the F41 [Feb 1 Updated!]

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Re: the F41 [Jan 1 Updated]

Postby Chariot of Fire on Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:36 am

We don't bleed.
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Re: the F41 [Jan 1 Updated]

Postby Dako on Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:37 am

Jan 15 update planned?
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Re: the F41 [Jan 1 Updated]

Postby Leehar on Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:10 am

Dako wrote:Jan 15 update planned?

it's only the f400 thats released every fortnight? the others are monthly with coaches poll quarterly?
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Re: the F41 [Jan 1 Updated]

Postby Dako on Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:08 am

Ahh, I am being too greedy then. Sorry ^^.
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Re: the F41 [Jan 1 Updated]

Postby IcePack on Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:33 am

Dako wrote:Ahh, I am being too greedy then. Sorry ^^.


Haha yeah Leehar is correct, F41 is monthly ish - sorry!
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12:11:16 ‹Swifte› good thing we have the beta program to weed all these problems out
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Re: the F41 [July 1 Updated!]

Postby IcePack on Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:28 pm

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12:11:16 ‹Swifte› good thing we have the beta program to weed all these problems out
12:15:00 * IcePack joins Social
12:15:35 ‹Swifte› well that's just bad timing
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Re: the F41 [July 1 Updated!]

Postby agentcom on Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:37 am

Apparently, we're not very good at this F41 stuff. I suggest only playing F400 games.
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Re: the F41 [Sept 1 Updated!]

Postby IcePack on Sat Sep 27, 2014 1:20 pm

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12:11:16 ‹Swifte› good thing we have the beta program to weed all these problems out
12:15:00 * IcePack joins Social
12:15:35 ‹Swifte› well that's just bad timing
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Re: the F41 [Sept 1 Updated!]

Postby Dako on Sat Sep 27, 2014 4:36 pm

I want to say it feels good to completely dominate this ranking since ... the beginning. KORT, you ready to challenge our #1 here? :P
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Re: the F41 [Dec 1 Updated!]

Postby IcePack on Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:32 am

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12:11:16 ‹Swifte› good thing we have the beta program to weed all these problems out
12:15:00 * IcePack joins Social
12:15:35 ‹Swifte› well that's just bad timing
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Re: the F41 [Sept 1 Updated!]

Postby Shannon Apple on Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:27 pm

Dako wrote:I want to say it feels good to completely dominate this ranking since ... the beginning. KORT, you ready to challenge our #1 here? :P


Oh... I guess it happened. :lol:
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Re: the F41 [Sept 1 Updated!]

Postby josko.ri on Sat Jan 10, 2015 2:53 am

Dako wrote:I want to say it feels good to completely dominate this ranking since ... the beginning. KORT, you ready to challenge our #1 here? :P

not only #1 but also the highest score ever achieved within this ranking ;)
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Re: the F41 [Sept 1 Updated!]

Postby Dako on Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:34 am

josko.ri wrote:
Dako wrote:I want to say it feels good to completely dominate this ranking since ... the beginning. KORT, you ready to challenge our #1 here? :P

not only #1 but also the highest score ever achieved within this ranking ;)

Who are you?
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Re: the F41 [Sept 1 Updated!]

Postby josko.ri on Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:29 am

Dako wrote:
josko.ri wrote:
Dako wrote:I want to say it feels good to completely dominate this ranking since ... the beginning. KORT, you ready to challenge our #1 here? :P

not only #1 but also the highest score ever achieved within this ranking ;)

Who are you?

Just giving you the answer to the question you had asked ;)
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Re: the F41 [Feb 1 Updated!]

Postby IcePack on Fri Feb 06, 2015 3:28 pm

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12:11:16 ‹Swifte› good thing we have the beta program to weed all these problems out
12:15:00 * IcePack joins Social
12:15:35 ‹Swifte› well that's just bad timing
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Re: the F41 [Feb 1 Updated!]

Postby betiko on Fri Feb 06, 2015 6:26 pm

So there is something I don't understand here...

We're 5th in the f400 behind tsm
We're 4th ahead of tsm in the f41
We're 6th in the leagues ranking while tsm isn't even ranked.

Conclusion; being 6th in the leagues ranking makes you lose points and it's better not to participate in it?

We're having a pretty decent record in league, with 1 tied and 5 wins, how does that make us lose points compared to tsm?
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Re: the F41 [Feb 1 Updated!]

Postby Keefie on Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:37 am

betiko wrote:So there is something I don't understand here...

We're 5th in the f400 behind tsm
We're 4th ahead of tsm in the f41
We're 6th in the leagues ranking while tsm isn't even ranked.

Conclusion; being 6th in the leagues ranking makes you lose points and it's better not to participate in it?

We're having a pretty decent record in league, with 1 tied and 5 wins, how does that make us lose points compared to tsm?


and in Sept 2014 you were 25th in leagues.

This is a 2 year ranking so pre Sept 2014 your league performance wasn't very good.
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Re: the F41 [Feb 1 Updated!]

Postby betiko on Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:39 am

Keefie wrote:
betiko wrote:So there is something I don't understand here...

We're 5th in the f400 behind tsm
We're 4th ahead of tsm in the f41
We're 6th in the leagues ranking while tsm isn't even ranked.

Conclusion; being 6th in the leagues ranking makes you lose points and it's better not to participate in it?

We're having a pretty decent record in league, with 1 tied and 5 wins, how does that make us lose points compared to tsm?


and in Sept 2014 you were 25th in leagues.

This is a 2 year ranking so pre Sept 2014 your league performance wasn't very good.


yes, but results older that 2 years ago have been removed; and what counts is the current ranking... 6th in leagues. I still stand by my point; being ranked 6th in league overall, which in my sense is pretty good, is a prejudice compared to clans that don't participate. I was just very surprised to see us in front of TSM in the F41, and that in league not being ranked makes them win back our position for the f400 global ranking.
Anyway, we're facing TSM in the CC5 so it will be a good opportunity to claim the 4th place in the f400!!! :D
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Re: the F41 [Feb 1 Updated!]

Postby JPlo64 on Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:13 am

betiko wrote:So there is something I don't understand here...

We're 5th in the f400 behind tsm
We're 4th ahead of tsm in the f41
We're 6th in the leagues ranking while tsm isn't even ranked.


If you told me your 4th in wars and 6th in leagues. I might guess ur combined rating might be 5th. ;)

That being said...
When you compare the F41 and the FiceLeague rankings, the difference in the Ranking Values is rather striking.
Nearly uniformly it is the case that a clan's rating is higher in the F41 than the Fice. By an average of about 100-200 pts per clan.
(I wonder why that is. Is it just the case that Leagues are very difficult to put up high points b/c of the small size of each matchup?)
So, it actually does seem that, as far as the F400 is concerned, you're most likely better off not playing in the leagues.
It would be nice to maybe adjust the value given to League matches to correct this discrepancy.
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Re: the F41 [Feb 1 Updated!]

Postby betiko on Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:39 am

JPlo64 wrote:
betiko wrote:So there is something I don't understand here...

We're 5th in the f400 behind tsm
We're 4th ahead of tsm in the f41
We're 6th in the leagues ranking while tsm isn't even ranked.


If you told me your 4th in wars and 6th in leagues. I might guess ur combined rating might be 5th. ;)

That being said...
When you compare the F41 and the FiceLeague rankings, the difference in the Ranking Values is rather striking.
Nearly uniformly it is the case that a clan's rating is higher in the F41 than the Fice. By an average of about 100-200 pts per clan.
(I wonder why that is. Is it just the case that Leagues are very difficult to put up high points b/c of the small size of each matchup?)
So, it actually does seem that, as far as the F400 is concerned, you're most likely better off not playing in the leagues.
It would be nice to maybe adjust the value given to League matches to correct this discrepancy.


I guess it isn't as simple as an approximate average between war rankings and league rankings! ;)
being 6th in leagues brings a negative value to your F400 score, as TSM isn't participating in them and they "overtake us" in the F400 compared to the F41 because of it. I would've logically thought that our good league results would've brought extra points to our war results, but it's the opposite. Maybe it is because most of our wins have a too low win % against lower ranked clans, and therefore some wins give negative points... I don't know. I'm curious to hear icepack's explanation.
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Re: the F41 [Feb 1 Updated!]

Postby betiko on Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:49 am

just had a better look:

F400
TSM 1333
LHDD 1258

F41
LHDD 1346
TSM 1342

Fice
LHDD 1169
TSM unranked

best Fice clan: ACE 1328

I don't know this doesn't seem right. We lose over 90 points because of our league results. Is it because no one manages to get much better results than others (too little games per skirmish); therefore the league rankings always benefit lower ranked clans, even if they do bad, as long as the lose by just a few games?
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Re: the F41 [Feb 1 Updated!]

Postby IcePack on Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:32 pm

It's not really as simple as you're making it Betiko. Each ranking is totally independent from the others.

Unfortunately I spent almost 40 hours this past week fixing the database for ranking (only way I was able to do this was because I was off work on injury leave) and go back to work tomorrow. And then leave for a 2 week vacation. So the earliest I would get to this is in march.
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12:11:16 ‹Swifte› good thing we have the beta program to weed all these problems out
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12:15:35 ‹Swifte› well that's just bad timing
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Re: the F41 [Feb 1 Updated!]

Postby josko.ri on Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:05 pm

betiko wrote:just had a better look:

F400
TSM 1333
LHDD 1258

F41
LHDD 1346
TSM 1342

Fice
LHDD 1169
TSM unranked

best Fice clan: ACE 1328

I don't know this doesn't seem right. We lose over 90 points because of our league results. Is it because no one manages to get much better results than others (too little games per skirmish); therefore the league rankings always benefit lower ranked clans, even if they do bad, as long as the lose by just a few games?

This is because your League results are bad. Both IA and FALL beat you in League matches and you are playing in second League. TSM, unlike you, was 1st in their Qualifying League group and even beat ACE in first round of the League, being the only one to beat ACE.

So, to answer your question, playing in Leaguue itself does not make your rank lower. What makes your rank lower is playing in League AND having bad results.
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Re: the F41 [Feb 1 Updated!]

Postby willedtowin1 on Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:05 pm

by josko.ri

He just went there!
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Re: the F41 [Feb 1 Updated!]

Postby betiko on Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:54 am

josko.ri wrote:
betiko wrote:just had a better look:

F400
TSM 1333
LHDD 1258

F41
LHDD 1346
TSM 1342

Fice
LHDD 1169
TSM unranked

best Fice clan: ACE 1328

I don't know this doesn't seem right. We lose over 90 points because of our league results. Is it because no one manages to get much better results than others (too little games per skirmish); therefore the league rankings always benefit lower ranked clans, even if they do bad, as long as the lose by just a few games?

This is because your League results are bad. Both IA and FALL beat you in League matches and you are playing in second League. TSM, unlike you, was 1st in their Qualifying League group and even beat ACE in first round of the League, being the only one to beat ACE.

So, to answer your question, playing in Leaguue itself does not make your rank lower. What makes your rank lower is playing in League AND having bad results.


Yes, we ended up in second division because of it. And no, our league results are not that bad.
Sure we lost in qualifyings (1 draw 1 loss) against both IA and FALL, while we got double wins vs AQOH and VVV. That lead us to second division, which somehow was good news cause it gives us a shot at the second division champion title (I'd rather be the second division champion and get a nice shiny medal for it than ending 4th or 5th in first division, right josko?). In second division overall (what counts for rankings) we've tied against ID, but then we beat all our other opponents (OSA, LOW, RGX, G1, GON, AFOS and looking good to beat VVV) and we are leading the league. So basically, since the qualifying stage that makes 9 wins, 1 draw, 2 losses, that's not what I call having bad results.

Doesn't look like you guys did too good against fallen either since they've beat you 6-2 in their home games too.
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