[CC3] SEMI FINALS KoRT vs TOFU 29-31 - Final 5/2

Finished challenges between two competitive clans.

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Re: [CC3] SEMI FINALS KoRT vs TOFU 14-27

Postby freakns on Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:43 am

Doc_Brown wrote:Josko,
I realize that you are a far better player than the rest of us mere mortals, but do you find it unreasonable for some of us lowly players to ask questions of our teammates in game chat and wait for responses prior to taking our turns? I know I'm an inexperienced player and could learn a lot from you, but I'd always understood team play to be about working out a strategy with the team rather than a collection of four completely independent players doing their own thing. Surely my perspective is not unique to TOFU? Also, is it unheard of in Japan for a business to unexpectedly lose internet connectivity?

in Japan maybe is... but in Croatia sure as hell isnt ! :D
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Re: [CC3] SEMI FINALS KoRT vs TOFU 14-27

Postby krikee on Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:57 am

josko.ri wrote:
grifftron wrote:Wow. This just died. Must be very close being that it is so quiet :)

Yup it is. Another reason that old sitting abuse habits are back in CoF's performance...
Chariot of Fire wrote:Pedro sucks at Hive and hates it. He'd be the first to admit it.

Obviously Pedro needs assistance when playing turns, he waits for CoF and today they did not have time to meet so he left the turn for CoF to be sat. The abuse that they were already crossed the line twice and was punished for that obviously does not stop when result comes close.

Game 12349146
2013-03-07 00:23:45 - Astoriana ended the turn
2013-03-07 23:53:58 - Pedronicus: CoF for Pedro (rec'd text - no internet at work)

Pedro needed sitting in this game, but somehow he was able to play his turns in other games during this day. But not for hive, there he intentionally left turn for CoF to be sat in order to get strategic advantage.

Game 12305603
2013-03-07 05:15:29 - Pedronicus received 2 troops for holding ?

Game 12384695
2013-03-07 08:18:12 - Pedronicus received 1 troops for holding 3-cluster F01
2013-03-07 08:18:12 - Pedronicus received 12 troops for 138 regions
2013-03-07 08:18:21 - Pedronicus deployed 8 troops on Q10
2013-03-07 08:21:21 - Pedronicus deployed 4 troops on J06
2013-03-07 08:21:26 - Pedronicus deployed 1 troops on G06
2013-03-07 08:21:35 - Pedronicus assaulted Q09 from Q10 and conquered it from Chariot of Fire
2013-03-07 08:22:07 - Pedronicus reinforced Q09 with 10 troops from Q10
2013-03-07 08:27:49 - Pedronicus reinforced Q10 with 1 troops from Q09
2013-03-07 08:29:16 - Pedronicus reinforced B13 with 1 troops from A12
2013-03-07 08:29:35 - Pedronicus reinforced B13 with 4 troops from A12
2013-03-07 08:29:49 - Pedronicus reinforced A12 with 1 troops from B13
2013-03-07 08:20:46 - Pedronicus: n11, n15, d18, e18, e19 c07, c06,c05,b05 all red
2013-03-07 08:26:41 - Pedronicus: r07 and north all red, m17,n18, o18,p19, q18 to q13, plus r17, r15, p15
2013-03-07 08:28:07 - Pedronicus: s08

So, it is proven that Pedro was online at least twice during this day, as he played turns in 2 other games in 2 different time frames. Especially important to notice is singles game, whoever read log he will see that game is not competitive but is decorative, they do not play for win, they play it in order that they place troops on some way which will be pedro's art. So, Pedro had enough time to spend more than 10 minutes in playing non-competitive game, but somehow did not have time to play Hive turn (which later lasted less than 5 minutes) but rather decided to leave the turn for CoF.

P.S. I know this is not right place for the abuse writing, but we deserve equal playing field. CoF was writing about his suspicions about my abuse in public topic, so why I would not be allowed to do so when it happens to other side? That is the only reason why I put this in public, together with reporting this to officials. CoF, it is time to stop your cheating practices ;)

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Re: [CC3] SEMI FINALS KoRT vs TOFU 14-27

Postby josko.ri on Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:10 am

Doc_Brown wrote:Josko,
I realize that you are a far better player than the rest of us mere mortals, but do you find it unreasonable for some of us lowly players to ask questions of our teammates in game chat and wait for responses prior to taking our turns? I know I'm an inexperienced player and could learn a lot from you, but I'd always understood team play to be about working out a strategy with the team rather than a collection of four completely independent players doing their own thing. Surely my perspective is not unique to TOFU? Also, is it unheard of in Japan for a business to unexpectedly lose internet connectivity?

viewtopic.php?f=239&t=145859&start=255#p3229429
Read this verdict so you will see that it is not ok to wait any longer than you can be sure you will be back from job. Here are times of Pedro's playing turns during weekdays in last month Times shown GMT+9 and Pedro's UK time is GMT 0. I just want to prove that Pedro was NEVER online (in last period) in hours that were before time the sat turn was about to expire:

Game 12349146
2013-03-07 00:23:45 - Astoriana ended the turn
Now here is following analysis when Pedro plays his turns in time which is prior to Astoriana's ending turn time.
Game 12384695
2013-03-01 00:02:24 - Pedronicus missed a turn
2013-03-02 00:12:35 - Pedronicus missed a turn
2013-03-05 00:27:48 - Pedronicus missed a turn
2013-02-20 00:52:01 - Pedronicus began deploying initial troops
2013-02-27 02:23:15 - Pedronicus received 1 troops for holding 3-cluster F01
2013-02-20 03:49:31 - Pedronicus received 1 troops for holding 3-cluster F01
2013-02-23 05:03:45 - Pedronicus received 1 troops for holding 3-cluster F01
2013-03-03 05:49:07 - Pedronicus received 1 troops for holding 3-cluster F01
2013-02-21 05:49:45 - Pedronicus received 1 troops for holding 3-cluster F01
2013-03-07 08:18:12 - Pedronicus received 1 troops for holding 3-cluster F01
2013-03-06 08:53:38 - Pedronicus received 1 troops for holding 3-cluster F01
2013-02-24 09:51:50 - Pedronicus received 1 troops for holding 3-cluster F01
2013-02-22 10:25:28 - Pedronicus received 1 troops for holding 3-cluster F01

Obviously, judging by 15 turns from last started Pedro's game, his habit is not to come online on GMT+9 00.23 time or before. All his turns in the analysed game, which was chosen as example because there are 15 turns played, more than in any other his recent game, were played in timeframe of like 10 hours from 00.52 and 10.25 (minus 9 to be UK time). No one of them were played in time close to 00.23, which is another example that it was known fact in advance that Pedro will not be back before that time to play that turn. Obviously, it was not waiting for teammate for advice, it was leaving turn to him to be sat in order to gain strategic advantage.
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Re: [CC3] SEMI FINALS KoRT vs TOFU 14-27

Postby Doc_Brown on Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:31 am

josko.ri wrote:Obviously, judging by 15 turns from last started Pedro's game, his habit is not to come online on GMT+9 00.23 time or before. All his turns in the analysed game, which was chosen as example because there are 15 turns played, more than in any other his recent game, were played in timeframe of like 10 hours from 00.52 and 10.25 (minus 9 to be UK time). No one of them were played in time close to 00.23, which is another example that it was known fact in advance that Pedro will not be back before that time to play that turn. Obviously, it was not waiting for teammate for advice, it was leaving turn to him to be sat in order to gain strategic advantage.


Got it. Somehow you've determined that Pedro leaves work sometime between GMT+9 00.23 and GMT+9 00.52 every day and never takes his turn at work? You've also determined that CoF was lying about receiving the emergency text message from Pedro? I had heard your ability to predict outcomes of games was nearly prophetic in its accuracy. I hadn't heard that your investigative prowess and ability to evaluate the integrity of sources rivals that of InterPol.
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Re: [CC3] SEMI FINALS KoRT vs TOFU 14-27

Postby Foxglove on Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:32 am

Doc_Brown wrote:Josko,
I realize that you are a far better player than the rest of us mere mortals, but do you find it unreasonable for some of us lowly players to ask questions of our teammates in game chat and wait for responses prior to taking our turns? I know I'm an inexperienced player and could learn a lot from you, but I'd always understood team play to be about working out a strategy with the team rather than a collection of four completely independent players doing their own thing. Surely my perspective is not unique to TOFU? Also, is it unheard of in Japan for a business to unexpectedly lose internet connectivity?


Instead of being sarcastic, perhaps you should ask CoF what his thoughts are on people who wait until the last minute for instructions, and then need to have their turn sat because an emergency of one type of another arises (particularly players with a history of many sat turns). If you don't feel like asking him, and you don't feel like using the search functions provided by the forums, I would be happy to search out some quotes for you. Just so you know what to expect - he has *very, very* negative things to say about the practice itself and the people who happen to be involved.
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Re: [CC3] SEMI FINALS KoRT vs TOFU 14-27

Postby Foxglove on Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:39 am

krikee wrote:Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, my friend. Haven't you heard?


I think what's happening here is more of a return volley.
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Re: [CC3] SEMI FINALS KoRT vs TOFU 14-27

Postby Doc_Brown on Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:41 am

Foxglove wrote:
Doc_Brown wrote:Josko,
I realize that you are a far better player than the rest of us mere mortals, but do you find it unreasonable for some of us lowly players to ask questions of our teammates in game chat and wait for responses prior to taking our turns? I know I'm an inexperienced player and could learn a lot from you, but I'd always understood team play to be about working out a strategy with the team rather than a collection of four completely independent players doing their own thing. Surely my perspective is not unique to TOFU? Also, is it unheard of in Japan for a business to unexpectedly lose internet connectivity?


Instead of being sarcastic, perhaps you should ask CoF what his thoughts are on people who wait until the last minute for instructions, and then need to have their turn sat because an emergency of one type of another arises (particularly players with a history of many sat turns). If you don't feel like asking him, and you don't feel like using the search functions provided by the forums, I would be happy to search out some quotes for you. Just so you know what to expect - he has *very, very* negative things to say about the practice itself and the people who happen to be involved.


Foxy,
I get it. There's a lot of history with the Josko/Moonchild and CoF/Pedro/others. I also totally get that Josko and CoF are probably just amping up the criticism of each other in response to the other. Frankly, I find it tedious. But, I do take issue with direct accusations of dishonesty and lying. CoF explained in the game that he got a text from Pedro that his internet was down unexpectedly. I've skipped over page after page of KORT posts defending Josko for taking Moonchild's turns for him, but my response to Josko is out of line?
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Re: [CC3] SEMI FINALS KoRT vs TOFU 14-27

Postby Doc_Brown on Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:42 am

Foxglove wrote:
krikee wrote:Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, my friend. Haven't you heard?


I think what's happening here is more of a return volley.


Agreed and understood. Just don't be surprised if the smattering of pebbles you and the other Korties sent our way over the past few weeks has its own return. ;)
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Re: [CC3] SEMI FINALS KoRT vs TOFU 14-27

Postby fishydance on Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:50 am

At the risk of being stoned by the masses for being too flippant, can we just go back to discussing beer? That was a lot more entertaining.
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Re: [CC3] SEMI FINALS KoRT vs TOFU 14-27

Postby Chariot of Fire on Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:54 am

I got a text reply from Pedro after I texted him saying he had under 2 hours, simple as that. He was unable to take his turn from work as they are without internet. I left in-game chat last night before I went to bed, so it's hardly a case of Pedro looking at the map and not knowing what to do.

And have you seen the move that was played (of course you have, you were in the game watching). Hardly a complex move was it! You're just looking for reasons to bitch and whinge.

Get a life jockstrap.
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Re: [CC3] SEMI FINALS KoRT vs TOFU 14-27

Postby Chariot of Fire on Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:57 am

he waits for CoF and today they did not have time to meet


This is quite funny.

You do realise I have been on CC for the last 16 hours do you?

Which is quite sad!
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Re: [CC3] SEMI FINALS KoRT vs TOFU 12-24

Postby josko.ri on Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:04 pm

Dako wrote:
josko.ri wrote:Second time I need to repeat the same thing what I have already answered. I did it in last reply to you, I do it here, but next time you ask me something that has already been answered I will just ignore you.

so answer to question "Please explain how him sitting for me is worse from you sitting for Moon? I am also interested why you qualify him saving that turn as an abuse. " has been already answered, here is repeat: "You pointed fingers in my sitting for Moon when he was last online with 23 hours left on timer (my only sitting in this war btw), and then you sit for Dako in Ardennes, and Dako was playing the whole that day turns in other games, commented in this thread twice, 5 and 7 hours before the turn was to expire. In addition, I think he did not have Moderator privileges removed when you sat, which gives me another suspicion that I am not sure of answer, is it allowed to share Moderator's password (excluding absence time) with non-moderator user?"

Josko, just to be clear. You think it is abuse because:
a) he played my turn
b) he had my password
c) both of the above

Please can you answer that so I understand your position? It would really help me see what you mean because right now it is not clear to me.

You honestly asked so here is my honest answer why I think this is abuse:

During that day you were online and played 13 turns in 12 different games in times which were 23, 18, 6 and 5 hours before the Ardennes turn would expire, together with commenting in forum 5 hours before CoF sat. Obviously, you had plenty of time that day to take your own turns, but somehow you left it for CoF to sit. And that (being online able to play turns but choose not to do it) is abuse, judging by the precedent verdict quoted in my last post.
At the end, the turn sat by CoF lasted just 1 minute, so it was not a lot time consuming to play it by yourself, whether 23,18, 6 or 5 hours before the turn would expire and you were online.

Game 12351891 Ardennes
2013-02-24 04:35:44 - ballenus ended the turn
2013-02-25 04:28:22 - Dako received 3 troops for 8 regions
2013-02-25 04:29:44 - Dako: CoF for Dako - almost out of time

Game 12403405
2013-02-24 05:05:10 - Dako received 3 troops for 10 regions
2013-02-24 21:52:15 - Dako received 3 troops for 9 regions
Game 12389658
2013-02-24 05:30:51 - Dako received 2 troops for holding Oceania
Game 12382156
2013-02-24 05:03:24 - Dako received 3 troops for 5 regions
Game 12365522
2013-02-24 22:08:14 - Dako received 9 troops for 29 regions
Game 12382153
2013-02-24 05:00:28 - Dako received 6 troops for 20 regions
Game 12349135
2013-02-24 04:57:34 - Dako got bonus of 1 troops added to Brago
Game 12330691
2013-02-24 23:24:49 - Dako received 3 troops for 10 regions
Game 12305639
2013-02-24 10:28:45 - Dako received 3 troops for 2 regions
Game 12305606
2013-02-24 10:35:43 - Dako received 3 troops for 7 regions
Game 12305603
2013-02-24 10:32:20 - Dako received 2 troops for holding ?
Game 12305602
2013-02-24 10:34:30 - Dako received 3 troops for holding ?
Game 12304558
2013-02-24 23:23:16 - Dako received 5 troops for 15 regions

You also commented on forum when you could play that turn 5 hours before turn was about to expire:
viewtopic.php?f=441&t=183896&p=4074080#p4074080
by Dako on Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:19 pm
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Re: [CC3] SEMI FINALS KoRT vs TOFU 14-27

Postby Doc_Brown on Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:13 pm

fishydance wrote:At the risk of being stoned by the masses for being too flippant, can we just go back to discussing beer? That was a lot more entertaining.


I agree. And I have to say, I'm dreading the day when my 3 year old and 4 year old sons get old enough to have these sorts of arguments:
"He hit me!"
"He hit me first!"
"Yeah, but he took my car!"
"But he hit me harder than I hit him!"
:(

Now I'm wondering: Would I go to jail if I give my kids beer to calm the bickering? Probably so. It sure would be nice to be able to have a beer summit with an 8 year old though! It wouldn't take much!
(Disclaimer: I'm just kidding! If there are any DHR people out there I'd never actually consider doing this!)
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Re: [CC3] SEMI FINALS KoRT vs TOFU 14-27

Postby Chariot of Fire on Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:16 pm

Yeah Dako, how do you answer that? Bloody slackers in my clan. Fed up with it. I don't want to have to sit, esp Ardennes which is Dako's map.

Can I send them over to you guys?

Point is though...isn't the sitting that has been done legitimate? I'm pretty sure if the clock is under 2 hours and there is the likelihood of a missed turn.....???

That turn for Dako was cutting it fine - 7 mins on the clock.

I think Josko's flaming. A flaming ******
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Re: [CC3] SEMI FINALS KoRT vs TOFU 14-27

Postby Nicky15 on Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:24 pm

Jaffa Cake anyone ?
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Re: [CC3] SEMI FINALS KoRT vs TOFU 14-27

Postby josko.ri on Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:26 pm

Chariot of Fire wrote:Point is though...isn't the sitting that has been done legitimate? I'm pretty sure if the clock is under 2 hours and there is the likelihood of a missed turn.....???

That turn for Dako was cutting it fine - 7 mins on the clock.

Legal by clan rules, but abuse by site rules, you know it the best when there is need to point finger in others about breaking rules, but somehow you are missing to realize it when it is about you.
Here is reminder which rule is broken, and it is NOT rule about 2 hour gap. You know it the best but your great public acting skills manage to seem like you are not aware of it.
viewtopic.php?f=239&t=145859&start=255#p3229429
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Re: [CC3] SEMI FINALS KoRT vs TOFU 14-27

Postby Foxglove on Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:28 pm

Nicky15 wrote:Jaffa Cake anyone ?


Only if it has a sparkly candle in it.
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Re: [CC3] SEMI FINALS KoRT vs TOFU 14-27

Postby fishydance on Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:32 pm

Nicky15 wrote:Jaffa Cake anyone ?


Only if I can lick your cakes

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Re: [CC3] SEMI FINALS KoRT vs TOFU 14-27

Postby Rodion on Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:32 pm

Chariot of Fire wrote:Point is though...isn't the sitting that has been done legitimate? I'm pretty sure if the clock is under 2 hours and there is the likelihood of a missed turn.....???


As far as I understand, clan sitting rules did not revoke site-wide sitting rules.

And you do know that "playing turns when the sitee was online in that 24-hour period" is punishable.

In case you forgot:

viewtopic.php?f=239&t=145859 - CoF advocates a punishment for that
viewtopic.php?f=239&t=148339 - CoF is punished for that
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Re: [CC3] SEMI FINALS KoRT vs TOFU 14-27

Postby Chariot of Fire on Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:33 pm

Nicky15 wrote:Jaffa Cake anyone ?


:lol:

impeccable timing =D>
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Re: [CC3] SEMI FINALS KoRT vs TOFU 14-27

Postby Leehar on Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:35 pm

Please can we tone it down again.

Josko, I know you want to try seem like you're turning CoF's words back at him, but I'll have to ask you try not to indulge in the temptation in this thread.
It seems you've already undertaken proceedings in another channel, so It'd be preferred if you could leave such discussions in that arena and not drag them back here. As I mentioned earlier, the viewpoints between the Clans are only getting more Polarized so this doesn't serve much purpose other than to antagonise. So In this case, it's better to refrain from commenting at all since your arguments are obviously unlikely to be appreciated.

Same for CoF, if you feel josko's claims are groundless, there's no need to respond to them in this topic.

CD's & MH's will all take requisite evidence into account, so please address concerns to those parties rather than here.

Doc_Brown wrote:
Foxglove wrote:
krikee wrote:Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, my friend. Haven't you heard?


I think what's happening here is more of a return volley.


Agreed and understood. Just don't be surprised if the smattering of pebbles you and the other Korties sent our way over the past few weeks has its own return. ;)

I'm sure there's been a sufficient amount from both sides. This isn't the place to count the quantity but rather avoid throwing them in the first place.

Again, if you feel there's some grievous oversight you need to address, pm the individual and don't feel inclined to rebut in a public fora where the only the only thing harmed is inter-clan relations.


For the rest, you've proven you can obviously play nice, so please continue to do so :)
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Re: [CC3] SEMI FINALS KoRT vs TOFU 14-27

Postby fishydance on Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:39 pm

Leehar wrote:For the rest, you've proven you can obviously play nice, so please continue to do so :)


For that, you get beer AND Jaffa cakes.
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Re: [CC3] SEMI FINALS KoRT vs TOFU 14-27

Postby Doc_Brown on Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:42 pm

fishydance wrote:
Leehar wrote:For the rest, you've proven you can obviously play nice, so please continue to do so :)


For that, you get beer AND Jaffa cakes.


I thought they were Jaffa cookies? ;)
And what would be a good beer pairing for Jaffa cakes? A Russian Imperial Stout perhaps?

(And thanks Leehar. My apologies to all for my part in increasing the tension in here.)
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Re: [CC3] SEMI FINALS KoRT vs TOFU 14-27

Postby josko.ri on Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:43 pm

Leehar wrote:Please can we tone it down again.

Josko, I know you want to try seem like you're turning CoF's words back at him, but I'll have to ask you try not to indulge in the temptation in this thread.
It seems you've already undertaken proceedings in another channel, so It'd be preferred if you could leave such discussions in that arena and not drag them back here. As I mentioned earlier, the viewpoints between the Clans are only getting more Polarized so this doesn't serve much purpose other than to antagonise. So In this case, it's better to refrain from commenting at all since your arguments are obviously unlikely to be appreciated.

Same for CoF, if you feel josko's claims are groundless, there's no need to respond to them in this topic.

CD's & MH's will all take requisite evidence into account, so please address concerns to those parties rather than here.

Doc_Brown wrote:
Foxglove wrote:
krikee wrote:Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, my friend. Haven't you heard?


I think what's happening here is more of a return volley.


Agreed and understood. Just don't be surprised if the smattering of pebbles you and the other Korties sent our way over the past few weeks has its own return. ;)

I'm sure there's been a sufficient amount from both sides. This isn't the place to count the quantity but rather avoid throwing them in the first place.

Again, if you feel there's some grievous oversight you need to address, pm the individual and don't feel inclined to rebut in a public fora where the only the only thing harmed is inter-clan relations.

For the rest, you've proven you can obviously play nice, so please continue to do so :)

Ok Leehar, I posted what I wanted (Dako asked for exact clarification, CoF accused me in public first so I just replied in the same manner), next step is reporting it to officials (tomorrow or Saturday) together with another evidence not posted here, from war vs PACK, I just need some time to collect all evidences into one post. I just acted to CoF how he acted to me in the same thread. Since the last 2 cases were done in recent very short period, I hope the doings will not be continued, to finish this war in fair way.
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Re: [CC3] SEMI FINALS KoRT vs TOFU 14-27

Postby Chariot of Fire on Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:45 pm

It seems you've already undertaken proceedings in another channel


lol, seriously?
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