[ACC] The All Comers Cup - Final

[danryan]

I definitely understand the frustration/outrage from the Foed side, but I don't think there is any way that game would have finished before Round 25. Both clans played very well and deserve to win but there can only be one. That is as close as it gets, but don't try to take anything away from the other side. There is no shame losing to another top clan by the smallest margin possible.

I don't disagree with anything you said except losing. We didn't lose, but BOFM advanced, per the rules. Hive will be a win.

[pearljamrox2]

Yes, Hive will be a win. But because of the results in all of the other games that were played in this challenge, BoFM had the advantage when it came down to the last game. You HAD to win before round 25. They only had to win or draw. If ANY of the other games you lost would have been different, or if you could have gotten a win instead of a draw in one more of the singles matches, the hive game wouldn't have meant so much. Just like with most competitive situations, people concentrate on the ending..when there are things that could have been different throughout the whole match.

Foed proved they are every bit as good as the mermaids. It really is a shame to be denied in the way that you were. But the alternative would be to ignore the rules of the tournament. You could argue that in the future, once it gets down to the end of the tournament, there should be no Round limits...since the purpose of the rule is to keep the whole tournament from being delayed by a game. Once you get to this point, that rule isn't as needed as it was in the early rounds. But you can't change it at this point.

It might seem like a shitty way to lose, but you should take some solace in knowing if you could have eecked out a point..just one point somewhere...just the slightest little bit and you would be in the finals.

[anonymus]

Yes, Hive will be a win. But because of the results in all of the other games that were played in this challenge, BoFM had the advantage when it came down to the last game. You HAD to win before round 25. They only had to win or draw. If ANY of the other games you lost would have been different, or if you could have gotten a win instead of a draw in one more of the singles matches, the hive game wouldn't have meant so much. Just like with most competitive situations, people concentrate on the ending..when there are things that could have been different throughout the whole match.

Foed proved they are every bit as good as the mermaids. It really is a shame to be denied in the way that you were. But the alternative would be to ignore the rules of the tournament. You could argue that in the future, once it gets down to the end of the tournament, there should be no Round limits...since the purpose of the rule is to keep the whole tournament from being delayed by a game. Once you get to this point, that rule isn't as needed as it was in the early rounds. But you can't change it at this point.

It might seem like a shitty way to lose, but you should take some solace in knowing if you could have eecked out a point..just one point somewhere...just the slightest little bit and you would be in the finals.

well said!

/

[Teflon Kris]

you have other games in this tourney that have gone past 25 rounds. So why is that not allowed here?
No need to respond to that. Everyone already knows why.

Comment from BoFM perspective:

No need to be sore losers after you made fools of yourselves with your rediculous jumping-to-conclusions making-as-much-fuss-as-possible-behaviour.

pearl makes some excellent points. For example, had you managed to stay alive a couple of rounds more in the penultimate game to finish - Das Schloss (another no spoils) - you would be advancing by one point with no complaint from your opponents.

You made a poor choice of map and settings and ran out of time. The final whistle is about to blow and you are at the wrong end of the pitch.

In addition, if you become more sportsmanlike in the future, you may find you are more able to negotiate with your opponents.

If you can learn from these mistakes you may find success in the future.




From a Clan & TO perpectives combined.
Your most vocal complainant and another regular complainer made PM apologies to me.

It was strange that this was not done publicly after the lengths they had gone to to make their accusations in various threads and forums, and seemingly by as many means as possible.

From their subsequent comments, it is clear that these apologies were not geniune, and some kind of attempt to hope that I personally would change the rules for FOED's benefit, or something to that effect.




Comment from TO perspective:

Nobody is going to change the rules for the benefit of FOED.

I know of 1 team game which went beyond 25 rounds by agreement between two MOW's whose clan's had been amicable towards each other. I allowed an extension of 3 rounds only. The game finished as a draw and one of the MOW's recorded the wrong result - the relevant MOW was asked to record the result correctly. This made no difference to the final outcome in any case. If there are any other incidents such as this please let me know and I will have the MOWs adjust their scoring accordingly.

FOED did not seek to request an extension with their opponents.

I wish you luck in future tournaments and hope you accept the rules you sign up for in a sportsmanlike manner.

[L M S]

Now how about a comment from an L M S perspective (my fellow clan members are individuals with their own minds and opinions):

-The TO who happens to be a mod and a member of the clan accused immediately dismissing all the questions as stupid and ridiculing even the thought of impropriety without impartially even acknowledging the complaint.
-The main accused having nothing to say for himself the entire time (until afterward in game chat with a snarky comment).
-PM acknowledgement agreeing with me of possible impropriety from two different mods and someone very close to the mermaids.
-No offer of reconciliation from the clan accused.
-No offer from the TO to extend the game/rules to accommodate two top level clans in a very important game even though clearly it had been done in prior rounds.
-We did not make a poor choice of map, 18 out of 20 times that team has finished in WELL UNDER 25 rounds.
-Sportsmanship is a two-way street and taking advantage of the rules as a way to gain is not sportsmanlike one little bit and is what started all this, so before you throw stones.....


Go reread the threads DJ. Not only did I apologize in the public thread, I went out of my way to PM a very private apology to YOU as a friend for any harm that I may have caused, and I meant every bit of it, still do.....doesn't mean I don't still have my opinion on the matter. But, being the bigger man I decided it was in all our best interests to abide by the CD decision even though I maintain it was hasty and just plain wrong. In both instances the comments WERE INDEED sincere. Your clan talked shit and provoked the emotional responses they got after the fact. This is a very sensitive subject and a small acknowledgement of our position instead of ridicule by you and the rest of your peeps got our dander up again.

FOED won the war......by the numbers, yet will not advance due to the tournament rules (which I still believe support our case but no one seems to be noticing that part of the rules, whatever) and a VERY arguable (that includes pretty damning evidence if you asked some) instance of a deliberate abuse of the system in order to gain a tactical advantage.

Lets face another fact here while we are at it. FOED and BotFM have not liked each other for a very long time......bad blood over an old fight between MNDuke and BoganGod if memory serves. So there are undertones playing a part in all this too.

Your post DJ, does nothing but further fan the fire. As a respected Mod, brilliant TO, great player, and good friend of mine, I gotta be honest, I expected better from you. I am who I am, some people here hate me, some love me....I make no excuses for myself but I know when I'm wrong and I don't mind admitting it and working to make amends. If some people choose to dwell on old things instead of seeing that, then I feel sorry for them.

I'm over it insofar as there is nothing that can or that will be done to rectify what I believe to be an injustice, doesn't mean I won't defend my position when cornered.

[Royal Panda]

Disappointed in the response from you in this thread DJ. FOED had every right to complain over what we saw as a deliberate attempt to gain advantage by circumvent the rules. It was a reasonable complain to make given the perceived advantage it gave in extending the game.

FOED did not seek to request an extension with their opponents.

a) Because we knew the round limit rule and had signed up to it.
b) What would be the point?

Like I say, very disappointed you feel the need to right the way you did just here after my very long explanation at how we felt. My apology was for the way the complaint was made/handled by us, not for the fact it was made.

Poor form.

[Teflon Kris]

Indeed, it is now offical, let the final commence:


BoFM (Brethren of the Fat Mermaid) defeated FOED


Good luck to Dynasty and BoFM in the final.

Although it is anticipated that both clans will act in a sportmanlike manner, jghost7 will take a lead role in the administration of the final and will ensure that false accusations are dealt with independantly.



As FOED have been defeated and are no longer in this tournament, they are encouraged to make their comments in the appropraite place, perhaps their CLA rep can make constructive suggestions for future tournaments, or perhaps they may wish to use the C& A thread again or Clans general thread if they wish to continue accusations of Clan Tournament Oranisers 'rigging' wars or suchlike?

[danryan]

As participants in the competition I don't see any problem with FOED members continuing to post comments in this thread. Btw, you might update the title to reflect the fact that the semi-finals are in fact over, as you so eloquently described in your defense.

[Teflon Kris]

What's the proposed Round 3 start date now?

You have been keen for the tournament to progress quickly as orginally planned dan, so your positive comments are most welcome.

[L M S]

BoFM (Brethren of the Fat Mermaid) defeated FOED

May have advanced, did not defeat. FOED is undefeated in the ACC.

Dynasty v *BotFM.
good luck to both clans, remember that every 24 hours you might have to take a turn.

[anonymus]

-We did not make a poor choice of map, 18 out of 20 times that team has finished in WELL UNDER 25 rounds.

well then i guess it was a good decision congratulate yourselves on that..




/

[JoshyBoy]

My clan mates rock. Well done ladies and gents, just got to finish the job in the final now.

[burninchaoz]

I definitely understand the frustration/outrage from the Foed side, but I don't think there is any way that game would have finished before Round 25. Both clans played very well and deserve to win but there can only be one. That is as close as it gets, but don't try to take anything away from the other side. There is no shame losing to another top clan by the smallest margin possible.

I don't disagree with anything you said except losing. We didn't lose, but BOFM advanced, per the rules. Hive will be a win.

let's imagine this was golf, by being up 2 strokes on the last hole, we (the Brethren of the Fat Mermaid), only had to bogey the hole, while our opponent (Fucked Otta Every Damn thing) had to birdie the hole. you lost, now get over it.

[Leehar]

I think foeds interpretation of your role is that if you pitch in half an hour late to the field for the final hole and cause it to reach sunset so that the match can't continue into a 5th day and you win on that technicality?

Heck, wars should never be decided off the field anyway, so it's very disheartening to see these things happening first in the CCup semi, and now here.

Btw, why on earth when the site implemented the official way to end games, was round limits never implemented? If you wanted to do something to avoid these stalemate scenario's (which foed have a good point in saying it wasn't) then that should've been the way to go, and I'm sure I mentioned it earlier.

[Teflon Kris]

I think foeds interpretation of your role is that if you pitch in half an hour late to the field for the final hole and cause it to reach sunset so that the match can't continue into a 5th day and you win on that technicality?

The missed turn accusation has been dealt with.

After LMS made an immediate allegation in C&A, then a number of posts were made in this and the clan war threads, jghost, in the capacity of TO, informed FOED that there was no issue, FOED then contacted CDs

CDs investigated then stated that the matter was closed.

Nonetheless, it was offerred for CDs to log into my account to check game chat and therby find evidence contradicting FOED's claim.

FOED did not respond to this offer, yet continue to make the original accusation, and further accusations that rules were designed to 'rig' the tournament.

Round limit rules were stated at the beginning of the tournament and have not changed.

Many people struggle to comprehend the concept of a draw. Most of the World understand it however.

For any further clarification of rules, simply check the first post. The opportunity to discuss rules was at prior to signing-up. Anyone not liking the rules had the free choice to not enter the tournament.

Whilst the site round limit option has an inherent cultural preference against the concept of a draw, (there has to be a winner), it was not an option for consideration as it had not been introduced at the start of the tournament. It may b e considered for next year through CLA discussion however.

[nebsmith]

I would just like to put in my vote for retaining the draw next time round.

[Royal Panda]

For any further clarification of rules, simply check the first post. The opportunity to discuss rules was at prior to signing-up. Anyone not liking the rules had the free choice to not enter the tournament.

Don't think anyone objected to the rules, just what was seen as a way of circumventing them. From discussion with you, I (and the clan) are content that no deliberate misdeeds were afoot. We were only content of this after discussion. Burninchaoz' silence only served to heighten suspicions. The way you have responded to the accusations though DJ, as TO AND a TD, has been poor, I have reported a prior post and I see it as a bait.

[TheMissionary]

As competitors, one thing we always have to face is bias. Whether it be one way or another, it will always be there.

Good luck to the Finals clans.

[MNDuke]

Even though O.J. was acquitted, certain suspicions still exist.

[GallantPellham]

The technically is we had more points!

[MNDuke]

The technically is we had more points!

The word is technically technicality.

[chemefreak]

FOED - the issue was reviewed by the CDs and a decision was made. If you feel that we were biased, unfair, etc., please feel free to bring your complaints to me and Bruce. We took this out of the TO's hands.

TO - let's move on. Everyone is beating a dead horse here. So let's not make it worse!

[jghost7]

After 22 Wars, we have arrived at the final:



Once privileges have been issued, team games should have started within 1 week.

Good luck to all

[L M S]

*

[KraphtOne]

Rule # 87... don't try to argue rules while drinking...

gl in the finals to BOFM, you will need it on account of we play well enough not to let bitches last 25 rounds...*


*let it also be noted that we on occasion play poor enough that it doesn't last 25 rounds