[CL5] 1:KORT MVP:josko 2:ID MVP:M Chief 3:AQOH MVP:thelord

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Re: [CL5]-Clan League 5- main page

Postby Qwert on Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:33 pm

News- Empire and AOC withdraw from competition , and all hes played games will not be count.
QG2 and QG4 continue like 5th team groups. Qualification for Premier-Second-Third league stay same.
1st and 2nd will qualify for Premier
3rd and 4th will qualify for Second
5th will qualify for Third
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Re: [CL5]-Clan League 5- main page

Postby chapcrap on Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:04 am

qwert wrote:News- Empire and AOC withdraw from competition , and all hes played games will not be count.
QG2 and QG4 continue like 5th team groups. Qualification for Premier-Second-Third league stay same.
1st and 2nd will qualify for Premier
3rd and 4th will qualify for Second
5th will qualify for Third

What about qualification for a medal? We have less games now because of this, so we should either get to submit games with our players and have those count towards the game count or have a lowered game count down from 14. I recommend the former, but am fine with a game count of 12 instead of 14.
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Re: [CL5]-Clan League 5- main page

Postby josko.ri on Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:59 am

qwert wrote:News- Empire and AOC withdraw from competition , and all hes played games will not be count.
QG2 and QG4 continue like 5th team groups. Qualification for Premier-Second-Third league stay same.
1st and 2nd will qualify for Premier
3rd and 4th will qualify for Second
5th will qualify for Third

This is very unfair decision.

With this, the decision to sign out from CL5 will screw total conception of CL5.

What I suggest to make it more fair?

Scenario 1: Just finish normal their group matches. After that, for example if both AOC and EMP qualify in top 2 places, then award 2 the best 3rd placed clans of all 6 groups to enter in Division 1 in their place. Also award 2 the best 5th placed clans to enter to Division 2. Why that scenario is better than your decision? With your decision, some lower clans who had luck just to be draw into group with AOC/EMP wil now get golden ticket to Division 1. it is a big favor to them and huge unfavor to lower clans from other groups who need to beat one of top clans in order to enter Division 1.

Scenario 2: The same like Scenario 1, but can allow the new clan to continue competition in CL5 under new name. How? Award them place in Division 1 or Division 2 according to their the lowest placement in Phase 1. For example, if both AoC and EMP finishes second in their group then the new clan has legal right to be in Division 1, so there will still be one empty place which goes to the best 3rd placed clan. It is not favor to the new clan, it is harder way to achieve 2 times in 2 different groups placement in top 2, than to do it just one time like other clans need toi do in order to qualify for Div 1. If for example one clan finishes 1st and other clan finishes 3rd, then award the new clan place in Division 2 and also the best 3rd placed clan award the empty place in Division 1.

This will for sure in the best way hold the integrity of the tournament. Otherwise some clans will have way too big favor and groups will be very imbalanced. Your decision means that someone ranked lower than #24 in QG2 will have ensured place in Division 1, while someone ranked higher than #17 in QG6 will need to have a very hard fight in order to qualify for Division 1.
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Re: [CL5]-Clan League 5- main page

Postby Qwert on Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:16 am

qualification group phase
25*8=200 spots


League phase
Premier-25*22= 550 spots

Second-25*22=550 spots

third-25*18=450 spots

------------------------------

Total spots (Q+L) are 750 or 650 if you continue in third league.

game distribution per player
Low have 26 member (28 per player or 25 per player)
Fallen have 26 member (28 per player or 25 per player)
Risk have 20 member (37 per player or 32 per player)
VDLL have 34 member (22 per player or 19 per player)
AOK have 20 member (37 per player or 32 per player)

-----------------------------------------------------
consider that each player need to have minimum 14 played games to be qualify for medal award, still nobody are affected , and rule stay same.
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Re: [CL5]-Clan League 5- main page

Postby chapcrap on Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:21 am

qwert wrote:qualification group phase
25*8=200 spots


League phase
Premier-25*22= 550 spots

Second-25*22=550 spots

third-25*18=450 spots

------------------------------

Total spots (Q+L) are 750 or 650 if you continue in third league.

game distribution per player
Low have 26 member (28 per player or 25 per player)
Fallen have 26 member (28 per player or 25 per player)
Risk have 20 member (37 per player or 32 per player)
VDLL have 34 member (22 per player or 19 per player)
AOK have 20 member (37 per player or 32 per player)

-----------------------------------------------------
consider that each player need to have minimum 14 played games to be qualify for medal award, still nobody are affected , and rule stay same.


Consider that we lose 50 game spots. It's silly for us not to be able to use those. I'll submit my games against AoC for qualification in order to have my clan not lose out on game spots.
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Re: [CL5]-Clan League 5- main page

Postby BGtheBrain on Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:31 am

I really didnt pay attention to the AOC/Empire thing, but this seems kind of nuts. Not qwerts fault or anyones, but yeah.

Assuming history wouldve repeated itself AOC and EMP wouldve both finished #1 in their pool, maybe if they played bad #2.

Now theyre gone, and the teams all move up 1 spot AND play inferior competition but a clan who wouldve finished 3rd will now finish 2nd and get a spot in the premier?

Not a very fair shake to the others, but I dont know what else you can do about it.
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Re: [CL5]-Clan League 5- main page

Postby josko.ri on Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:54 am

BGtheBrain wrote:Not a very fair shake to the others, but I dont know what else you can do about it.

There is a fair way to all, which needs just a little good will and honesty from organizer and from AoC and EMP to be done in reality. EMP and AOC may play in old roster the remaining 32 games (is it too much to ask?) just to determine placement which they would got in their group. then their vacated places fill with the best next placed clans from any group. for example, if AOC finish first in the group, it means they earned place in Division 1, so then give it to the best placed #3 their place. if they finish 3rd in the group, then they earned position in Division 2, in which case their position can be taken by the best placed #5 clan. And you have the most fair solution for everyone in given circumstances.

josko.ri wrote:Scenario 1: Just finish normal their group matches. After that, for example if both AOC and EMP qualify in top 2 places, then award 2 the best 3rd placed clans of all 6 groups to enter in Division 1 in their place. Also award 2 the best 5th placed clans to enter to Division 2. Why that scenario is better than your decision? With your decision, some lower clans who had luck just to be draw into group with AOC/EMP wil now get golden ticket to Division 1. it is a big favor to them and huge unfavor to lower clans from other groups who need to beat one of top clans in order to enter Division 1.
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Re: [CL5]-Clan League 5- main page

Postby BGtheBrain on Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:00 am

I think thats a good start, but I think a safe assumption could be made that the #1 clan in the group wouldve advanced anyways. I would do #1 gets premier, 2-3 go to second and 4-5 go to third.
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Re: [CL5]-Clan League 5- main page

Postby Qwert on Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:31 am

decision are made, and its will stay.
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Re: [CL5]-Clan League 5- main page

Postby BGtheBrain on Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:34 am

I wouldnt expect otherwise.

I have no problem continuing to ramble.
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Re: [CL5]-Clan League 5- main page

Postby chapcrap on Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:35 am

chapcrap wrote:
qwert wrote:qualification group phase
25*8=200 spots


League phase
Premier-25*22= 550 spots

Second-25*22=550 spots

third-25*18=450 spots

------------------------------

Total spots (Q+L) are 750 or 650 if you continue in third league.

game distribution per player
Low have 26 member (28 per player or 25 per player)
Fallen have 26 member (28 per player or 25 per player)
Risk have 20 member (37 per player or 32 per player)
VDLL have 34 member (22 per player or 19 per player)
AOK have 20 member (37 per player or 32 per player)

-----------------------------------------------------
consider that each player need to have minimum 14 played games to be qualify for medal award, still nobody are affected , and rule stay same.


Consider that we lose 50 game spots. It's silly for us not to be able to use those. I'll submit my games against AoC for qualification in order to have my clan not lose out on game spots.

qwert wrote:decision are made, and its will stay.

Well this is not a very smart decision. We end up having 6% less game spots than other clans if we're in the top two leagues and 19% less game spots if in the bottom league and we have to keep the same medal qualification rules? First of all, that's not fair. Second, I don't think it's your decision on who is eligible for medals. It's the CDs.
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Re: [CL5]-Clan League 5- main page

Postby Qwert on Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:42 am

chapcrap wrote:
chapcrap wrote:
qwert wrote:qualification group phase
25*8=200 spots


League phase
Premier-25*22= 550 spots

Second-25*22=550 spots

third-25*18=450 spots

------------------------------

Total spots (Q+L) are 750 or 650 if you continue in third league.

game distribution per player
Low have 26 member (28 per player or 25 per player)
Fallen have 26 member (28 per player or 25 per player)
Risk have 20 member (37 per player or 32 per player)
VDLL have 34 member (22 per player or 19 per player)
AOK have 20 member (37 per player or 32 per player)

-----------------------------------------------------
consider that each player need to have minimum 14 played games to be qualify for medal award, still nobody are affected , and rule stay same.


Consider that we lose 50 game spots. It's silly for us not to be able to use those. I'll submit my games against AoC for qualification in order to have my clan not lose out on game spots.

qwert wrote:decision are made, and its will stay.

Well this is not a very smart decision. We end up having 6% less game spots than other clans if we're in the top two leagues and 19% less game spots if in the bottom league and we have to keep the same medal qualification rules? First of all, that's not fair. Second, I don't think it's your decision on who is eligible for medals. It's the CDs.


Ok, i dont know what you play, but these mine last post
qwert wrote:decision are made, and its will stay.

are related on AOC-EMP case, so what are your game here?
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Re: [CL5]-Clan League 5- main page

Postby Qwert on Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:37 am

f----finished
d----decided

QG1
R5
GR-LEG 0-1
PIG-CF 0-0
DBC-TOFU 1-1
R6
DBC-GR 0-1
TOFU-PIG 1-0
CF-LEG 1-3

QG2
R5
TLW-WAR 1-2
MYTH-MB 2-0
R6
LOTZ-TLW 1-3
MB-WAR 0-5----------d

QG3
R5
FOED-DYN 0-2
ID-UM8 1-0
SOH-AFOS 0-1
R6
SOH-FOED 0-1
AFOS-ID 1-0
UM8-DYN 1-2

QG4
R5
FALL-VDLL 0-0
LOW-AOK 0-0
R6
RA-FALL 0-1
AOK-VDLL 0-0

QG5
R5
MD-OTP 1-2
TFFS-AQOH 1-1
MM-IA 0-0
R6
MM-MD 2-0
IA-TFFS 0-1
AQOH-OTP 0-1

QG6
R5
TNC-HH 3-0
OSA-DB 0-1
LHDD-KORT 0-0
R6
LHDD-TNC 1-1
KORT-OSA 1-1
DB-HH 1-1
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Re: [CL5]-Clan League 5- main page

Postby Crazyirishman on Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:34 pm

According to josko, this is our division now:
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Re: [CL5]-Clan League 5- main page

Postby angola on Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:18 pm

We were headed toward second or third place in our division anyway. I think it's a tad unfair to act as though Fallen and LOW were guaranteed to finish below us.
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Re: [CL5]-Clan League 5- main page

Postby chemefreak on Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:31 pm

All -

Do not fret regarding medal eligibility. We will appropriately consider all participants for medals, especially in light of the changes that are happening. No need to submit phantom lists of players and games. It will all work out in the end. I promise. Thanks!

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Re: [CL5]-Clan League 5- main page

Postby IcePack on Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:11 pm

angola wrote:We were headed toward second or third place in our division anyway. I think it's a tad unfair to act as though Fallen and LOW were guaranteed to finish below us.


Yeah, AOC is a great and respected clan but there was a good chance of the above happening.
Auto deciding that FALL and LOW would somehow fail to have a chance @ #1 is pretty poor choice based on results so far.
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12:15:35 ‹Swifte› well that's just bad timing
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Re: [CL5]-Clan League 5- main page

Postby Crazyirishman on Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:03 pm

IcePack wrote:
angola wrote:We were headed toward second or third place in our division anyway. I think it's a tad unfair to act as though Fallen and LOW were guaranteed to finish below us.


Yeah, AOC is a great and respected clan but there was a good chance of the above happening.
Auto deciding that FALL and LOW would somehow fail to have a chance @ #1 is pretty poor choice based on results so far.


Thanks Angola,

I think that it would have been a bit of a 3 way dogfight for the top 2 spots, likely coming down to a tiebreaker. Our division was a bit tougher from the start because of the way the seedings worked out.
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Re: [CL5]-Clan League 5- main page

Postby josko.ri on Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:01 pm

IcePack wrote:
angola wrote:We were headed toward second or third place in our division anyway. I think it's a tad unfair to act as though Fallen and LOW were guaranteed to finish below us.


Yeah, AOC is a great and respected clan but there was a good chance of the above happening.
Auto deciding that FALL and LOW would somehow fail to have a chance @ #1 is pretty poor choice based on results so far.

What about clan who will end 5th will now get golden ticket to Division 2? I used example how it is unfair someone who ends 3rd gets entrance to Div1 but the same unfairmess is someone 5th enter Div2
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Re: [CL5]-Clan League 5- main page

Postby jj3044 on Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:27 pm

josko.ri wrote:
BGtheBrain wrote:Not a very fair shake to the others, but I dont know what else you can do about it.

There is a fair way to all, which needs just a little good will and honesty from organizer and from AoC and EMP to be done in reality. EMP and AOC may play in old roster the remaining 32 games (is it too much to ask?) just to determine placement which they would got in their group. then their vacated places fill with the best next placed clans from any group. for example, if AOC finish first in the group, it means they earned place in Division 1, so then give it to the best placed #3 their place. if they finish 3rd in the group, then they earned position in Division 2, in which case their position can be taken by the best placed #5 clan. And you have the most fair solution for everyone in given circumstances.

josko.ri wrote:Scenario 1: Just finish normal their group matches. After that, for example if both AOC and EMP qualify in top 2 places, then award 2 the best 3rd placed clans of all 6 groups to enter in Division 1 in their place. Also award 2 the best 5th placed clans to enter to Division 2. Why that scenario is better than your decision? With your decision, some lower clans who had luck just to be draw into group with AOC/EMP wil now get golden ticket to Division 1. it is a big favor to them and huge unfavor to lower clans from other groups who need to beat one of top clans in order to enter Division 1.

I'll just respond to this post quick... it actually would have been both EMP and AOC's preference to not drop out, but we had to weigh our options here. If either/both of us had continued in the league and had active EMP or AOC clan games going, we would not be able to enter the Conquorer's Cup as we still had active games going. To us, participating in the CC was more important.
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Re: [CL5]-Clan League 5- main page

Postby chapcrap on Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:36 pm

jj3044 wrote:
josko.ri wrote:
BGtheBrain wrote:Not a very fair shake to the others, but I dont know what else you can do about it.

There is a fair way to all, which needs just a little good will and honesty from organizer and from AoC and EMP to be done in reality. EMP and AOC may play in old roster the remaining 32 games (is it too much to ask?) just to determine placement which they would got in their group. then their vacated places fill with the best next placed clans from any group. for example, if AOC finish first in the group, it means they earned place in Division 1, so then give it to the best placed #3 their place. if they finish 3rd in the group, then they earned position in Division 2, in which case their position can be taken by the best placed #5 clan. And you have the most fair solution for everyone in given circumstances.

josko.ri wrote:Scenario 1: Just finish normal their group matches. After that, for example if both AOC and EMP qualify in top 2 places, then award 2 the best 3rd placed clans of all 6 groups to enter in Division 1 in their place. Also award 2 the best 5th placed clans to enter to Division 2. Why that scenario is better than your decision? With your decision, some lower clans who had luck just to be draw into group with AOC/EMP wil now get golden ticket to Division 1. it is a big favor to them and huge unfavor to lower clans from other groups who need to beat one of top clans in order to enter Division 1.

I'll just respond to this post quick... it actually would have been both EMP and AOC's preference to not drop out, but we had to weigh our options here. If either/both of us had continued in the league and had active EMP or AOC clan games going, we would not be able to enter the Conquorer's Cup as we still had active games going. To us, participating in the CC was more important.


You can't enter it anyway unless you finish two wars in the next two weeks...
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Re: [CL5]-Clan League 5- main page

Postby IcePack on Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:38 pm

Doesn't CCup require one war under the new clan as well?
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12:11:16 ‹Swifte› good thing we have the beta program to weed all these problems out
12:15:00 * IcePack joins Social
12:15:35 ‹Swifte› well that's just bad timing
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Re: [CL5]-Clan League 5- main page

Postby hyposquasher on Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:54 am

chapcrap wrote:
jj3044 wrote:I'll just respond to this post quick... it actually would have been both EMP and AOC's preference to not drop out, but we had to weigh our options here. If either/both of us had continued in the league and had active EMP or AOC clan games going, we would not be able to enter the Conquorer's Cup as we still had active games going. To us, participating in the CC was more important.


You can't enter it anyway unless you finish two wars in the next two weeks...



IcePack wrote:Doesn't CCup require one war under the new clan as well?



We aren't a new clan. This is a merger of two existing clans that have all of the necessary credentials to participate in CC4.

Unfortunately there is no clean way on conquerclub to merge two clans cleanly. In the eyes of CL5 there was no clean way for the merged clan to continue on in CL5 in place of either of the separate clans, so we were forced to drop out.
Last edited by hyposquasher on Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [CL5]-Clan League 5- main page

Postby BGtheBrain on Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:56 am

If you arent new, I think one of the clans shouldve stayed in CL5. I dont think this was the clans fault themselves because Id imagine they wouldve wanted to stay in it.
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Re: [CL5]-Clan League 5- main page

Postby hyposquasher on Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:57 am

BGtheBrain wrote:If you arent new, I think one of the clans shouldve stayed in CL5. I dont think this was the clans fault themselves because Id imagine they wouldve wanted to stay in it.


Sorry BG, I had just edited my last post with a line that addresses this. Unfortunately the CD's running CL5 would not permit us to stay in the tourney. You are right, we would have loved to!
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