Adjustments to league format for CL6?

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Re: Adjustments to league format for CL6?

Postby Keefie on Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:31 am

Doc_Brown wrote:
Keefie wrote:There are some great ideas here, that deserve further discussion for future events. But there was a 15/6 majority in favour of keeping CL6 largely the same as CL5.


Is it possible that the vote was against changes because no reasonable proposals were included as examples of major changes to be individually discussed, so no one really knew what changes they would have been voting to approve? If the poll question was simply, "Do you want to see major changes to CL6 as compared to CL5? No discussion is permitted in this thread." I would have been shocked to see an affirmative result. A far better poll question would have been:
The following are potential changes to CL6 that would be a significant change compared to CL5. Should these proposals receive further discussion and individual votes, or should CL6 remain very similar in structure to CL5?
Proposal 1: xxxxx
Proposal 2: xxxxx
etc...


Doc,

The clan leaders were give the choice of

1. No changes to the format. VOTES: 2

2. Minor changes, such as map use etc etc VOTES: 15

3. Major changes, such as promotion / relegation etc VOTES: 6

So it was pretty clear that the majority voted for no change or just small tweaks.

K
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Re: Adjustments to league format for CL6?

Postby benga on Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:50 am

Keefie wrote:
Doc_Brown wrote:
Keefie wrote:There are some great ideas here, that deserve further discussion for future events. But there was a 15/6 majority in favour of keeping CL6 largely the same as CL5.


Is it possible that the vote was against changes because no reasonable proposals were included as examples of major changes to be individually discussed, so no one really knew what changes they would have been voting to approve? If the poll question was simply, "Do you want to see major changes to CL6 as compared to CL5? No discussion is permitted in this thread." I would have been shocked to see an affirmative result. A far better poll question would have been:
The following are potential changes to CL6 that would be a significant change compared to CL5. Should these proposals receive further discussion and individual votes, or should CL6 remain very similar in structure to CL5?
Proposal 1: xxxxx
Proposal 2: xxxxx
etc...


Doc,

The clan leaders were give the choice of

1. No changes to the format. VOTES: 2

2. Minor changes, such as map use etc etc VOTES: 15

3. Major changes, such as promotion / relegation etc VOTES: 6

So it was pretty clear that the majority voted for no change or just small tweaks.

K


And we still don't know what the format will be used or what exact rules are to be enforced.

Thus I did not vote and many others didn't cause they weren't even aware the vote was being held.

In past there was at least mass pm notfication to clan reps.
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Re: Adjustments to league format for CL6?

Postby Lindax on Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:47 pm

benga wrote:
Keefie wrote:
Doc_Brown wrote:
Keefie wrote:There are some great ideas here, that deserve further discussion for future events. But there was a 15/6 majority in favour of keeping CL6 largely the same as CL5.


Is it possible that the vote was against changes because no reasonable proposals were included as examples of major changes to be individually discussed, so no one really knew what changes they would have been voting to approve? If the poll question was simply, "Do you want to see major changes to CL6 as compared to CL5? No discussion is permitted in this thread." I would have been shocked to see an affirmative result. A far better poll question would have been:
The following are potential changes to CL6 that would be a significant change compared to CL5. Should these proposals receive further discussion and individual votes, or should CL6 remain very similar in structure to CL5?
Proposal 1: xxxxx
Proposal 2: xxxxx
etc...


Doc,

The clan leaders were give the choice of

1. No changes to the format. VOTES: 2

2. Minor changes, such as map use etc etc VOTES: 15

3. Major changes, such as promotion / relegation etc VOTES: 6

So it was pretty clear that the majority voted for no change or just small tweaks.

K


And we still don't know what the format will be used or what exact rules are to be enforced.

Thus I did not vote and many others didn't cause they weren't even aware the vote was being held.

In past there was at least mass pm notfication to clan reps.


I did sent a PM to all clan reps.

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Re: Adjustments to league format for CL6?

Postby Qwert on Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:45 am

well i have idea how will promotion relegation system work(im all ready present this).

With Premier League and two Second League.

Of course for first time unfortunately will need qualification stage(similar to CL5), or to use final standing from CL5 to fill .

Mine idea for promotion and relegation was reserve of CL5, but first format win.

I think that major mistake of Cd are ,before any votes, its need discusion abouth what rules need to be change---ofcourse discusion with community. Then its can talk about format changes( promotion -relegation or stay same).

Well att least this its how been in CL5, and like some point above in post, that in CD&F forums ,CL5 format and discussion had big number of post, and i was very active with communication with people, and this its key for good solutions.
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Re: Adjustments to league format for CL6?

Postby Prince_Tottenham on Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:03 am

If you you guys can provide links for clan league (all tiers) with interested clans to join CL6, i can make a project for CL6 with keeping promotion/relegation system ( which i think it's best to keep it )
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Re: Adjustments to league format for CL6?

Postby Keefie on Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:12 am

Prince_Tottenham wrote:If you you guys can provide links for clan league (all tiers) with interested clans to join CL6, i can make a project for CL6 with keeping promotion/relegation system ( which i think it's best to keep it )


Clans voted 17-6 against promotion/relegation.
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Re: Adjustments to league format for CL6?

Postby WPBRJ on Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:11 am

Keefie wrote:
Doc,

The clan leaders were give the choice of

1. No changes to the format. VOTES: 2

2. Minor changes, such as map use etc etc VOTES: 15

3. Major changes, such as promotion / relegation etc VOTES: 6

So it was pretty clear that the majority voted for no change or just small tweaks.

K


i have to say i was not in any of the talks on this matter but am i understanding this correctly the vote was put up with no discussion on the matter just a vote.

if this is correct that vote is vague at best. i would have to say the vote is worthless if there were no options and details of the actual changes.


example: if i bring my broken car to a auto repair shop and the guy tells me i have three options and i have to choose one

1. leave it broken
2. we maybe be able to tweak it a little but we really cant tell you what we are going to tweak
3. we can do major modifications and again we cant really tell you what but it might help

and all in all is said with out a discussion i cant really make a good educated decision on the option i was given.

saying all of this that vote was vague with no discussion so it is not pretty clean by any means. i am all for the CD's running this monster but bottom line is we still should have say in it so there should be proper discussions to give us details on what we are actually voting on.
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Re: Adjustments to league format for CL6?

Postby Keefie on Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:18 am

The above is just a summary of the options available to vote on.
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Re: Adjustments to league format for CL6?

Postby Vid_FISO on Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:47 am

As a matter of interest, do you know who voted for what? How many of the votes came from clans that participated in CL5 and are very likely to enter CL6? Have any clans registered 2 (or more) votes due to CDs (and possibly others) being in CD&F along with a further nominated rep?
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Re: Adjustments to league format for CL6?

Postby Keefie on Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:50 am

Vid_FISO wrote:As a matter of interest, do you know who voted for what? How many of the votes came from clans that participated in CL5 and are very likely to enter CL6? Have any clans registered 2 (or more) votes due to CDs (and possibly others) being in CD&F along with a further nominated rep?


Lindax ran the vote, so hopefully he'll have the info you need.
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Re: Adjustments to league format for CL6?

Postby Armandolas on Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:26 pm

I believe most people agree that playing a 2nd or 3rd league is very boring and useless.
I also have the feeling that people voted on options that meant absolutely nothing for them, or were given a wrong meaning. It seems like options 2 is voting for map usage and option 3 voting for promotion relegation.
Whats the point on voting on "etc" if no one knows what does it mean?
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Re: Adjustments to league format for CL6?

Postby WPBRJ on Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:53 pm

Keefie wrote:The above is just a summary of the options available to vote on.


your defending a poor vote

summery and options and there was non of this 1 example and saying ECT means nothing. there was no discussion and there is no summery or no options for that matter
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Re: Adjustments to league format for CL6?

Postby Donelladan on Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:13 am

I believe most people agree that playing a 2nd or 3rd league is very boring and useless.


I don't see where most people agree on that.
If you look at the 2nd league of CL5, you had OSA, MM, GR, ID, TLW, SOH, LEG, TFFS, RA, MD, LHDD and AOK.
I didn't find it was boring at all.
OK there is only one top 10 clan according to F400, but as 2nd league it seems relatively normal to me, nevertheless I found we had worthy opponents.
I can't tell for the 3rd league since I wasn't inside, but I may have found way more boring to be playing TOFU, KORT and ACE than my opponent of the 2nd league if it was to lose 8-0 all the matchs against them. I am not saying that it would have happened :) , but different level is also good for lower ranked clan.
Maybe 2 league is sufficient and the 3rd useless I can't tell, but we need some leagues, and 2nd league wasn't and won't be boring.

Otherwise, I think a real vote on the relegation/promotion system only should happen.
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Re: Adjustments to league format for CL6?

Postby ViperOverLord on Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:11 pm

Donelladan wrote:
I believe most people agree that playing a 2nd or 3rd league is very boring and useless.


I don't see where most people agree on that.
If you look at the 2nd league of CL5, you had OSA, MM, GR, ID, TLW, SOH, LEG, TFFS, RA, MD, LHDD and AOK.
I didn't find it was boring at all.
OK there is only one top 10 clan according to F400, but as 2nd league it seems relatively normal to me, nevertheless I found we had worthy opponents.
I can't tell for the 3rd league since I wasn't inside, but I may have found way more boring to be playing TOFU, KORT and ACE than my opponent of the 2nd league if it was to lose 8-0 all the matchs against them. I am not saying that it would have happened :) , but different level is also good for lower ranked clan.
Maybe 2 league is sufficient and the 3rd useless I can't tell, but we need some leagues, and 2nd league wasn't and won't be boring.

Otherwise, I think a real vote on the relegation/promotion system only should happen.


Okay....But what's the point of continually having a play-in system each year when you can make that the function of the second league and thereby make the league even more interesting? I think the resistance to the promotion/relegation system is fear of the unknown or possibly fear of perpetual mismanagement. I haven't otherwise seen great arguments against it.
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Re: Adjustments to league format for CL6?

Postby ViperOverLord on Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:17 pm

Keefie wrote:Doc,

The clan leaders were give the choice of

1. No changes to the format. VOTES: 2

2. Minor changes, such as map use etc etc VOTES: 15

3. Major changes, such as promotion / relegation etc VOTES: 6

So it was pretty clear that the majority voted for no change or just small tweaks.

K


The vote was blatantly misleading. Map usage and relegation are two completely different matters. Clan leaders effectively were forced to prioritize what was more important to him/her; map usage or relegation. I've never once made an argument for or against relegation based on map usage.
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Re: Adjustments to league format for CL6?

Postby Lindax on Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:58 pm

ViperOverLord wrote:
Keefie wrote:Doc,

The clan leaders were give the choice of

1. No changes to the format. VOTES: 2

2. Minor changes, such as map use etc etc VOTES: 15

3. Major changes, such as promotion / relegation etc VOTES: 6

So it was pretty clear that the majority voted for no change or just small tweaks.

K


The vote was blatantly misleading. Map usage and relegation are two completely different matters. Clan leaders effectively were forced to prioritize what was more important to him/her; map usage or relegation. I've never once made an argument for or against relegation based on map usage.


Somebody woke up a wee bit late. The poll was posted on December 15, 2013 and ended on January 4, 2014.

It's now February 26, 2014. Did it take you all that time to figure out the poll was misleading?

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Re: Adjustments to league format for CL6?

Postby ViperOverLord on Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:48 am

Lindax wrote:
ViperOverLord wrote:
Keefie wrote:Doc,

The clan leaders were give the choice of

1. No changes to the format. VOTES: 2

2. Minor changes, such as map use etc etc VOTES: 15

3. Major changes, such as promotion / relegation etc VOTES: 6

So it was pretty clear that the majority voted for no change or just small tweaks.

K


The vote was blatantly misleading. Map usage and relegation are two completely different matters. Clan leaders effectively were forced to prioritize what was more important to him/her; map usage or relegation. I've never once made an argument for or against relegation based on map usage.


Somebody woke up a wee bit late. The poll was posted on December 15, 2013 and ended on January 4, 2014.

It's now February 26, 2014. Did it take you all that time to figure out the poll was misleading?

Lx


Wow. Look at you trying to have your cake and eat it too. This is your post from that poll:

This thread is not (yet) meant for discussion, only for voting. If this turns into a discussion thread it will be locked and nobody can vote anymore.


Maybe, just maybe, that's why there was no discussion on December 16th through January 4th.

All the same, I'll further regard your feeble attempt to make the dates the issue. On February 26, 2014, I was directly responding to a post from February 17th. When the poll took place did not have any relevance upon my answer to that post.

Also, are you then admitting that the poll was misleading? Or do you deny the obvious?
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Re: Adjustments to league format for CL6?

Postby Donelladan on Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:22 am

Somebody woke up a wee bit late. The poll was posted on December 15, 2013 and ended on January 4, 2014.

It's now February 26, 2014. Did it take you all that time to figure out the poll was misleading?

Lx


I am not a clan resp, I don't have access to that part of the forum.
Nevertheless I still think you should let clans resp vote again only for the "promotion/relegation" part.
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Re: Adjustments to league format for CL6?

Postby TheMissionary on Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:19 pm

I haven't read everything. I would just like to say, the league is enjoyable because of the effort required to try new maps. We had a discussion about this in our clan forum. We agreed it was quite enjoyable.
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2013-11-13 11:47:40 - NapoleonTanerite [team]: "We will forgive your forgetting to use the troops in Turkey." It's hard to think with an erection, which I bet TM had!
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Lieutenant TheMissionary
SoC Training Instructor
SoC Training Instructor
 
Posts: 1535
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:02 pm
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