[ACC] The All Comers Cup - Final

Finished challenges between two competitive clans.

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Re: [ACC] The All Comers Cup - Semi-Finals

Postby Teflon Kris on Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:07 am

Leehar wrote:So Bofm will advance to these technicalities? Seems kinda lame, no offence


The scoring system was discussed at length at the beginning of the tournament. It was designed for exactly this kind of scenario, where extended games (such as no spoils, adjacent Hive) would have otherwise stalled the tournament from progressing. If the game in question is not concluded by the end of 25 rounds then the game is declared a draw for tournament purposes.

The winning team will advance by virtue of having scored more points, the sane technicality that has applied throughout the tournament.

This is another of those close battles, fortunately not affected by false accusations.

:D

Round 25 has started in the final game so it will be either won or drawn soon.

Again, in the final, my Tournamanet Assistant, jghost7, will be on hand for independant decisions at Tournament Organiser level.

:D
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Re: [ACC] The All Comers Cup - Semi-Finals

Postby danryan on Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:17 am

FOED will win more games in the challenge but BOFM will advance. Well done mermaids, you won the rules game even if you couldn't win more games in the challenge.

And with that, gl in the final.

Edit: because of course this was all about not stalling the tournament. k thx bye.
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Re: [ACC] The All Comers Cup - Semi-Finals

Postby L M S on Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:06 am

Dynasty vs. *BotFM

how exciting.

I gotta go with *BotFM in the finals to win...You guys have the skill but to win easily, but they have the law on their side, sorry Dynasty.
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Re: [ACC] The All Comers Cup - Semi-Finals

Postby HippieBroker on Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:28 pm

congrats mermaids. and good luck in the finals.

Not very often a team ends up losing the war but advances! Congratulations! You've set a precedent!

And DJ... I believe the 25 round limit was put in to avoid "stalemates" that delayed the tourney. The hive game is not a stalemate...the outcome is decided...it is a foed win. I think even you mermaids can acknowledge that!

you have other games in this tourney that have gone past 25 rounds. So why is that not allowed here?
No need to respond to that. Everyone already knows why.

in the grand scheme of things this doesn't matter at all. it is only an online game.
Still a pretty lousy way to lose a war....when you don't actually lose!

Enjoy the finals!
May you have less drama than you did in this one!
cheers
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Re: [ACC] The All Comers Cup - Semi-Finals

Postby Commander9 on Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:31 pm

Congratulations to BotFM for a completely deserved win in the semi-finals with ability to advance even with managing to lose more games, lose a tie breaker and managing to apply that was done to avoid stalemates to help decide the outcome of the game that was not a stalemate and that would have ended really soon to their favour. What an awesome, fair bunch just filled with integrity you are :)

Again congrats and good luck in the finals with Dynasty - although I'm sure you won't need that :) See if perhaps you'd apply some other rules around that didn't apply to this tournament in general, but would apply just for the final alone. Heck, I'm sure DJ can do it :)
But... It was so artistically done.
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Re: [ACC] The All Comers Cup - Semi-Finals

Postby Leehar on Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:41 pm

Yeah, as sorrowful as it is, I can't see how this outcome can't go down in the same cloud as the Kort win in the semi-finals of another top tier clan competition. More's the pity
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Re: [ACC] The All Comers Cup - Semi-Finals

Postby Draq on Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:54 pm

Aww all theese cute congratulations from the boys in FOED. I´m moved to tears! Thanks bubs! :-({|=
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Re: [ACC] The All Comers Cup - Semi-Finals

Postby Royal Panda on Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:06 pm

Well done FOED on winning the war, undefeated through a tough competition is good going! Might well end up being the only team to manage it if Dynasty lose!
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Re: [ACC] The All Comers Cup - Semi-Finals

Postby hotfire on Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:50 pm

i would feel for foed if it wasnt their own damn fault in choosing their homemap as hive in a 25 round limit tournament...
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Re: [ACC] The All Comers Cup - Semi-Finals

Postby L M S on Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:04 pm

hotfire wrote:i would feel for foed if it wasnt their own damn fault in choosing their homemap as hive in a 25 round limit tournament...


Its not a big deal when the other team actually plays the game without 'accidentally' prolonging the game as a strategy to advance in the tournament, for us to finish the Hive in well under 25 rounds, we know the map well. Hey I guess a tournament win is a tournament win, even if the game counts say otherwise...just ask KORT and now add *BotFM to that list.

For example (just from this tournament):
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Re: [ACC] The All Comers Cup - Semi-Finals

Postby macbone on Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:27 am

Don't forget, FOED won the tiebreaker game that was never needed, too. So even though we ended up winning more games than BotFM, they'll advance. (Why wasn't the tiebreaker included to begin with?)

This is like tying the last game of the National League Championship series and deciding not to go to extra innings. Well-played, guys.
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Re: [ACC] The All Comers Cup - Semi-Finals

Postby danryan on Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:30 am

hotfire wrote:i would feel for foed if it wasnt their own damn fault in choosing their homemap as hive in a 25 round limit tournament...


We went back and checked the records, because I thought the same thing when it started looking like this would become an issue. Only in something like 2 of the last 20 hive games that team played has it gone that long. Unfortunately for us it happened.
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Re: [ACC] The All Comers Cup - Semi-Finals

Postby pearljamrox2 on Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:33 pm

I definitely understand the frustration/outrage from the Foed side, but I don't think there is any way that game would have finished before Round 25. Both clans played very well and deserve to win but there can only be one. That is as close as it gets, but don't try to take anything away from the other side. There is no shame losing to another top clan by the smallest margin possible.
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Re: [ACC] The All Comers Cup - Semi-Finals

Postby Commander9 on Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:44 pm

hotfire wrote:i would feel for foed if it wasnt their own damn fault in choosing their homemap as hive in a 25 round limit tournament...

uckuki wrote:I checked my Hive Quads No Spoils games. played 30 total, only 2
games went over 25 rounds (this one and the game against kort).
what did us in was lousy start: they killed mac with no trouble while
we had several dicefails trying to get their guy. we got back into the game
halfway through, in 13th or 14th round. still, a nice comeback indeed. :)

they have nothing to brag about, winning the series after getting
their ass kicked. lol
But... It was so artistically done.
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Re: [ACC] The All Comers Cup - Semi-Finals

Postby anonymus on Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:50 pm

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Re: [ACC] The All Comers Cup - Semi-Finals

Postby danryan on Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:23 pm

pearljamrox2 wrote:I definitely understand the frustration/outrage from the Foed side, but I don't think there is any way that game would have finished before Round 25. Both clans played very well and deserve to win but there can only be one. That is as close as it gets, but don't try to take anything away from the other side. There is no shame losing to another top clan by the smallest margin possible.


I don't disagree with anything you said except losing. We didn't lose, but BOFM advanced, per the rules. Hive will be a win.
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Re: [ACC] The All Comers Cup - Semi-Finals

Postby pearljamrox2 on Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:40 pm

Yes, Hive will be a win. But because of the results in all of the other games that were played in this challenge, BoFM had the advantage when it came down to the last game. You HAD to win before round 25. They only had to win or draw. If ANY of the other games you lost would have been different, or if you could have gotten a win instead of a draw in one more of the singles matches, the hive game wouldn't have meant so much. Just like with most competitive situations, people concentrate on the ending..when there are things that could have been different throughout the whole match.

Foed proved they are every bit as good as the mermaids. It really is a shame to be denied in the way that you were. But the alternative would be to ignore the rules of the tournament. You could argue that in the future, once it gets down to the end of the tournament, there should be no Round limits...since the purpose of the rule is to keep the whole tournament from being delayed by a game. Once you get to this point, that rule isn't as needed as it was in the early rounds. But you can't change it at this point.

It might seem like a shitty way to lose, but you should take some solace in knowing if you could have eecked out a point..just one point somewhere...just the slightest little bit and you would be in the finals.
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Re: [ACC] The All Comers Cup - Semi-Finals

Postby anonymus on Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:06 pm

pearljamrox2 wrote:Yes, Hive will be a win. But because of the results in all of the other games that were played in this challenge, BoFM had the advantage when it came down to the last game. You HAD to win before round 25. They only had to win or draw. If ANY of the other games you lost would have been different, or if you could have gotten a win instead of a draw in one more of the singles matches, the hive game wouldn't have meant so much. Just like with most competitive situations, people concentrate on the ending..when there are things that could have been different throughout the whole match.

Foed proved they are every bit as good as the mermaids. It really is a shame to be denied in the way that you were. But the alternative would be to ignore the rules of the tournament. You could argue that in the future, once it gets down to the end of the tournament, there should be no Round limits...since the purpose of the rule is to keep the whole tournament from being delayed by a game. Once you get to this point, that rule isn't as needed as it was in the early rounds. But you can't change it at this point.

It might seem like a shitty way to lose, but you should take some solace in knowing if you could have eecked out a point..just one point somewhere...just the slightest little bit and you would be in the finals.


=D>

well said!

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Re: [ACC] The All Comers Cup - Semi-Finals

Postby Teflon Kris on Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:39 pm

HippieBroker wrote:you have other games in this tourney that have gone past 25 rounds. So why is that not allowed here?
No need to respond to that. Everyone already knows why.



Comment from BoFM perspective:


No need to be sore losers after you made fools of yourselves with your rediculous jumping-to-conclusions making-as-much-fuss-as-possible-behaviour.

pearl makes some excellent points. For example, had you managed to stay alive a couple of rounds more in the penultimate game to finish - Das Schloss (another no spoils) - you would be advancing by one point with no complaint from your opponents.

You made a poor choice of map and settings and ran out of time. The final whistle is about to blow and you are at the wrong end of the pitch.

In addition, if you become more sportsmanlike in the future, you may find you are more able to negotiate with your opponents.

If you can learn from these mistakes you may find success in the future.




From a Clan & TO perpectives combined.
Your most vocal complainant and another regular complainer made PM apologies to me.

It was strange that this was not done publicly after the lengths they had gone to to make their accusations in various threads and forums, and seemingly by as many means as possible.

From their subsequent comments, it is clear that these apologies were not geniune, and some kind of attempt to hope that I personally would change the rules for FOED's benefit, or something to that effect.




Comment from TO perspective:


Nobody is going to change the rules for the benefit of FOED.

I know of 1 team game which went beyond 25 rounds by agreement between two MOW's whose clan's had been amicable towards each other. I allowed an extension of 3 rounds only. The game finished as a draw and one of the MOW's recorded the wrong result - the relevant MOW was asked to record the result correctly. This made no difference to the final outcome in any case. If there are any other incidents such as this please let me know and I will have the MOWs adjust their scoring accordingly.

FOED did not seek to request an extension with their opponents.

I wish you luck in future tournaments and hope you accept the rules you sign up for in a sportsmanlike manner.
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Re: [ACC] The All Comers Cup - Semi-Finals

Postby L M S on Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:02 pm

Now how about a comment from an L M S perspective (my fellow clan members are individuals with their own minds and opinions):

-The TO who happens to be a mod and a member of the clan accused immediately dismissing all the questions as stupid and ridiculing even the thought of impropriety without impartially even acknowledging the complaint.
-The main accused having nothing to say for himself the entire time (until afterward in game chat with a snarky comment).
-PM acknowledgement agreeing with me of possible impropriety from two different mods and someone very close to the mermaids.
-No offer of reconciliation from the clan accused.
-No offer from the TO to extend the game/rules to accommodate two top level clans in a very important game even though clearly it had been done in prior rounds.
-We did not make a poor choice of map, 18 out of 20 times that team has finished in WELL UNDER 25 rounds.
-Sportsmanship is a two-way street and taking advantage of the rules as a way to gain is not sportsmanlike one little bit and is what started all this, so before you throw stones.....


Go reread the threads DJ. Not only did I apologize in the public thread, I went out of my way to PM a very private apology to YOU as a friend for any harm that I may have caused, and I meant every bit of it, still do.....doesn't mean I don't still have my opinion on the matter. But, being the bigger man I decided it was in all our best interests to abide by the CD decision even though I maintain it was hasty and just plain wrong. In both instances the comments WERE INDEED sincere. Your clan talked shit and provoked the emotional responses they got after the fact. This is a very sensitive subject and a small acknowledgement of our position instead of ridicule by you and the rest of your peeps got our dander up again.

FOED won the war......by the numbers, yet will not advance due to the tournament rules (which I still believe support our case but no one seems to be noticing that part of the rules, whatever) and a VERY arguable (that includes pretty damning evidence if you asked some) instance of a deliberate abuse of the system in order to gain a tactical advantage.

Lets face another fact here while we are at it. FOED and BotFM have not liked each other for a very long time......bad blood over an old fight between MNDuke and BoganGod if memory serves. So there are undertones playing a part in all this too.

Your post DJ, does nothing but further fan the fire. As a respected Mod, brilliant TO, great player, and good friend of mine, I gotta be honest, I expected better from you. I am who I am, some people here hate me, some love me....I make no excuses for myself but I know when I'm wrong and I don't mind admitting it and working to make amends. If some people choose to dwell on old things instead of seeing that, then I feel sorry for them.

I'm over it insofar as there is nothing that can or that will be done to rectify what I believe to be an injustice, doesn't mean I won't defend my position when cornered.
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Too weird to live, and too rare to die.”
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Re: [ACC] The All Comers Cup - Semi-Finals

Postby Royal Panda on Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:29 am

Disappointed in the response from you in this thread DJ. FOED had every right to complain over what we saw as a deliberate attempt to gain advantage by circumvent the rules. It was a reasonable complain to make given the perceived advantage it gave in extending the game.

DJ Teflon wrote:FOED did not seek to request an extension with their opponents.


a) Because we knew the round limit rule and had signed up to it.
b) What would be the point?

Like I say, very disappointed you feel the need to right the way you did just here after my very long explanation at how we felt. My apology was for the way the complaint was made/handled by us, not for the fact it was made.

Poor form.
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Result Update

Postby Teflon Kris on Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:32 am

Indeed, it is now offical, let the final commence:


BoFM (Brethren of the Fat Mermaid) defeated FOED


Good luck to Dynasty and BoFM in the final.

Although it is anticipated that both clans will act in a sportmanlike manner, jghost7 will take a lead role in the administration of the final and will ensure that false accusations are dealt with independantly.

:D

As FOED have been defeated and are no longer in this tournament, they are encouraged to make their comments in the appropraite place, perhaps their CLA rep can make constructive suggestions for future tournaments, or perhaps they may wish to use the C& A thread again or Clans general thread if they wish to continue accusations of Clan Tournament Oranisers 'rigging' wars or suchlike?
Last edited by Teflon Kris on Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [ACC] The All Comers Cup - Semi-Finals

Postby danryan on Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:52 am

As participants in the competition I don't see any problem with FOED members continuing to post comments in this thread. Btw, you might update the title to reflect the fact that the semi-finals are in fact over, as you so eloquently described in your defense.
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Re: The All Comers Cup [ACC] - Final

Postby Teflon Kris on Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:22 am

danryan wrote:What's the proposed Round 3 start date now?


You have been keen for the tournament to progress quickly as orginally planned dan, so your positive comments are most welcome.
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Re: [ACC] The All Comers Cup - Final

Postby L M S on Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:44 am

BoFM (Brethren of the Fat Mermaid) defeated FOED

May have advanced, did not defeat. FOED is undefeated in the ACC.

Dynasty v *BotFM.
good luck to both clans, remember that every 24 hours you might have to take a turn.
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