[CC2] 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Finished challenges between two competitive clans.

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Re: 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby danryan on Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:44 am

The rule changes and challenge sizes may have had an impact as well.
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Re: 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby Leehar on Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:14 am

I'm just interested in why Quarters has more games on face value than Semi's or the Final. Obviously a different scenario if there are ties, but it still feels a bit weird to see it as is.

Also, any specific reason to have World 2.1 as the tiebreaks? There's no support for random, or maybe just looking at a poll of the most popular map?
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Re: 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby lord voldemort on Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:14 am

i think it was decided in cla forums...i assume...
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Re: 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby jpcloet on Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:21 am

Stats were provided on all the CLA League Map Choices, and it (World 2.1) was decided by the organizer. There was no vote but based on the number of specialty maps used as "home maps", this was a good choice IMO.
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Re: 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby jpcloet on Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:26 am

I would like clarification of:

"When games are sent, they must already be created, however, they do not have to be fully joined by home team yet. TheSpaceCowboy and myself should be copied in the private message sending each clans home games. Once home games are sent, each clan has 5 full days to fill the games. "

That means clans may walk the line on fog games. My requirement has always been that the home team must fully join before my away team joins, and assumes the full risk of choosing fog.
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Re: 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby jpcloet on Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:02 am

Can you post the updated version of the Power Rankings?

Before the tournament starts, seedings will be given out. The seedings will be determined by the latest power ranking votes found here viewtopic.php?f=438&t=118748

Or are you going to use July of last year?
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Re: 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby chemefreak on Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:13 am

++The Legion++ is in.

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Re: 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby Chuuuuck on Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:21 am

Yes, jp, I will clarify about home teams being joined first. I also will try to have the power rankings up ASAP. Just haven't had time to combine them as of late.
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Re: 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby denominator on Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:21 pm

Death By Comity is in.

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Re: 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby Lubawski on Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:41 pm

Leehar wrote:I'm just interested in why Quarters has more games on face value than Semi's or the Final. Obviously a different scenario if there are ties, but it still feels a bit weird to see it as is.


There is a more in depth tie breaker in the last two rounds I believe. The bigger tie breaker was discussed, but one of the biggest problems with CC1 was that it was really dragging on. CLA reps decided it was better to make the extra game early on to prevent ties rather than have it drawn out, but once we get to 4 clans left, that kind of drama is REALLY exciting.

Leehar wrote:Also, any specific reason to have World 2.1 as the tiebreaks? There's no support for random, or maybe just looking at a poll of the most popular map?


What JP said, except that several CLA reps chimed in and agreed that this was a good decision (Too many clans are afraid that random could kill the fun of things if that odd numbered game ended up being something terrible--which is a valid point. Could you imagine trips Luxembourg being the deciding game in a challenge?). The 2.1 decision wasn't as unilateral as JP made it seem.
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Re: 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby Lubawski on Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:43 pm

Chuuuuck wrote:Yes, jp, I will clarify about home teams being joined first. I also will try to have the power rankings up ASAP. Just haven't had time to combine them as of late.


Those power rankings are really old Chuck. I submitted mine over 4 months ago. A lot has happened since then. Do you think it is possible to have all clan leaders who are participating in the Cup submit power rankings (only for those involved) when sign-ups close. If we could get a one or two day turn around I think it would be possible.
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Re: 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby Dako on Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:52 pm

TOFU is in.

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Re: 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby Chuuuuck on Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:36 pm

I asked for the votes half way through December and still received some around the new year. They aren't that old. You really want to do them again?
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Re: 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby Lubawski on Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:47 pm

Chuuuuck wrote:I asked for the votes half way through December and still received some around the new year. They aren't that old. You really want to do them again?


For selfish reasons, yes. I think we are higher standing now than we were before the clan season ended. Same with both Myth and Devil's Brigade. Other clans, who I know I ranked pretty high turned out to be pretty poor in the league (and recent challenges since then). I just think things should be current. Some of the clans in here I don't even think were created at the time, but have shown up in challenges since and are looking either pretty good (better than a new clan--like TFFS) or pretty poor. I just think we should have fairly accurate (and recent) rankings to go by. You asked for them before December I think. I swear I answered those in November. If not, time is going really slow.
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Re: 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby Bruceswar on Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:31 pm

Personally Seeding means jack shit. As long as you are not in the play in group then all is OK. If you are on the edge of the play in / in then you will also be OK as some clans are likely not to be playing again. Past that seeds mean nothing.. If you are good enough you will be able to take on anybody and do well. Remember you guys were the 4th seed(bumped to 3rd due to TSM sitting out) I am sure everybody will be seeded close to where they need to be. If not just win and things will take care of themselves.
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Re: 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby Commander9 on Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:00 pm

I'm rather excited about participating in this. Best of luck to all the clans in this great even and can't wait to face at least some of you in the battlefield.
But... It was so artistically done.
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Re: 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby Chariot of Fire on Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:08 am

Question.....

You have stipulated that games sent must already have been created. This makes it very easy via Game Finder to check what games your opponents have created. The only way to avoid this (and retain that rule) is to create one's games at the very last minute, which unfortunately will only serve to encourage unnecessary delays.

If you wish to adhere to this rule of games having to be created then the deadline should stipulate what time you are working to (e.g. midnight EST, GMT, etc) and not simply a date.

The alternative is to abolish this rule and replace it with a system whereby each clan PMs the game details to the TO who, upon receipt of a PM from each clan, instructs the two parties to create the games in accordance with the details submitted.

Cheers, and looking forward to a much fairer tournament this time round.
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Re: 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby Lubawski on Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:33 am

Bruceswar wrote:Personally Seeding means jack shit. As long as you are not in the play in group then all is OK. If you are on the edge of the play in / in then you will also be OK as some clans are likely not to be playing again. Past that seeds mean nothing.. If you are good enough you will be able to take on anybody and do well. Remember you guys were the 4th seed(bumped to 3rd due to TSM sitting out) I am sure everybody will be seeded close to where they need to be. If not just win and things will take care of themselves.


I disagree. I don't think it will make all that much difference to the perennial favorites, but to clans who really gained ground (in my opinion) like Myth, DB, AoC it does matter. While others who I know I rated above those three have really tanked since then. It will make a pretty big difference whether someone is rated between the 7-11 rather than the 15+
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Re: 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby jpcloet on Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:44 am

Lubawski wrote:I disagree. I don't think it will make all that much difference to the perennial favorites, but to clans who really gained ground (in my opinion) like Myth, DB, AoC it does matter. While others who I know I rated above those three have really tanked since then. It will make a pretty big difference whether someone is rated between the 7-11 rather than the 15+


Agreed, it may even extend to 7-20+ depending on how many sign up and the final structure of the bracket.
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Re: 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby Qwert on Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:53 am

L4D in 21 place- hmm, its look that results not mean nothing, these is realy to much subjective way of determine ranking.
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Re: 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby pearljamrox2 on Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:41 am

Dynasty is in.


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Re: 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby TheSaxlad on Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:10 am

T4C are in,

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Re: 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby TheSaxlad on Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:16 am

also on the subjects of rankings, t4c arent even in the july rankings as we were set up some time in August. I know we will be close to the bottom if not at the bottom of the rankings, but it still makes sense to give us a chance to escape the play in rounds rather than condemn us straight away...
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Re: 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby Bruceswar on Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:38 pm

Lubawski wrote:
Bruceswar wrote:Personally Seeding means jack shit. As long as you are not in the play in group then all is OK. If you are on the edge of the play in / in then you will also be OK as some clans are likely not to be playing again. Past that seeds mean nothing.. If you are good enough you will be able to take on anybody and do well. Remember you guys were the 4th seed(bumped to 3rd due to TSM sitting out) I am sure everybody will be seeded close to where they need to be. If not just win and things will take care of themselves.


I disagree. I don't think it will make all that much difference to the perennial favorites, but to clans who really gained ground (in my opinion) like Myth, DB, AoC it does matter. While others who I know I rated above those three have really tanked since then. It will make a pretty big difference whether someone is rated between the 7-11 rather than the 15+



This reminds me of the age old talk of NCAA March Madness... The whole idea is to win right? As long as you make the dance anything is possible.
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Re: 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby the.killing.44 on Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:47 pm

Bruceswar wrote:
Lubawski wrote:
Bruceswar wrote:Personally Seeding means jack shit. As long as you are not in the play in group then all is OK. If you are on the edge of the play in / in then you will also be OK as some clans are likely not to be playing again. Past that seeds mean nothing.. If you are good enough you will be able to take on anybody and do well. Remember you guys were the 4th seed(bumped to 3rd due to TSM sitting out) I am sure everybody will be seeded close to where they need to be. If not just win and things will take care of themselves.


I disagree. I don't think it will make all that much difference to the perennial favorites, but to clans who really gained ground (in my opinion) like Myth, DB, AoC it does matter. While others who I know I rated above those three have really tanked since then. It will make a pretty big difference whether someone is rated between the 7-11 rather than the 15+



This reminds me of the age old talk of NCAA March Madness... The whole idea is to win right? As long as you make the dance anything is possible.

That's not a valid comparison in the least, seeing how we're not playing 1 game.

But I see no reason to redo the rankings if we're using ones that are—egads—just over one whole month old! Hell, you guys (Empire) were ranked #3, if you want a measure of their usefullness.
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