[CL4] Ph2 Div 3 - Winner: BotFM MVP: pop.vol

Finished challenges between two competitive clans.

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Re: [CL4] Phase Two - Division 3

Postby Keefie on Tue May 01, 2012 9:02 am

Well you were clearly late for the second deadline.

The point of two deadlines is so your opposition can't gain an advantage by seeing which maps your going to play prior to submitting their own.
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Re: [CL4] Phase Two - Division 3

Postby Teflon Kris on Tue May 01, 2012 9:08 am

IcePack wrote:So we weren't late to post? What purpose does 2 deadlines serve other than to delay or confuse...if nothing can change once given to merch Sunday, why is there another deadline? One deadline for both would be sufficient one would think.

Clearly we aren't the only confused one if MD said we were late when we weren't.

IcePack


The purpose it serves it keeping some of the more detail oriented cvlan leaders happy.

Unfortunately, if there were only one deadline then there would be potential dummy-spitting as a result of some clans being able to read other opponents lists before posting their own, which would be considered unfair by the clans with the earlier bedtime.

Therefore having two deadlines prevents this potential dummy-spit as late-bedtime clan leaders aren't able to scrutinise opponents lists before posting their own in order to gain the slenderest of strategic advantages.

jefjef's dummy-spit provides an example of how a small issue can lead to the toys being thrown out of the pram, thus justifying the need for all of these rules to prevent dummy-spitting opportunities.

However, despite our best attempts to legislate against dummy-spitting, it still seems to occur. We will therefore have to create dummy-spitting consequences. Perhaps the case of AKA's former contact may be used as a precedent - i.e. clan contacts threatening to withdraw their clan from competitions will no longer be allowed to continue in their role as contact, or post in the relevent forums? In fact, if we didn't use this case as a precedent there would be all sorts of dummies flying around and a lot of toys to put back into various prams. jefjef beware!

;)
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Re: [CL4] Phase Two - Division 3

Postby IcePack on Tue May 01, 2012 9:22 am

Keefie wrote:Well you were clearly late for the second deadline.

The point of two deadlines is so your opposition can't gain an advantage by seeing which maps your going to play prior to submitting their own.


First deadline*. The second deadline (Monday) had not passed yet so it wasn't required to be posted until that night.
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Re: [CL4] Phase Two - Division 3

Postby jefjef on Tue May 01, 2012 9:35 am

if we didn't use this case as a precedent there would be all sorts of dummies flying around and a lot of toys to put back into various prams. jefjef beware!


Here's your precident DJ.

KOA withdraws from this competition.

Have a dummy-split day!
This post was made by jefjef who should be on your ignore list.
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Re: [CL4] Phase Two - Division 3

Postby Teflon Kris on Tue May 01, 2012 9:44 am

jefjef wrote:KOA withdraws from this competition.

Have a dummy-split day!


Its dummy-spit, not split mate.

I was trying to make light of the situation and give you a way out as threatening to withdraw is a major clan contact sin (I thought you and Ice were the current contacts?).
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Re: [CL4] Phase Two - Division 3

Postby MudPuppy on Tue May 01, 2012 9:50 am

From the Online Slang Dictionary:

dummy-spit:
  • used to describe an outburst of anger or tantrum (Dummy, pacifier - a rubber teat used by babies for suckling)
  • explosion of anger, tantrum. A "dummy" is a baby's pacifier. When you're angry, you have to spit out the dummy. Also spit the dummy
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Re: [CL4] Phase Two - Division 3

Postby xman5151 on Tue May 01, 2012 9:52 am

In defense of the organizers for this, this rule has been in place since roughly week 2 of phase 1 (I know it changed a little at 1 point), so you guys should have already been doing this/known how to do this for at least 3 or 4 weeks in the last phase, I don't know if all your games were random because you couldn't meet the deadlines or what.

Now I do agree having 3 different deadlines each week is tough to deal with, and probably 1 too many, but rules are rules, deadlines are deadlines. Quitting part way through the competition because you can no longer meet the deadlines hardly seems reasonable. Especially in a huge clan like yours where you can surely have someone help you out with reminders, creating home teams etc.
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Re: [CL4] Phase Two - Division 3

Postby jefjef on Tue May 01, 2012 10:13 am

In defense of the organizers for this, this rule has been in place since roughly week 2 of phase 1 (I know it changed a little at 1 point), so you guys should have already been doing this/known how to do this for at least 3 or 4 weeks in the last phase


Our original contact for this moved on. I stepped in phase 2. I had zero interest in KOA participating in this and I have even less interest now.

explosion of anger, tantrum. A "dummy" is a baby's pacifier. When you're angry, you have to spit out the dummy. Also spit the dummy


This is funny shit. You call my actions an "explosion of anger"? It's just an explosion of meh. You haven't seen anger..

You all have a nice day.
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Re: [CL4] Phase Two - Division 3

Postby Keefie on Tue May 01, 2012 10:18 am

A completely over the top reaction. If they had dummy spitting in the Olympics Jefjef would be a contender ;) :lol:

Seriously though, KoA DID enter and now are screwing up the tourney for the rest of the clans who can meet deadlines. Instead of getting all wound up why can't you just accept that you were late and take playing a couple of random games on the chin.

Personally I'd like to see clans who withdraw mid-competition banned from all clan competitions, CLA approved or not.
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Re: [CL4] Phase Two - Division 3

Postby Teflon Kris on Tue May 01, 2012 10:26 am

I did make a botch-up in the above post for which I apologise (and have now corrected) - I referred to the potential precedent of KOA's former contact - I actually meant AKA's former contact (who twice threatened to withdraw then asked for his clan to continue and was thereby replaced by another AKA contact).

And jefjef is correct when suggesting that such moves should involve CDs. :D
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Re: [CL4] Phase Two - Division 3

Postby IcePack on Tue May 01, 2012 10:53 am

xman5151 wrote:In defense of the organizers for this, this rule has been in place since roughly week 2 of phase 1 (I know it changed a little at 1 point), so you guys should have already been doing this/known how to do this for at least 3 or 4 weeks in the last phase, I don't know if all your games were random because you couldn't meet the deadlines or what.

Now I do agree having 3 different deadlines each week is tough to deal with, and probably 1 too many, but rules are rules, deadlines are deadlines. Quitting part way through the competition because you can no longer meet the deadlines hardly seems reasonable. Especially in a huge clan like yours where you can surely have someone help you out with reminders, creating home teams etc.


I haven't been involved other than a few games to this point and was away all weekend for birthday festivities. I didn't even know we were late until MD posted, which apparently we weren't even late for?

Coming into this as "backup" and not knowing all those technicalities and bits and pieces of info and having to read a novel for a rule book makes it difficult to step in on a moments notice while at work on your birthday.

I have no problem meeting deadlines, I just didn't know about it. And as second contact, I'm not sure how I can step in to post games if first contact is MIA without him beig late first. How am I to know he will miss a deadline until he misses it? (especially when I'm busy). A PM warning to second contact would have been lovely.

I'm not trying to make an excuse, just providing feedback etc. also, if the deadlines is solely so some people don't see it before others posted it, wont other clans still have the same issue on Monday rather than Sunday? Depending on their time zones? Why not simplify it, have everyone pm merch by the deadline and have merch either compile it into one PM sent out at the exact same time or individually to the contacts?

IcePack
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Re: [CL4] Phase Two - Division 3

Postby merch313 on Tue May 01, 2012 10:58 am

IcePack wrote:
Keefie wrote:Well you were clearly late for the second deadline.

The point of two deadlines is so your opposition can't gain an advantage by seeing which maps your going to play prior to submitting their own.


First deadline*. The second deadline (Monday) had not passed yet so it wasn't required to be posted until that night.


Ice, I sent a reminder to all contacts on either Friday or Saturday reminding them all the I need games to be by Sunday. You are right the second deadline was not missed but the first one was which is getting me the games by Sunday at midnight. That is why I posted all the games would now be random with the default settings. But moot point anyway
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Re: [CL4] Phase Two - Division 3

Postby IcePack on Tue May 01, 2012 11:13 am

Understood. Please see my PM.

Also - for the record KOA will continue in the CLA 4: Div 3. Please remove Jefjef as KOA primary contact and place me as first contact. I will get back to you with a secondary contact shortly.

Thanks,
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Re: [CL4] Phase Two - Division 3

Postby ViperOverLord on Tue May 01, 2012 11:44 am

I'll take some fault for not knowing about the double deadline. Even though I haven't been worried about it, it makes sense to not allow other clans to see your hand (if a clan wants to avoid that potential disadvantage). In the future, I think a way to avoid the double deadline for submitting home maps; it could be easy for the TO to just copy/paste all of the games from pms into one post on Monday. But I'm not complaining, that's just a suggestion.
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Re: [CL4] Phase Two - Division 3

Postby IcePack on Tue May 01, 2012 11:47 am

ViperOverLord wrote:I'll take some fault for not knowing about the double deadline. Even though I haven't been worried about it, it makes sense to not allow other clans to see your hand (if a clan wants to avoid that potential disadvantage). In the future, I think a way to avoid the double deadline for submitting home maps; it could be easy for the TO to just copy/paste all of the games from pms into one post on Monday. But I'm not complaining, that's just a suggestion.


Agreed, possible future improvement.
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Re: [CL4] Phase Two - Division 3

Postby ViperOverLord on Tue May 01, 2012 11:51 am

I also don't think random maps for missing a deadline is unreasonable.
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Re: [CL4] Phase Two - Division 3

Postby jefjef on Tue May 01, 2012 11:54 am

ViperOverLord wrote:I also don't think random maps for missing a deadline is unreasonable.


I never said it was Viper. Go ahead and lick your chops and drool. KOA has quality players and are quite capable of playing any map. If you failed to notice I posted teams for those randoms..

Enjoy.
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Re: [CL4] Phase Two - Division 3

Postby IcePack on Tue May 01, 2012 11:56 am

ViperOverLord wrote:I also don't think random maps for missing a deadline is unreasonable.


Neither do I.
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Re: [CL4] Phase Two - Division 3

Postby Teflon Kris on Wed May 02, 2012 12:42 am

IcePack wrote:
ViperOverLord wrote:I'll take some fault for not knowing about the double deadline. Even though I haven't been worried about it, it makes sense to not allow other clans to see your hand (if a clan wants to avoid that potential disadvantage). In the future, I think a way to avoid the double deadline for submitting home maps; it could be easy for the TO to just copy/paste all of the games from pms into one post on Monday. But I'm not complaining, that's just a suggestion.


Agreed, possible future improvement.


Good suggestion, plus your point about extra time so that 2nd contacts have some warning they need to jump in if they aren't aware the first contact is missing the deadline - things that will be brought up in CLA discussions for CL5.
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Re: [CL4] Phase Two - Division 3

Postby Teflon Kris on Wed May 02, 2012 12:43 am

IcePack wrote:Understood. Please see my PM.

Also - for the record KOA will continue in the CLA 4: Div 3. Please remove Jefjef as KOA primary contact and place me as first contact. I will get back to you with a secondary contact shortly.

Thanks,
IcePack


That's fine Ice - I will amend the list accordingly.

:)
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Re: [CL4] Phase Two - Division 3

Postby sdh on Fri May 04, 2012 5:52 am

I accidently declined Game 11031731, can I get another invite?
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Re: [CL4] Phase Two - Division 3

Postby gradybridges on Sun May 06, 2012 3:32 pm

WAR vs HH WAR Home

dubs
Austr-Hungarian Empire esc/chain/sunny
Tobikera/hmsps

Alexander's Empire esc/chain/sunny
sdh/TheRookThief

Trips
Random no spoils/chain/foggy
stevenshome/MassMiracle/SaviorShot

Egypt : Nubia esc/unlimited/sunny
shivi/dkjose/Ghengis.Kalm

Quads
Random no spoils/chain/foggy
stevenshome/HerrZ/Kingm/shaz2

Africa no spoils/chain/foggy
hmsps/atax/dkjose/Ghengis.Kalm
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Re: [CL4] Phase Two - Division 3

Postby IcePack on Sun May 06, 2012 3:35 pm

Round 4 Home Games vs BotFM [Due Sunday May 6]
Doubles: WWII Ardennes - NS CH SUN - aad0906, deanios
Doubles: Austerlitz - NS CH FOG - JammyJames, Rousseau72

Triples: Draknor - Level 1 - NS CH FOG - IcePack, Link0983, Odeuminus
Triples: Unification Germany - FR ADJ SUN - Odeuminus, link0983, tbayjosh

Quads: First Nations Americas NS CH FOG GoranZ, aad0906, rousseau72, maxcst
Quads: Baseball - NS CH FOG - JammyJames, mviola, Greenoaks, IcePack
Last edited by IcePack on Sun May 06, 2012 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
12:11:16 ‹Swifte› good thing we have the beta program to weed all these problems out
12:15:00 * IcePack joins Social
12:15:35 ‹Swifte› well that's just bad timing
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Re: [CL4] Phase Two - Division 3

Postby Finsfleet on Sun May 06, 2012 5:09 pm

Otpisani vs Legion:

Doubles
rail usa, freakns, pop.vol, no spoils, fog, chained
europa, lordnex, milen83, chained, fog, esc

Triples
new world, freakns, dinustef, mr_green_safs flat, fog, chained
San Francisco, lordnex, sudija77, omiljeni, unlimited, fog, no spoils

Quads:
Pearl Harbur, trboye, cille, yanakis, ivanbuba, esc, chained, no fog
Thailand, finsfleet, omiljeni, grandilof, dinustef, esc, chained, no fog
Last edited by Finsfleet on Mon May 07, 2012 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [CL4] Phase Two - Division 3

Postby xman5151 on Sun May 06, 2012 5:26 pm

Cl4 Phase 2.4 GR vs MD - GR Home Set:

D: Iberia, NS, chained, foggy. whakamole, krikee
D: American Civil War. NS, chained, foggy. xman5151, akabob2
T: Antarctica, Escalating, chianed, foggy. xman5151, whakamole, krikee
T: Poison Rome, NS, chained, foggy. krikee, unionman, alaskanassassin
Q: Atlantis, NS, chained, foggy. b00060, scottie, akabob2, misher
Q: Random, NS, chained, foggy. Tiller, bjf5893, kmhebert, b00060
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