Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually + Longevity]

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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby Gold Knight on Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:03 am

qwert wrote:Now mine question are quite simple-why yours 4 win are much worthy then TOFU 7 wins?


Long story short, THOTA only faces top-tier competition outside the league, and have won on a consistent basis over the years. TOFU hasnt been around very long, hasn't played the quality of clans that THOTA has over the years. And this isn't a shot at TOFU or their competition, but I think it to be ludacris that anyone would say at this time that someone were better than THOTA, perceptually or based on results.
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby Qwert on Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:43 am

""Long story short, THOTA only faces top-tier competition outside the league, and have won on a consistent basis over the years. TOFU hasnt been around very long, hasn't played the quality of clans that THOTA has over the years. And this isn't a shot at TOFU or their competition, but I think it to be ludacris that anyone would say at this time that someone were better than THOTA, perceptually or based on results.""
These is very wrong- What its purpose of having Top 10 clan Annualy, if you every time say "Look our history, we have been good in 2008-2009, we need to be best also in 2010, not look on scores"
And quality of clans? I will give you a list of opponents of bouth clans,and TOFU also play against 7 Quality opponents, same like THota against 4 quality opponents.
Next time its best to present results, and not stick to history,and what hepend two years earlier.
Now its 2011-and Thota not have any chalenge finished-what will be now parameter to be no1 clan? For thota its best to use hes results from 2009, and that these will be valid for every year.
Look on Tenis-if you dont play games, you can not be no1-but here you can. But these is normal in subjective system of ranking .
Jpcloet all ready move THOTA in no4 place- probably because inactivity, but these only show,that he try to be objective, and these is good,ofcourse he need to be objective,because hes ranking its more official,then these.
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby jpcloet on Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:54 am

qwert wrote:Jpcloet all ready move THOTA in no4 place- probably because inactivity, but these only show,that he try to be objective, and these is good,ofcourse he need to be objective,because hes ranking its more official,then these.


Are you talking about a really old RPI version? Current leap work has them #1 for sure. Every time someone comes close to beating them,.....well the key word is "close" isn't it?
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby Eyestone on Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:12 pm

No offense Qwert, but you really don't know what you're talking about. Clue would be that there is no one here agreeing with you - most people here disagrees.
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby Bruceswar on Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:38 pm

Eyestone wrote:No offense Qwert, but you really don't know what you're talking about. Clue would be that there is no one here agreeing with you - most people here disagrees.



So what happens if THOTA gets beat BY KORT?
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby jetsetwilly on Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:47 pm

Bruceswar wrote:
Eyestone wrote:No offense Qwert, but you really don't know what you're talking about. Clue would be that there is no one here agreeing with you - most people here disagrees.



So what happens if THOTA gets beat BY KORT?


Closely followed by AOC beating KORT ;) Clearly everyone would unanimously agree that AOC were CC's top clan ;)
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby Bruceswar on Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:49 pm

jetsetwilly wrote:
Bruceswar wrote:
Eyestone wrote:No offense Qwert, but you really don't know what you're talking about. Clue would be that there is no one here agreeing with you - most people here disagrees.



So what happens if THOTA gets beat BY KORT?


Closely followed by AOC beating KORT ;) Clearly everyone would unanimously agree that AOC were CC's top clan ;)



I am looking forward to playing SOC. We will be using Doodle earth Unlimited quads sunny flat rate!
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby Blitzaholic on Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:24 pm

jetsetwilly wrote:
Bruceswar wrote:
Eyestone wrote:No offense Qwert, but you really don't know what you're talking about. Clue would be that there is no one here agreeing with you - most people here disagrees.



So what happens if THOTA gets beat BY KORT?


Closely followed by AOC beating KORT ;) Clearly everyone would unanimously agree that AOC were CC's top clan ;)



I think that would be up to all the clans. an example when kort played tofu it was decided by 2 games I think, whether kort or tofu won or either way of the 2 games, where it was that close, my perception would be tofu is slightly better, now on chuuuuck's power rankings it may show kort better, depending on how clans vote. my guess is by the end of year of 2011 if kort blows us out, you could be viewed as #1 clan hands down, there will be well deserved argument your clan would be 1, tofu 2, and thota could fall to 3, again, this would depend on how other clans view this.

However, I know kort clan is not viewed that highly by some due to the way they handled the tofu challenge, many lost respect for kort clan and if kort clan barely won by a couple games over thota, that some may view it entirely differently. This also may depend on what others clans do all year long as well, it is hard to say, where there is so much of the year left for 2011. I think if kort won over us by a very close margin, they should play tofu and settle it once and for all, if not, a fair amount of clans could see tofu as #1 for 2011, again, we will need to see how the rest of the year unwinds.

Eyestone wrote:No offense Qwert, but you really don't know what you're talking about. Clue would be that there is no one here agreeing with you - most people here disagrees.



well said eyestone =D>
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby Eyestone on Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:25 pm

Bruceswar wrote:
jetsetwilly wrote:
Bruceswar wrote:
Eyestone wrote:No offense Qwert, but you really don't know what you're talking about. Clue would be that there is no one here agreeing with you - most people here disagrees.



So what happens if THOTA gets beat BY KORT?


Closely followed by AOC beating KORT ;) Clearly everyone would unanimously agree that AOC were CC's top clan ;)



I am looking forward to playing SOC. We will be using Doodle earth Unlimited quads sunny flat rate!


:-s SOC? Who's that?
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby Bruceswar on Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:57 pm

Typo... A is next to S LOL :)
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby Masli on Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:18 pm

Blitzaholic wrote:
jetsetwilly wrote:
Bruceswar wrote:
Eyestone wrote:No offense Qwert, but you really don't know what you're talking about. Clue would be that there is no one here agreeing with you - most people here disagrees.



So what happens if THOTA gets beat BY KORT?


Closely followed by AOC beating KORT ;) Clearly everyone would unanimously agree that AOC were CC's top clan ;)



I think that would be up to all the clans. an example when kort played tofu it was decided by 2 games I think, whether kort or tofu won or either way of the 2 games, where it was that close, my perception would be tofu is slightly better, now on chuuuuck's power rankings it may show kort better, depending on how clans vote. my guess is by the end of year of 2011 if kort blows us out, you could be viewed as #1 clan hands down, there will be well deserved argument your clan would be 1, tofu 2, and thota could fall to 3, again, this would depend on how other clans view this.

However, I know kort clan is not viewed that highly by some due to the way they handled the tofu challenge, many lost respect for kort clan and if kort clan barely won by a couple games over thota, that some may view it entirely differently. This also may depend on what others clans do all year long as well, it is hard to say, where there is so much of the year left for 2011. I think if kort won over us by a very close margin, they should play tofu and settle it once and for all, if not, a fair amount of clans could see tofu as #1 for 2011, again, we will need to see how the rest of the year unwinds.

Eyestone wrote:No offense Qwert, but you really don't know what you're talking about. Clue would be that there is no one here agreeing with you - most people here disagrees.



well said eyestone =D>


its only early 2011, a lot of things can happen to all of the clans ;)
Even if we beat you guys, the rest of the year will also be important to get the nr 1 spot (for every clan)
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby Gold Knight on Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:54 pm

Blitzaholic wrote:
jetsetwilly wrote:
Bruceswar wrote:
Eyestone wrote:No offense Qwert, but you really don't know what you're talking about. Clue would be that there is no one here agreeing with you - most people here disagrees.



So what happens if THOTA gets beat BY KORT?


Closely followed by AOC beating KORT ;) Clearly everyone would unanimously agree that AOC were CC's top clan ;)



I think that would be up to all the clans. an example when kort played tofu it was decided by 2 games I think, whether kort or tofu won or either way of the 2 games, where it was that close, my perception would be tofu is slightly better, now on chuuuuck's power rankings it may show kort better, depending on how clans vote. my guess is by the end of year of 2011 if kort blows us out, you could be viewed as #1 clan hands down, there will be well deserved argument your clan would be 1, tofu 2, and thota could fall to 3, again, this would depend on how other clans view this.

However, I know kort clan is not viewed that highly by some due to the way they handled the tofu challenge, many lost respect for kort clan and if kort clan barely won by a couple games over thota, that some may view it entirely differently. This also may depend on what others clans do all year long as well, it is hard to say, where there is so much of the year left for 2011. I think if kort won over us by a very close margin, they should play tofu and settle it once and for all, if not, a fair amount of clans could see tofu as #1 for 2011, again, we will need to see how the rest of the year unwinds.

Eyestone wrote:No offense Qwert, but you really don't know what you're talking about. Clue would be that there is no one here agreeing with you - most people here disagrees.



well said eyestone =D>


Blitz summed it up nicely. Even if THOTA loses by the slightest of margins, they would still have quite the argument to remain at number 1. Sometimes the challenges isnt about by how much the challenges is won by, but by the overall strength and weakness of the clan. I cannot be positive or verify, but I would say that THOTA's strength is that they have little-no weaknesses anywhere in their roster or knowledge/skill, comparitively to other clans. When clans like TSM lose Scottland, when LOW lost its TOFU players, they are obvious losses that can definately affect the outcome of a challenge. THOTA has seen some of the best players on this site consistently leave their ranks, and yet they have yet to falter (we'll see how the KORT thing plays out ;) ).

Which is why I like the implementation of the leap ladder recently, as in order to be the best you have to beat the best. Im sure this is a mentality that alot of people share, which is why the "perceptions" shown here more often than not show the results they do.
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby niMic on Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:48 am

Eyestone wrote:
Bruceswar wrote:
jetsetwilly wrote:
Bruceswar wrote:
Eyestone wrote:No offense Qwert, but you really don't know what you're talking about. Clue would be that there is no one here agreeing with you - most people here disagrees.



So what happens if THOTA gets beat BY KORT?


Closely followed by AOC beating KORT ;) Clearly everyone would unanimously agree that AOC were CC's top clan ;)



I am looking forward to playing SOC. We will be using Doodle earth Unlimited quads sunny flat rate!


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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby Ace Rimmer on Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:05 pm

Blitzaholic wrote:I think if kort won over us by a very close margin, they should play tofu and settle it once and for all, if not, a fair amount of clans could see tofu as #1 for 2011, again, we will need to see how the rest of the year unwinds.


Settle what? We won 32 games out of a 60 game challenge. The fact that they faced you because of a rule violation on TOFU's part does not make it any different that TOFU won more games. Even if you chose one of the extra games that CoF played and made it a loss, TOFU still beat CORT 31-29.
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby Qwert on Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:43 pm

I just say,that you are wrong
Thota had 4 win in 2010
TOFU had 7 win in 2010
Opponents are almost same quality.
In any normal competitions, team who have better score win, but instead that you look only results from 2010,you look all results,and then decide who are winner in 2010. But i understand ,these is percepcion,and had nothing with results in 2010 year.
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby jpeter15 on Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:35 pm

Gold Knight wrote:Which is why I like the implementation of the leap ladder recently, as in order to be the best you have to beat the best. Im sure this is a mentality that alot of people share, which is why the "perceptions" shown here more often than not show the results they do.


For the sake of argument, THOTA beat TSM, TOFU beat KORT, TSM just beat TOFU in a mini challenge, and if KORT beats THOTA, then we are looking at....

THOTA>TSM>TOFU>KORT>THOTA

Also, if you keep it only to the most recent challenges, TOFU beat KORT, so we leapfrog them to #2, but then if KORT beats THOTA just a couple months later, do they leapfrog TOFU and THOTA?

I like the idea of leapfrog in theory, but its tough in practice.
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby Gold Knight on Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:07 am

jpeter15 wrote:
Gold Knight wrote:Which is why I like the implementation of the leap ladder recently, as in order to be the best you have to beat the best. Im sure this is a mentality that alot of people share, which is why the "perceptions" shown here more often than not show the results they do.


For the sake of argument, THOTA beat TSM, TOFU beat KORT, TSM just beat TOFU in a mini challenge, and if KORT beats THOTA, then we are looking at....

THOTA>TSM>TOFU>KORT>THOTA

Also, if you keep it only to the most recent challenges, TOFU beat KORT, so we leapfrog them to #2, but then if KORT beats THOTA just a couple months later, do they leapfrog TOFU and THOTA?

I like the idea of leapfrog in theory, but its tough in practice.


Well i believe any ladder system in place will not make everyone happy (as seen in previous attempts), but I think this ladder at least gives clans below #2 an incentive to stay busy challenging up the ladder. I would also say that perhaps there should be something set for the #1 clan, maybe that they must challenge #2 or #3 as a "#1 contender" role, similar to boxing/MMA rankings. This would make sure that no clan make a large jump among the upper tier of clans, that they actually earn their way through other established clans before going for the #1 title. But this should probably be in the ladder thread...

And qwert, I completely disagree that TOFU has taken down clans of the same quality of THOTA outside of required tournament setups. Even the TOFU-KORT challenge where TOFU had more wins but officially lost is still a mess of a situation... In my opinion, I would put TOFU right with THOTA in terms of talent/skill as Ive played with both sides and know just how good they are. But based on results, TOFU hasnt gone into a big challenge against TSM, LOW, or other clans at their peak: this is no fault of TOFU's as I know alot of those types of clans declined challenges with them recently. And dont take this as Legion or AOC are slouches, because thats not the case at all and any clan needs to bring their A game to beat them. But its been pointed out several times the gap that exists after the first five or so clans.

Just to clarify again, this is no shot at TOFU and I believe they are on the same level with THOTA, and a challenge between the two seems inevitable. But I can see where THOTA says they want to see TOFU take on a clan in that elite tier to make sure they earn that spot. TOFU's overall resume over 7 challenges is very consistent and some wins are very impressive (including over my clan when we were at full strength), but they dont have that standout win(s) like THOTA has in the past year, which is why I feel they still deserve that #1 spot. This is a perception poll, and you are completely in your right to disagree with my view, but in that same light dont come and say
qwert wrote:I just say,that you are wrong
when I do base my view on the 2010 resumes.
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby Bruceswar on Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:33 am

If both clans make it deep... there will be a rematch of KORT vs TOFU in the semis again... I am sure all the onlookers are ready for that to happen again.
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby Dako on Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:02 am

The other that, this time please.
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby Qwert on Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:42 am

You are very amazing- i dont understand why use "annually" word in title,if they dont want to use only results from these year.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
THOTA GAMES
WIN over The Spanking Monkeys 41-39 [2010-MAR]
WIN over z-Left4Dead 29-11 [2010-APR]
WIN over Nemesis 21-20 [2010-JUL]
WIN over Legends of War 33-27 [2010-NOV]
-----------------------------------------
TOFU games

WIN over Mythology 30-10 [2010-JAN]
WIN over Generation One: The Clan 25-15 [2010-JAN]
WIN over Angels of Death 42-18 [2010-APR]
WIN over The Brethren of the Fat Mermaid 29-11 [2010-APR]
WIN over ++The Legion++ 25-15 [2010-JUN]
WIN over Agents of Chaos 25-16 [2010-SEP]
WIN over Knights of the Round Table 32-28 [2010-DEC]
--------------------------------------------------------------------
here a games, and i must say TOFU had same quality opponents,even better then THOTA.
THOTA become to inactivity clan,because they refuse many clans,dont want to play.
Every 3 month 1 chalenge-realy these is away to be competitive clan. What will be in 2011?
3 month pass,and thota dont have any chalenge complete. Its look that you ignore meaning of word "annually". Ofcourse your defend of no1 clan will be " But we play great in 2008 and 2009 and we need to be no1 in 2010 and 2011, no matther we only play few chalenges"
Competition not work in these way,and definitly these is not boxing. Every year you need to defend no1 position, in many clan chalenges, and not to be no1 ,only to play few.
Ofcourse these is blitz thread, and THOTA need to be no1, because if not then these thread will be pointless for blitz.
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby jpcloet on Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:07 am

Qwert take the top 2 opponents of each clan and rank those. I would say they are these. THOTA did beat the better opponents. However, the Nemesis result by THOTA does show some inconsistency as my perception would have them winning by more than 1. I would say TOFU's scores are more consistent, but they are clearly due for a bigger opponent.

TSM (THOTA beat)
LOW (THOTA beat)
KORT (TOFU beat)
AOC (TOFU beat)
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby danryan on Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:12 am

I'd say more than THOTA showing weakness the result against Nemesis showed how a smaller clan war can make for less "expected" outcomes. That, and Nemesis playing great. I'd say though that 2010 showed how strong THOTA was, beating both LOW and TSM. Those are both marquee wins.
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby Blitzaholic on Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:33 am

qwert wrote:You are very amazing- i dont understand why use "annually" word in title,if they dont want to use only results from these year.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
THOTA GAMES
WIN over The Spanking Monkeys 41-39 [2010-MAR]
WIN over z-Left4Dead 29-11 [2010-APR]
WIN over Nemesis 21-20 [2010-JUL]
WIN over Legends of War 33-27 [2010-NOV]
-----------------------------------------
TOFU games

WIN over Mythology 30-10 [2010-JAN]
WIN over Generation One: The Clan 25-15 [2010-JAN]
WIN over Angels of Death 42-18 [2010-APR]
WIN over The Brethren of the Fat Mermaid 29-11 [2010-APR]
WIN over ++The Legion++ 25-15 [2010-JUN]
WIN over Agents of Chaos 25-16 [2010-SEP]
WIN over Knights of the Round Table 32-28 [2010-DEC]
--------------------------------------------------------------------
here a games, and i must say TOFU had same quality opponents,even better then THOTA.
THOTA become to inactivity clan,because they refuse many clans,dont want to play.
Every 3 month 1 chalenge-realy these is away to be competitive clan. What will be in 2011?
3 month pass,and thota dont have any chalenge complete. Its look that you ignore meaning of word "annually". Ofcourse your defend of no1 clan will be " But we play great in 2008 and 2009 and we need to be no1 in 2010 and 2011, no matther we only play few chalenges"
Competition not work in these way,and definitly these is not boxing. Every year you need to defend no1 position, in many clan chalenges, and not to be no1 ,only to play few.
Ofcourse these is blitz thread, and THOTA need to be no1, because if not then these thread will be pointless for blitz.



qwert, you have no knowledge of clans, you continue to make yourself look silly. Seriously, stick to things you know, the clans and the awareness of them are out of your element.
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby Qwert on Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:52 am

yes,i know,these is your topic, and its normal that im not right. But try at least to play more then 4 chalenge in one year,otherwise you can become more and more inactive clan, and i doubth that you will again be no1 in 2011,with only 4 chalenge. But maybe im wrong, maybe you all ready decide that Thota in no1 in 2011,but its still to early to present results.
I hope that you will in future become more openly clan, like Tofu,who get more and more respect,because they dont afraid to play with everybody- weak,or most strogest clan.
Last edited by Qwert on Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby jpcloet on Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:03 am

People are simply asking you to get your facts correct. The average clan in 2010 played in 3.16 challenges. With gaming privileges, I expect that number will likely increase to about 4.0 range. 2008 and 2009 were both about 2.5 challenges per year.
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