[ACC] The All Comers Cup - Final

Finished challenges between two competitive clans.

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Re: The All Comers Cup [ACC] - Open for Registration

Postby BoganGod on Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:43 am

jpcloet wrote:At some point as TO's, we have to stop catering to all clans and trying to get all clans into all events. The NC had no top 20 clans yet is considered a great event IMO. Byes should happen due to structure and number of clans, not to cater to clans who happen to be busy.


Interesting opinion there jp, agree with you on the NC. Have you had the time to acquire or have prior knowledge of the FA cup? There is also precidence in tournaments on CC for higher seeded players/teams to have byes for the first few rounds of a tournament. Why not reward more established clans for their stability and the hard work their members have put into making those clans viable and successful. BoFM will take part whether there are byes or not.

I don't think this is about trying to dragoon all clans into joining. DJ is spending a lot of his time creating something which will be fun and of value to the clan world. A bit like Lindax with his TLO this will take a fair bit of sorting out to have a smoothly run show. DJ is more than equal to the task. What I'm wondering though is why there are some many posters being negative and bitching. No one is forcing them to participate or join. So is your clan in jp?
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Re: The All Comers Cup [ACC] - Open for Registration

Postby Qwert on Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:01 am

agree with jp-NC whas great competition,because everybody are start equal, no byes, and these is what will all competition need to have.
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Re: The All Comers Cup [ACC] - Open for Registration

Postby Teflon Kris on Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:52 am

Following discussions with CDs, there will now only be one set of byes. I will therefore allow slight delay to the start of the second round if competing clans have progressed to the CC semi-finals. This is the best we can do to accommodate these clans. CC2 Quarter-Finals still have one bye.

Adjustments as follows (also reflected in the first post):

Tournament Format

The finalised format of the tournament will depend on the number of sign-ups, and will be close to one of the following three diagrams:

Example 1
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Based on 36 sign-ups. The minimum number of clans receiving a bye to the second round will be the number of participating clans competing in the CC2 Quarter-Finals (when registration closes).


Example 2
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Based on 21 sign-ups. The minimum number of clans receiving a bye to the second round will be the number of participating clans competing in the CC2 Quarter-Finals (when registration closes).


Example 3
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Based on 14 sign-ups. The minimum number of clans receiving a bye to the second round will be the number of participating clans competing in the CC2 Quarter-Finals (when registration closes).


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Re: The All Comers Cup [ACC] - Open for Registration

Postby ljex on Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:43 am

jpcloet wrote:At some point as TO's, we have to stop catering to all clans and trying to get all clans into all events. The NC had no top 20 clans yet is considered a great event IMO. Byes should happen due to structure and number of clans, not to cater to clans who happen to be busy.


When you really look at it the byes only increase the competitiveness of the event, and give lower ranked/newer clans a greater chance to make a splash in the clan community with an upset.

Say for arguments 32 teams sign up, well if there are no byes, then 32nd ranked clan takes on the 1st ranked clan, the chances of them winning are slim to none. Now lets say the first round is 17-32, then the winner of those 8 vs 9-16, then the winners vs the top 8 so on. At every round the games should be more competitive as the competition will be more even which IMO is better for the clan community as a whole. Sure the top clan sits out 3 or however many rounds it is, but in all seriousness the top clans first 2 match-ups are essentially a formality if a decent number of clans enter.
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Re: The All Comers Cup [ACC] - Open for Registration

Postby BoganGod on Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:01 pm

ljex wrote:
jpcloet wrote:At some point as TO's, we have to stop catering to all clans and trying to get all clans into all events. The NC had no top 20 clans yet is considered a great event IMO. Byes should happen due to structure and number of clans, not to cater to clans who happen to be busy.


When you really look at it the byes only increase the competitiveness of the event, and give lower ranked/newer clans a greater chance to make a splash in the clan community with an upset.

Say for arguments 32 teams sign up, well if there are no byes, then 32nd ranked clan takes on the 1st ranked clan, the chances of them winning are slim to none. Now lets say the first round is 17-32, then the winner of those 8 vs 9-16, then the winners vs the top 8 so on. At every round the games should be more competitive as the competition will be more even which IMO is better for the clan community as a whole. Sure the top clan sits out 3 or however many rounds it is, but in all seriousness the top clans first 2 match-ups are essentially a formality if a decent number of clans enter.


DJ I hate you, pull this kind of stupid shit again and I'll consider sending you to the brig. You've put me in a situation where I agree with ljex. I'm vomiting in my mouth as I write this. ljex those smart pills are working for you.
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Re: The All Comers Cup [ACC] - Open for Registration

Postby WPBRJ on Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:36 pm

Leehar wrote:
BoganGod wrote:9clans have registered so far, and some of them have done so without a protracted and agonizing attempt at thinking aloud in thread. =D>

Yes, and the most common theme is that all of them with the exception of you as hosts were formed within the last year and are still at the back end of most ladders? For gathering mid-rank clans at the least, you don't seem to have done such a great job?
All I'm worried about is trying to make it more appealing for the rest of us, which obviously hasn't happened. I just put down my thoughts about why that could be so.
Rather than negativity, I'm just trying to find a way to make it more inclusive than it seems to be right now, and for that more than just dehumanizing me and my clan for making my comments, why can't we try and find out why clans like bss, legion, aod, bpb, g1, dyn and even myth (despite shocked's sentiments) etc aren't clamoring at the door to join this, since I would assume they're the ones an event like this should be shooting for - rather than the ones you currently have who I suspect aren't as aware of what exactly they're getting into...


well to be honest i see some middle clans in this tournament i don't see any top clans but to be fair if clans have 3 weeks to join why do they all have to jump right in right away?

most middle of the road clans have been around the block a few times and will talk to there clan mates the newer clan jump right away because they have not been around and are eager to play its just that simple and most middle clans will jump when the time is right and will join i think!
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Re: The All Comers Cup [ACC] - Open for Registration

Postby Leehar on Sun Jul 10, 2011 1:17 pm

jpcloet wrote:At some point as TO's, we have to stop catering to all clans and trying to get all clans into all events. The NC had no top 20 clans yet is considered a great event IMO. Byes should happen due to structure and number of clans, not to cater to clans who happen to be busy.

Also tbh, I wasn't very well disposed with how the NC played out. It's always a danger when you have a mix of old campaigners and new, that there's a huge risk of blow-outs. It was proved last year in Div 2A with Tofu's blow-outs victory's, and similarly here where I doubt you can say it was any different for teams like wd, O66 etc. When you have that blend of some experience and none, it's a lot worse than one with lots of experience and some, as can be proved in games where things like OSA-LoW are so much closer than OSA-O66/Pack-WD.

WPBRJ wrote:well to be honest i see some middle clans in this tournament i don't see any top clans but to be fair if clans have 3 weeks to join why do they all have to jump right in right away?

most middle of the road clans have been around the block a few times and will talk to there clan mates the newer clan jump right away because they have not been around and are eager to play its just that simple and most middle clans will jump when the time is right and will join i think!

Similar to my point with how it still does need a bit of discussion to decide whether it's worth taking part or not, which is why it's useful to discuss the points rather than sweepingly reject any and all statements as negativity and say: 'sign-up or get-out'
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Re: The All Comers Cup [ACC] - Open for Registration

Postby eddie2 on Sun Jul 10, 2011 1:42 pm

leehar i dont want to sound bad but you have not signed up to this tourney yet. plz either sign up or shut up. your opinion would count if you joined and im sure your opinion would be disscused if you did. but at present you have not put your name forward for this. so as a clan that is not participating it has nothing to do with you.

what i mean by this is as follows.

you were not happy with one thing. so dj changed it did you sign up then nooooo. you complained about something else. instead of this join then comment and when it is about to start if you are not happy with the settings pull out. you have not commited to this event commite the say your thoughts.
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Re: The All Comers Cup [ACC] - Open for Registration

Postby WPBRJ on Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:57 pm

Leehar wrote:
jpcloet wrote:At some point as TO's, we have to stop catering to all clans and trying to get all clans into all events. The NC had no top 20 clans yet is considered a great event IMO. Byes should happen due to structure and number of clans, not to cater to clans who happen to be busy.

Also tbh, I wasn't very well disposed with how the NC played out. It's always a danger when you have a mix of old campaigners and new, that there's a huge risk of blow-outs. It was proved last year in Div 2A with Tofu's blow-outs victory's, and similarly here where I doubt you can say it was any different for teams like wd, O66 etc. When you have that blend of some experience and none, it's a lot worse than one with lots of experience and some, as can be proved in games where things like OSA-LoW are so much closer than OSA-O66/Pack-WD.

WPBRJ wrote:well to be honest i see some middle clans in this tournament i don't see any top clans but to be fair if clans have 3 weeks to join why do they all have to jump right in right away?

most middle of the road clans have been around the block a few times and will talk to there clan mates the newer clan jump right away because they have not been around and are eager to play its just that simple and most middle clans will jump when the time is right and will join i think!

Similar to my point with how it still does need a bit of discussion to decide whether it's worth taking part or not, which is why it's useful to discuss the points rather than sweepingly reject any and all statements as negativity and say: 'sign-up or get-out'



leehar i wasnt trying to bash in any way if any i was just trying to say most wont sign up the first day unless there a newer clan is all

eddie2 wrote:leehar i dont want to sound bad but you have not signed up to this tourney yet. plz either sign up or shut up. your opinion would count if you joined and im sure your opinion would be disscused if you did. but at present you have not put your name forward for this. so as a clan that is not participating it has nothing to do with you.

what i mean by this is as follows.

you were not happy with one thing. so dj changed it did you sign up then nooooo. you complained about something else. instead of this join then comment and when it is about to start if you are not happy with the settings pull out. you have not commited to this event commite the say your thoughts.


eddy your are dead wrong better clans want to know what there getting into and if they see a potential problem they should absolutely voice there opinion whether there in or out how are they suppose to make a rational decision if they are in or out if there are questions that are not being brought up that they see can be a problem? are they just suppose to sign up for the turny and hope some one will figure it out?

yes i will agree with some other comments that your top 8 or 10 clans absolutely discus everything to death kinda like your nucks topic its been discussed to death and there still is no good answer to it except to leave it out for now till cc does some thing about it and that's why i choose not to get in most discussions. from what i have read so far leerah has brought up some good points!!!!
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Re: The All Comers Cup [ACC] - Open for Registration

Postby jpcloet on Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:01 pm

BoganGod wrote:Have you had the time to acquire or have prior knowledge of the FA cup? There is also precedence in tournaments on CC for higher seeded players/teams to have byes for the first few rounds of a tournament.


Probably not the best analogy. The FA cup is essentially all the 2nd tier of soccer and the teams that did not make or did not progress in the Champions league. If we consider CC2 to the be 1st level, than a number of teams from CC2 would not be eligible to play at all. The cups and extras are really just money makers based on huge TV rights.

Tournament precedence does not mean that it should happen.

BoganGod wrote:So is your clan in jp?


I'll have to ask them, I have not seen a post in the AOD forums about it.
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Re: The All Comers Cup [ACC] - Open for Registration

Postby ljex on Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:04 pm

eddie2 wrote:leehar i dont want to sound bad but you have not signed up to this tourney yet. plz either sign up or shut up. your opinion would count if you joined and im sure your opinion would be disscused if you did. but at present you have not put your name forward for this. so as a clan that is not participating it has nothing to do with you.

what i mean by this is as follows.

you were not happy with one thing. so dj changed it did you sign up then nooooo. you complained about something else. instead of this join then comment and when it is about to start if you are not happy with the settings pull out. you have not commited to this event commite the say your thoughts.


Your logic is extremely flawed for a few reasons

1) This is still taking sign-ups so even if his clan is not in the event the mere fact that his clan may join the event if things change gives him the right to post suggestions or concerns in relation to this event.
2) There is nothing saying that because one is not involved in this event they cannot try to make it better for those who are involved. I don't see you posting this about any of the other people who have posted here when they are not involved in the event. Hell, there was even a player or came in here and offered his opinion who is not even in a clan and who as stated he doesn't wish to be in a clan and I don't see you telling any of these people to leave unless they sign up.

Also it is not up to an individual player within a clan what event's, challenges, etc they join but the entire clan that decides these things, at least for most clans. Beyond that, most clans don't sign up and then back out at the last second if the event doesn't change to what they want too, they sign up if it is something they want to do.

Food For Thought
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Re: The All Comers Cup [ACC] - Open for Registration

Postby WPBRJ on Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:15 pm

ljex wrote:
eddie2 wrote:leehar i dont want to sound bad but you have not signed up to this tourney yet. plz either sign up or shut up. your opinion would count if you joined and im sure your opinion would be disscused if you did. but at present you have not put your name forward for this. so as a clan that is not participating it has nothing to do with you.

what i mean by this is as follows.

you were not happy with one thing. so dj changed it did you sign up then nooooo. you complained about something else. instead of this join then comment and when it is about to start if you are not happy with the settings pull out. you have not commited to this event commite the say your thoughts.


Your logic is extremely flawed for a few reasons

1) This is still taking sign-ups so even if his clan is not in the event the mere fact that his clan may join the event if things change gives him the right to post suggestions or concerns in relation to this event.
2) There is nothing saying that because one is not involved in this event they cannot try to make it better for those who are involved. I don't see you posting this about any of the other people who have posted here when they are not involved in the event. Hell, there was even a player or came in here and offered his opinion who is not even in a clan and who as stated he doesn't wish to be in a clan and I don't see you telling any of these people to leave unless they sign up.

Also it is not up to an individual player within a clan what event's, challenges, etc they join but the entire clan that decides these things, at least for most clans. Beyond that, most clans don't sign up and then back out at the last second if the event doesn't change to what they want too, they sign up if it is something they want to do.

Food For Thought


ok ljax said way better than me
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Re: The All Comers Cup [ACC] - Open for Registration

Postby Chuuuuck on Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:25 pm

ljex wrote:
eddie2 wrote:leehar i dont want to sound bad but you have not signed up to this tourney yet. plz either sign up or shut up. your opinion would count if you joined and im sure your opinion would be disscused if you did. but at present you have not put your name forward for this. so as a clan that is not participating it has nothing to do with you.

what i mean by this is as follows.

you were not happy with one thing. so dj changed it did you sign up then nooooo. you complained about something else. instead of this join then comment and when it is about to start if you are not happy with the settings pull out. you have not commited to this event commite the say your thoughts.


Your logic is extremely flawed for a few reasons

1) This is still taking sign-ups so even if his clan is not in the event the mere fact that his clan may join the event if things change gives him the right to post suggestions or concerns in relation to this event.
2) There is nothing saying that because one is not involved in this event they cannot try to make it better for those who are involved. I don't see you posting this about any of the other people who have posted here when they are not involved in the event. Hell, there was even a player or came in here and offered his opinion who is not even in a clan and who as stated he doesn't wish to be in a clan and I don't see you telling any of these people to leave unless they sign up.

Also it is not up to an individual player within a clan what event's, challenges, etc they join but the entire clan that decides these things, at least for most clans. Beyond that, most clans don't sign up and then back out at the last second if the event doesn't change to what they want too, they sign up if it is something they want to do.

Food For Thought


I have learned that the best way to deal with eddie's posts is to foe and move on. To be honest, I hate seeing his posts quoted because then it forces me to read them. And every time that happens, I think to myself, "wow, this guy really is dumber than a box of rocks" and it reinforces the reasons that I have him foed.

If no one even acknowledged his posts, they would probably become less and less.
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Re: The All Comers Cup [ACC] - Open for Registration

Postby eddie2 on Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:48 pm

you are missing what i was saying bogangod. with comments like this
Leehar wrote:With regards to Nemesis participation, I've raised it for us to discuss, and I'm still in two-minds since I was all for an event like this for all of us not currently involved in clan competitions, but unsure if we'd be better off just playing clan challenges instead...


why should the event be adapted to what nemisis would like when they can't say if they will or will not participate. fair enough if they want to participate then join in the discussion about how you want things. but you have got to commit that you will join. not change something on the words of in 2 minds about joining.
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Re: The All Comers Cup [ACC] - Open for Registration

Postby ljex on Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:39 pm

eddie2 wrote:you are missing what i was saying bogangod. with comments like this
Leehar wrote:With regards to Nemesis participation, I've raised it for us to discuss, and I'm still in two-minds since I was all for an event like this for all of us not currently involved in clan competitions, but unsure if we'd be better off just playing clan challenges instead...


why should the event be adapted to what nemisis would like when they can't say if they will or will not participate. fair enough if they want to participate then join in the discussion about how you want things. but you have got to commit that you will join. not change something on the words of in 2 minds about joining.


I'm guessing you didn't bother to read my earlier post but because I happen to have a shit ton of time on my hands today i will try to explain this to you as simple as possible.

Clans do not join events when the event has rules or conditions that they do not want to play with in the hopes that they can then change those rules conditions before the start of the event and then choose to bow out if those things don't change. That's really not that hard is it?

Now further, Lehar as an individual still has the right to try and make this a better event for all participating clans even if his clan is not participating.

I think I did all of this more justice with a more worthy explanation in my earlier post but i was trying to keep this one as simple as possible so eddie can understand why he is wrong. If he doesn't bother to respond and continues posting completely illogical crap we can assume one of a few things.

1) He has a huge ego and still thinks he is right
2) He has the biggest case of selective hearing (in this case reading) known to all species of life
3) He isn't able to comprehend simple logic or the notion that not everyone is of the same opinion of him with regards to ease of abandoning something because you didn't get your way.
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