poll is meant to determine perceived strength (if Clan X met Clan Y tomorrow who would win?). That's why there should be discrepancies between the two, much like AOC/Empire's new clan being relegated on the F400 yet which should be higher (logically) on the coaches' poll.

Rant over

p.s. we ranked you higher
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Re: BG Coaches Poll (03-01-13)

Postby Bruceswar on Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:30 am

Well if it stood right now. It would be

1. KORT
2. TOFU
3. AFOS
4. PACK
... Etc etc etc

I would still say the whole body of work that KORT has done puts them slightly over TOFU right now. I am not saying you will not overtake KORT, but as of right now that is how I would have it. It is just like when we first beat THOTA. Nobody had us at the number 1 spot right away. We had to keep winning to get that spot.
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Re: BG Coaches Poll (03-01-13)

Postby Chariot of Fire on Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:39 am

So AOC don't even figure in your Top 4 anymore despite bringing onboard a lot of Empire talent? As I mentioned in my previous post, I think you put too much stock in historical results and not on potential which creates a distorted view. And despite our unblemished record vs Kort & AoC we still don't fare better, so even on historical data it seems warped.

We've gone 7-17 vs you guys in March and lost to a couple of clans in the Random League in the same period yet we've moved up a place on your current table. Cheers!
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