[NC3] Newcomers Cup 3 - Winner TNC/MVP Epitaph1

Finished challenges between two competitive clans.

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Re: [NC3] Newcomers Cup 3 - round 2

Postby kmhebert on Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:53 am

I think you should allow LHDD to join the NC3 in place of RET. Frankly, I don't think NC3 should have started until NC2 was over, for the reason that the way you did it prevented a FINALIST from getting a second shot. If that had happened in NC1, Grim Reapers would not have won this time!

LHDD is a great clan and deserves an opportunity, I don't represent them but I think they deserve the slot if at all possible.
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Re: [NC3] Newcomers Cup 3 - round 2

Postby IcePack on Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:31 am

kmhebert wrote:I think you should allow LHDD to join the NC3 in place of RET. Frankly, I don't think NC3 should have started until NC2 was over, for the reason that the way you did it prevented a FINALIST from getting a second shot. If that had happened in NC1, Grim Reapers would not have won this time!

LHDD is a great clan and deserves an opportunity, I don't represent them but I think they deserve the slot if at all possible.


They were ranked better than 20th when this started, and still are. They aret eligible.
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Re: [NC3] Newcomers Cup 3 - round 2

Postby Leehar on Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:19 am

IcePack wrote:
kmhebert wrote:I think you should allow LHDD to join the NC3 in place of RET. Frankly, I don't think NC3 should have started until NC2 was over, for the reason that the way you did it prevented a FINALIST from getting a second shot. If that had happened in NC1, Grim Reapers would not have won this time!

LHDD is a great clan and deserves an opportunity, I don't represent them but I think they deserve the slot if at all possible.


They were ranked better than 20th when this started, and still are. They aret eligible.

Barely, and the NC2 result hasn't been included in the rankings yet either?
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Re: [NC3] Newcomers Cup 3 - round 2

Postby IcePack on Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:37 am

Leehar wrote:
IcePack wrote:
kmhebert wrote:I think you should allow LHDD to join the NC3 in place of RET. Frankly, I don't think NC3 should have started until NC2 was over, for the reason that the way you did it prevented a FINALIST from getting a second shot. If that had happened in NC1, Grim Reapers would not have won this time!

LHDD is a great clan and deserves an opportunity, I don't represent them but I think they deserve the slot if at all possible.


They were ranked better than 20th when this started, and still are. They aret eligible.

Barely, and the NC2 result hasn't been included in the rankings yet either?


For the entire duration of NC3 they've had an uneligible rank. If exceptions are going to be made to the 21st + ranking rule, other clans would have been eligible to sign up and the ones who did would be able to fully judge their own sign up.

I'm strongly against putting in ANY clan half way thru an event. Let alone one that is uneligible to the events rules and made it to finals in the last one. Barely uneligible or not, they aren't.

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Re: [NC3] Newcomers Cup 3 - round 2

Postby IcePack on Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:55 am

For the record LHDD was ranked 8th when sign ups for this was taking place.
Hardly "barely" ineligible, at the time of sign up.
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Re: [NC3] Newcomers Cup 3 - round 2

Postby Leehar on Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:14 am

Thats what kmhebert is talking about. Why did signups for the third edition happen while the 2nd edition was underway?

NC2 starts, NC2 ends, break, NC3 starts continue
Seems a more logical progression then what went on here?

At this rate a few years down the line NC9 & 10 will be playing out each round simultaneously :lol:
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Re: [NC3] Newcomers Cup 3 - round 2

Postby IcePack on Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:22 am

Leehar wrote:Thats what kmhebert is talking about. Why did signups for the third edition happen while the 2nd edition was underway?

NC2 starts, NC2 ends, break, NC3 starts continue
Seems a more logical progression then what went on here?

At this rate a few years down the line NC9 & 10 will be playing out each round simultaneously :lol:


I agree. That wasn't my decision. In fact I even mentioned it in the sign up thread.
But in there here and now, reality is they didn't sign up and were not eligible then, and aren't eligible now. IMO its total BS to be adding a clan after the events started, especially one that's in eligible.

I would support a change in the future that allows for waiting until NC3 finishes before NC4 sign ups begin. But I'm 100% opposed to a) adding a clan once it's begun and b) adding an eligible clan.

If he wants to be more inclusive, he can hange the cut off to 15th for NC4 and the clans that thinking about sign ups can decide if they want to participate. Clans for this event signed up under the rules saying 21st+, and made their decision based on that at the time.

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Re: [NC3] Newcomers Cup 3 - round 2

Postby Leehar on Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:42 pm

Can you 100% guarantee they won't be eligible after the NC2 final result goes into the book (and where I don't see much of a stretch in slipping from 19 to 21 for lhdd).
Since that takes care your eligibility criterion, It's up to the clans involved to see if they'd prefer to compete against an eligible clan rather than taking advantage of a senseless forfeiture.
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Re: [NC3] Newcomers Cup 3 - round 2

Postby IcePack on Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:22 pm

Leehar wrote:Can you 100% guarantee they won't be eligible after the NC2 final result goes into the book (and where I don't see much of a stretch in slipping from 19 to 21 for lhdd).
Since that takes care your eligibility criterion, It's up to the clans involved to see if they'd prefer to compete against an eligible clan rather than taking advantage of a senseless forfeiture.


At time of sign up they were 8th. Not a "19th to 21st". 8th to 21 is a big deal.
Regardless of that fact adding any clan after sign ups changes the competition. Especially so drastic as an 8th place. Let's just add FOED while we are at it? They're ranked lower than LHDD as well at the time.

No ones stopping them from signing up for NC4 whenever that starts (provided they are 21st +) and if they're still 19? They aren't eligible. Unless benga wants to change his entry criteria. But that at least allows other clams the opportunity to back out.

I know if benga chooses to change the rules and add a clan half way thru, I am MUCH less interested in competing in this event. If the events own rules aren't followed, why have them?

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Re: [NC3] Newcomers Cup 3 - round 2

Postby Leehar on Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:54 pm

If at the time of joining the competition, they're above 21, I can't understand why're you bringing up irrelevant data like the 8? They didn't sign up then. This is all up-in-the-air and unlikely to happen anyway, but it's senseless to bring up info from 6 months back if we're dealing with a hypothetical situation of them joining when eligible at this snapshot in time.

I have no vested interest in this, but I can't see the harm of seeing an actual clan participating in this if they meet the criteria for joining now.
It's logical and avoids an unnecessary forfeiture which I don't see why anyone would support
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Re: [NC3] Newcomers Cup 3 - round 2

Postby IcePack on Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:13 pm

Leehar wrote:If at the time of joining the competition, they're above 21, I can't understand why're you bringing up irrelevant data like the 8? They didn't sign up then. This is all up-in-the-air and unlikely to happen anyway, but it's senseless to bring up info from 6 months back if we're dealing with a hypothetical situation of them joining when eligible at this snapshot in time.

I have no vested interest in this, but I can't see the harm of seeing an actual clan participating in this if they meet the criteria for joining now.
It's logical and avoids an unnecessary forfeiture which I don't see why anyone would support


Because at the time the event started (a time the organizer choose to start it) they were uneligible to compete in the ENTIRE event. Not just the start.
Joining an event halfway thru is bogus. It's not irrelevant cuz u feel try should be allowed in. If the NC2 was over at the time this started they wouldn't have been eligible to compete. The organizer chose to do this early, instead of waiting. Therefore LHDD isnt able to join.

Pretty simple. If KORT or FOED or any other top 10 6 months ago dropped below 20th, they would be just as uneligible because they weren't at time of sign up.

Even if they were 30th at time of sign up - ultimately I keep going back to you can't have someone joining in the middle of a competition. I'm not sure what you don't get about that?

Whether someone else droppe out or not, it is what it is because te organizer started when he did, and they dropped out. Does it suck? Sure! But it's newcomers cup you expect some problems. But you don't solve them by adding uneligible clans after its started.

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Re: [NC3] Newcomers Cup 3 - round 2

Postby patrickaa317 on Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:42 pm

I agree 100% with IcePack on this one. TFFS is eliminated so I have no self interest in this. Sign ups were closed a while ago. Whether teams drop out or not.

If you are really worried about replacing a team, you should do it from the team that had the closest first round finish; or even a random drawing, not a clan that was ineligible when sign ups were taking place. If anything, any brand new clans that formed since the initial start of the NC Cup should be given priority.
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Re: [NC3] Newcomers Cup 3 - round 2

Postby benga on Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:18 am

There won't be any inclusions of either LHDD or any other clan.

The situation is as it is now.

Regarding restrictions for applying to the Cup itself it's hard for me to draw a specific line,
there aren't enough new clans each year to make this Cup relevant, so had to include other clans too.

That other clans had to be a clan that lower ranked to be a challenge, so that any new clan can
either win or be at least competitive and not to get crushed right away.
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Re: [NC3] Newcomers Cup 3 - round 2

Postby IcePack on Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:51 pm

Thank you for your input benga.
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Re: [NC3] Newcomers Cup 3 - round 2

Postby chapcrap on Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:55 pm

benga wrote:there aren't enough new clans each year to make this Cup relevant, so had to include other clans too.

It might be better if it was once per year, instead of every 8 months or whatever the arbitrary time was between tournaments.
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