[CC2] 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Finished challenges between two competitive clans.

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Re: [CC2] 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby angola on Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:46 am

jrh_cardinal wrote:
angola wrote:So, seven of the top eight seeds reached the quarterfinals.

I guess the rankings were pretty spot on then.

Nope, not yet at least. We're still 20-19 over BOFM with 2 games still very undecided.

The rankings were okay, but I wouldn't go near spot on. #24 beat #9 for starters. No way that should happen in a 40 game challenge, and that's on the rankings, TFFS showed before this they're at least a top 20 clan.


Ahh, you are very right. I was thinking of the top eight only.

And TFFS is very good. If they had more depth, they'd be a top 10 clan in my opinion.
Last edited by angola on Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [CC2] 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby angola on Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:47 am

Bruceswar wrote:
angola wrote:So, seven of the top eight seeds reached the quarterfinals.

I guess the rankings were pretty spot on then.



Now is your time to shine and take out THOTA. Lets see what AOC is made of!


We'll try our hardest.
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Re: [CC2] 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby Namor on Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:13 pm

Incandenza wrote:
Lubawski wrote:Let's hope for a more civil next round...which I think can be guaranteed.


I dunno, I've been meaning to call Namor a fuckface for some time now. :lol:


:lol: yeah, love you too...

... just so you know, we still have an edge to the weapons we used on The Foreskins.
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Re: [CC2] 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby Incandenza on Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:50 pm

Namor wrote:
Incandenza wrote:
Lubawski wrote:Let's hope for a more civil next round...which I think can be guaranteed.


I dunno, I've been meaning to call Namor a fuckface for some time now. :lol:


:lol: yeah, love you too...

... just so you know, we still have an edge to the weapons we used on The Foreskins.


It'd be more threatening if it were dull, Alan Rickman style.
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Re: [CC2] 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby Dako on Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:22 pm

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VDvgL58h_Y]Spoon[/ulr] would be a good choice as well.
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Re: [CC2] 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby stahrgazer on Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:32 am

From Clan Medals thread.

You know, if this really is CC's thinking, then any of these larger matches need to start being rank discriminatory. Maybe next year's cup should be limited only to the top 8 seed perceptions. :roll:

Really pisses me off to have a medal denied or delayed because my clan is considered to have FARMED for a medal just because we joined a larger skirmish series.


stahrgazer wrote:
chemefreak wrote:
Dako wrote:It was not #4 vs #34 because our rankings are not official and are based on perceptions. So they do not mean the strength of the clan, they mean only the seeding position. Yes, they are reflection the strength, but it is not a precise reflection at all.


These #s are actually based on the unofficial ladder, not perception. With a few hundred challenges on it now, it is actually looking pretty accurate. Now, even if perception were built in, who here seriously thinks that OSA vs LoW was an evenly weighted war or "fair fight" (besides LoW and OSA)?

Or is this still you TOFU guys sore about not getting medals for the T4C challenge? :lol: Btw, I probably wouldn't hold my breath on that one. I don't care how much any formula is tweaked for that one, I don't see that ever happening.


No, it's about ridiculous arbitrary changes in rules based on, "because I said so."

It's about being penalized because Chuuuuck welcomed more teams in his matches than the other cup welcomed in theirs.

It's about, just because a clan is new, does not mean the PLAYERS in the clan are new to CC or to clans or clan wars (the Pack, in the Newcomer's cup, is an example of a "new clan" led by experienced clanners.)

It's about the fact that the initial annoucement about clan war medals saying NOTHING about any possible 'farming' problem; just a requirement for number of games.

It's about the fact that Chuuuck didn't make those 'seedings' based on a ladder, he took votes from all the participating clans, which is PERCEPTION not "unofficial ladder."

It's about the fact that ALL, not just SOME of these Cup skirmishes meet the requirements for medals.

It's also about the fact that Legends of War didn't join a Conqueror's Cup skirmish so we could "farm" and by denying our rightful awards for winning against first OSA and then Legion, you are implying that that's what we did. And you're implying that everyone else who had to play in a play-in round (that LoW didn't want to have to play, by the way) and 16-games round joined because they got a chance to "farm."
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Re: [CC2] 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby SirSebstar on Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:42 am

stahrgazer wrote:From Clan Medals thread.
You know, if this really is CC's thinking, then any of these larger matches need to start being rank discriminatory. Maybe next year's cup should be limited only to the top 8 seed perceptions. :roll:

Really pisses me off to have a medal denied or delayed because my clan is considered to have FARMED for a medal just because we joined a larger skirmish series.

What?
You guys did not get a medal, did anybody else in the same round? i am a bit confused here. care to clarify?
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Re: [CC2] 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby stahrgazer on Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:33 am

SirSebstar wrote:
stahrgazer wrote:From Clan Medals thread.
You know, if this really is CC's thinking, then any of these larger matches need to start being rank discriminatory. Maybe next year's cup should be limited only to the top 8 seed perceptions. :roll:

Really pisses me off to have a medal denied or delayed because my clan is considered to have FARMED for a medal just because we joined a larger skirmish series.

What?
You guys did not get a medal, did anybody else in the same round? i am a bit confused here. care to clarify?



Other Cup series seed top v bottom and got medals.

Answer given for that is because none of the players in the other cup series is elite enough to "be considered farming" and yet, according to Conquer Club rules, farming is the systematic attempt to take advantage, and one or two games isn't supposed to be evidence; taking that to clan wars, one or two wars shouldn't be considered evidence of farming either.

Only in someone's arbitrary delusions would participation in a series be considered farming that was open only to experienced clans, experience being defined as having completed two wars.

By denying or delaying these medals, you imply that LoW and the other top clans joined a larger series in order to farm.

Thus, you imply that the Conqueror's Cup should be renamed, "Farmer's Cup."

To prevent that, Chuuuck should change the 3rd annual to allow only the top 16 clans.

Then again, since whatever roster is being used to determine 'farming' is, by mod words, "unofficial" it shouldn't be used at all.

"Farming" is not legal on the site. Any clan who farms shouldn't just not get a medal, they should be given disciplinary action.

If it's not "farming" enough to warrant disciplinary action, then it's not farming, is it?

But if it is farming, then Chuuuck needs to change the cup to prevent this illegal action from taking place.

And while we're at it, no experienced clan should ever accept a newer clan's challenge anymore; Farming is illegal on the site so if they're farming to accept, then they should refuse the challenge.
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Re: [CC2] 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby SirSebstar on Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:43 pm

You are mixing up the site rule of farming noobs with clanfarming. 2 completely different things, I would have thought you knew that.
No clanmedals will be given if a clanwar is deemed unfair in the eyes of the TD. It is assumed that any game but the finals or the final 4 is not going to recieve a clanwar medal.
Try to compare it with a multi event tournament. You can only get a medal for actually winning the damm thing. If you won an underlying tournament that awards you the finals spot, you do not also get another medal for winning the finals
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Re: [CC2] 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby nippersean on Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:15 pm

Well I don't give a monkey's wank about medals myself, but does anyone think any of the last 16 matchups was a clan farming job?
Any of the last 8? Please explain which clans and why. BOTFM if they beat TOFU? 'tis farming?
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Re: [CC2] 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby danryan on Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:34 pm

nippersean wrote:Well I don't give a monkey's wank about medals myself, but does anyone think any of the last 16 matchups was a clan farming job?
Any of the last 8? Please explain which clans and why. BOTFM if they beat TOFU? 'tis farming?


I can't hear you over the sound of my combine harvester. Can you speak up?
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Re: [CC2] 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby nippersean on Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:42 pm

danryan wrote:
nippersean wrote:Well I don't give a monkey's wank about medals myself, but does anyone think any of the last 16 matchups was a clan farming job?
Any of the last 8? Please explain which clans and why. BOTFM if they beat TOFU? 'tis farming?


I can't hear you over the sound of my combine harvester. Can you speak up?


lol, we should get 1 for LOTZ tho, i'm sure this will be sorted shortly, hopefully before Stahr posts again, but LOW vs TSM in a 61 game clan cup challenge - it doesn't count as a clan challenge? Please explain.
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Re: [CC2] 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby stahrgazer on Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:45 pm

SirSebstar wrote:You are mixing up the site rule of farming noobs with clanfarming. 2 completely different things, I would have thought you knew that.
No clanmedals will be given if a clanwar is deemed unfair in the eyes of the TD. It is assumed that any game but the finals or the final 4 is not going to recieve a clanwar medal.
Try to compare it with a multi event tournament. You can only get a medal for actually winning the damm thing. If you won an underlying tournament that awards you the finals spot, you do not also get another medal for winning the finals


Then the final 8 and final 4 aren't getting clan war medals, but a tournament medal for the conqueror's cup?

That's the only thing that makes sense if you're pulling this horse patooey

and since I never EVER saw an official definition of "clanfarming" it's horse patooey anyway. but if there is one? it should be in accordance with site rules for other types of farming

otherwise, why the f* should any top clan want to be bothered with 41- plus skirmishes against peons since it's not recognized?

Oh, and if that's the case? then any of those "wins" those top clans make should not count in any win percentage for any ranking purposes whatsoever.

But which ranking system is being used? A not-too-long-ago news thread discussed not one, not two, not three, but four EXISTING rank systems and an additional one being evaluated/created because none of those other four were deemed worthy enough.

Perspective again.

It's my perspective that this whole thing is a crock.

Especially on a site that CLAIMS they don't want "rank bias"

"Clan farming" should be defined similarly to "noob farming" - inappropriate if done repeatedly; innocent if just giving some new clans a swing at the experienced fellas.

and should never have been applied to serial skirmishes.

And, your assessment of only giving top 4 or winner a medal is in the garbage when at the same time, you look, and a different "clan tournament" series is being given medals for ALL rounds.

Existing interpretations are full of reverse-Rank bias. Newcomers can earn clan war medals for clan tournaments, ALL rounds (they have, go look!), but participants in a series that's less discriminatory (but still requires EXPERIENCED clans) cannot.

(THOTA, did you forget to bags on your horses during the last parade? I'm seeing a lot of horsesh*t all over the place and wonder where it came from :lol: )

p.s. OSA had a chance to beat us. Slim perhaps, but at least three of the games they lost (probably more, but I was personally in 3 so know what happened in those) was primarily due to one of their members deadbeating (which overcame drop and early dice effects and resulted in Legends taking the games after all). So what if they'd won, would they have gotten a medal? They would've deserved it, wouldn't they?

p.p.s. nippersean, I hear that things "might" be sorted by the end of June.

Meanwhile, there's still this existing inconsistency in determining what occurs re: clan war medals with "serial clan tournaments" and that shouldn't be.
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Re: [CC2] 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby Leehar on Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:29 pm

nippersean wrote:
danryan wrote:
nippersean wrote:Well I don't give a monkey's wank about medals myself, but does anyone think any of the last 16 matchups was a clan farming job?
Any of the last 8? Please explain which clans and why. BOTFM if they beat TOFU? 'tis farming?


I can't hear you over the sound of my combine harvester. Can you speak up?


lol, we should get 1 for LOTZ tho, i'm sure this will be sorted shortly, hopefully before Stahr posts again, but LOW vs TSM in a 61 game clan cup challenge - it doesn't count as a clan challenge? Please explain.

It does doesn't it?
I think it was only the first couple of rounds that weren't applicable for medals.
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Re: [CC2] 2nd Annual Conqueror's Cup!!

Postby dwilhelmi on Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:48 am

stahrgazer wrote:And, your assessment of only giving top 4 or winner a medal is in the garbage when at the same time, you look, and a different "clan tournament" series is being given medals for ALL rounds.

Existing interpretations are full of reverse-Rank bias. Newcomers can earn clan war medals for clan tournaments, ALL rounds (they have, go look!), but participants in a series that's less discriminatory (but still requires EXPERIENCED clans) cannot.

Totally different scenario. The Newcomers tournament is designed for new clans to flex their muscles a bit. Giving them medals for victories there makes sense, not least of which because since they are all new clans, rank should most likely be pretty close to even, while the same is not true at all in this tournament.

No slight intended towards Newcomers, but that is kinda like comparing trophy systems between Little League and the Majors. Different setup, different scenario, plausible different rule set.

Not necessarily siding with either group here, I personally am still neutral on this topic, but just wanted to throw that thought out there for your consideration stahrgazer.
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