Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually + Longevity]

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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby Leehar on Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:53 pm

Lol, also, I wonder if we're all on the same page with these rankings?
From my p.o.v, I've always deemed it as the top 10 clans in that year, and not the top 10 performers for that year which is what I think many others are thinking. Maybe I'm wrong and there isn't a difference, but I've always felt that this shows who the best clans in CC are at the point in time they're for.
Maybe taking CoF's earlier point a bit further, the Best Clan for Year X as opposed to the Best Clan at the end of Year X. (I'm basically looking at it from my accounting pov of "Comprehensive income for a year", as opposed to "Financial Position at year end").
So perhaps subtle, but different terms? So basically, Thota has been the best clan for the past 4 years and the rankings, but may not have performed the best in any of those years individually?
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby Qwert on Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:05 pm

and you never beat thota, low or tsm

Well i dont know for other two, but your clan decide against who to play(except for league and Cup), and if TOFU want to play chalenge agaist THOTA,you will refuse that, and in that way prevent any posibility to be defeated. but maybe im wrong?

I dont promote nobody, i just look fact,and fact tell that you need to define what its word "annually" and what parameter you use to determine these list.
I look page 1 and i dont see any kind of description, so please give me more informacions, how you determine who is in what place.
What its your question,when you send to clans to vote, and what they need to take into consideration,when they create list.
If you think that im not understand all these, then some explanation will be good.
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby Blitzaholic on Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:11 pm

Dako wrote:
Blitzaholic wrote:Cof, my results came out almost identical to chuuuuck's, so you should have NO complaints.


That is the problem. They should not be the same. They are totally different. One is for 1 year, the rest is for the whole time.


I have no idea what you may thinking or how you may be interpreting this dako, but, mine as the perceptions thread has always been the best clan for that year, the entire year. Dako maybe you are getting confused with this on page one?

Longevity of outstanding clans over the years. 1st place gives you 10 points and 10th place gives you 1 point. Bonus: Clan League champions and Cup champions get + 2 bonus points, runners up +0.5 bonus point. Who are the top clans who have stood the test of time? Look below!


2006
1. Bushwackers = 10
1. Dragoons = 10
3. Stachewackers = 8
4. CWC = 7
5. Bounty Hunters = 6
6. Legionaires of Chaos = 5
7. Scion of Glory (holes) = 4
8. Gridiron Gang = 3
9. Freelancers = 2
10. Elmo's War Legion = 1


2007
1. Thota = 10
2. Dragoons = 9
3. Lod now AoD = 8
4. Untouchables = 7
5. Stachewackers = 6
6. Bushwackers = 5
7. Regulators = 4
8. Bounty Hunters = 3
9. LoW = 2
10. Koe = 1


2008
1. Thota = 10
2. LoW = 9
3. Tsm = 8
4. Dragoons = 7
5. Untouchables = 6
6. Empire = 5
7. Lod now AoD = 4
8. ++The Legion++ = 3
9. Gen. 1 = 2
10. VDLL = 1


2009
1. Thota = 10 + 2 (clan league champs) = 12
2. Tsm = 9
3. LoW = 8 + 0.5 (clan league runners up) = 8.5
4. IA = 7
5. Empire = 6
6. ++The Legion++ = 5
7. Dragoons = 4
8. BSS = 3
9. BpB = 2
10. AoD = 1


2010
1. Thota = 10
2. Tofu = 9
3. Kort = 8
4. LoW = 7 + 2 (clan league champs) = 9
4. Tsm = 7
6. IA = 5
7. Empire = 4
8. Dragoons = 3
8. Nemesis = 3
10. AoC = 1

*clan cup pending!

0.5 (clan league runners up) were BpB

Top 10 clans of longevity, who has the most total points!

1. Thota = 42
2. Dragoons = 33
3. LoW = 28.5
4. Tsm = 24
5. Empire = 15
5. Bushwackers = 15
7. Stachewackers = 14
8. AoD = 13
8. Untouchables = 13
10. IA = 12.0

dako, this later part here is in fact all of the years totaled for the whole time, you are correct, but, the top part of page 1 is each separate year and the top 10 clans of perceptions each year separately, the bottom part of page one is totaled (whole time). I have 2 different things. The 1st part is top 10 perceptions of best clans each year for that whole year only, the bottom half of page one is a total of all the years for longevity (whole time since cc inception of clans.


Dako wrote:Are you serious? And we have a secret plan with qwert to promote us? Ugh, I never thought we are that smart.


no no, that may of came out wrong, that was more of a slam on qwert and how his system is flawed.
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby Chariot of Fire on Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:24 pm

Blitz, you really should read things more carefully:

So it comes back to the age-old debate over 'Best Clan' and 'Best in Year ____'. I'd have to say THOTA are the No.1 clan (have never disputed that) and TOFU were the leading clan in 2010 and obviously present the greatest threat to THOTA's #1 status.


The point I'm trying to make is if your ranking exercise is based on each year then 2010 was definitely better for TOFU than any other clan. If however your rankings are based on perceived strength or status then THOTA would deservedly be No.1 still, though the whole exercise seems rather futile as it simply replicates what Chuck does. So what exactly is your list supposed to represent? If it's based on annual performance then qwert's exercise certainly has merit don't you think?

As for other comments.....
- you ranked us 6th (below TSM, IA, LOW & Empire and obviously held that #1 spot for THOTA though you had to omit rating your own clan). And this was power rankings, not performance, so historical data becomes somewhat irrelevant.
- you know where you can stick your farming comment. T4C challenged us and we accepted. We don't farm for points or medals unlike some.

It seems to me you have a hard time making the distinction between a strong clan and a strong performance and simply go with the "Haven't proven yourselves" argument in both scenarios. You are aware that TOFU was formed with a majority of the big hitters from LOW yet that didn't sway your opinion on the power rankings, and now you run a poll based on 2010 results and are in denial that TOFU had a better year than THOTA (who didn't even enter the latest clan league).

Keep deluding yourself. We'll see you one of these days for sure :D
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby Blitzaholic on Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:33 pm

Chariot of Fire wrote:Blitz, you really should read things more carefully:

So it comes back to the age-old debate over 'Best Clan' and 'Best in Year ____'. I'd have to say THOTA are the No.1 clan (have never disputed that) and TOFU were the leading clan in 2010 and obviously present the greatest threat to THOTA's #1 status.


The point I'm trying to make is if your ranking exercise is based on each year then 2010 was definitely better for TOFU than any other clan. If however your rankings are based on perceived strength or status then THOTA would deservedly be No.1 still, though the whole exercise seems rather futile as it simply replicates what Chuck does. So what exactly is your list supposed to represent? If it's based on annual performance then qwert's exercise certainly has merit don't you think?

As for other comments.....
- you ranked us 6th (below TSM, IA, LOW & Empire and obviously held that #1 spot for THOTA though you had to omit rating your own clan). And this was power rankings, not performance, so historical data becomes somewhat irrelevant.
- you know where you can stick your farming comment. T4C challenged us and we accepted. We don't farm for points or medals unlike some.

It seems to me you have a hard time making the distinction between a strong clan and a strong performance and simply go with the "Haven't proven yourselves" argument in both scenarios. You are aware that TOFU was formed with a majority of the big hitters from LOW yet that didn't sway your opinion on the power rankings, and now you run a poll based on 2010 results and are in denial that TOFU had a better year than THOTA (who didn't even enter the latest clan league).

Keep deluding yourself. We'll see you one of these days for sure :D


I didnt sway my opinion on the power rankings because at that time you never beat a top 3 to 5 quality clan. All know this. :roll:

How could your clan be #1 for the year 2010 cof? how can you say your results for 2010 were better than ours? we beat Tsm in March 2010, we also beat LoW in 2010 (they both were the 2nd and 3rd best clans of 2009), you beat neither one of them. The clans you beat were not as strong as the ones we beat. There is no doubt Tofu is a super power house clan and may prove to be the best in 2011 years end, we had a long run. Tofu is great clan, the loss to Tsm may hurt you some, but, I told you and all on CC for last couple years Tsm is awesome clan and 2nd best on CC site, now you may know what I am saying, and they lost some of there heavy hitters when you played them, Tsm was even better when we played them.
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby firstholliday on Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:11 pm

I personally don't give a rats ass about who is supposed to be the best clan.
IMO 4or maybe 5 clans are pretty even. And it becomes a dice 'game' which it is.

No doubt Thotha ruled CC for years and prolly years to come, but it's getting closer.
Allthough i have to admit, when our war against Thotha was 79-72 in our favour, i received a couple of pm,s , emails sms's etc etc that Blitz was Threatening in Thotha thread to harm himself if we would beat them.
Jiminski,Ladida, skillfull and me and decided that a game is not important to us so we kinda threw with 1 dice for the rest of the session. Blitz is a nice guy and deserves to live.





Whattaya guys mombling bout!!!
Thotha played a zillion wars and have never been beaten... How can any list not make them number one!!??

Idiots
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby Dako on Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:28 pm

I think we are talking about different lists here.

I see at least 3 here.

1. How well a clan may perform in the next challenge. Means current line up strength only. No past achievements count. (this is how I see power rankings)
2. Which clan has accomplished more (clan war wins, league wins, tournament wins, event wins) in 1 year. No past achievements count (there is no such ranking I fear).
3. Which clan has been the strongest in the end of the year, counting all previous achievements and successes. (this is how I see blitz's ranking).


I think blitz thinks that his ranking is #2 when it is actually #3. And most people vote on different basis and the approach to rank the clans differ.
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby Commander62890 on Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:33 pm

Chariot of Fire wrote:The point I'm trying to make is if your ranking exercise is based on each year then 2010 was definitely better for TOFU than any other clan. If however your rankings are based on perceived strength or status then THOTA would deservedly be No.1 still, though the whole exercise seems rather futile as it simply replicates what Chuck does. So what exactly is your list supposed to represent?
Blitz, why is this list so similar to Chuck's? Is this list based on 2010 perception of strength or 2010 performance? If it's based on perception of strength, we probably deserve #1 for now. If it's based on performance, well... I can see how you could make a case for TOFU as #1 (although the top 2 clans we faced were tougher than the top 2 that TOFU faced). The Nemesis challenge probably counts against us.


As for qwert: We are not inactive. We have just been taking it 1 challenge at a time. You cannot fault us for that.
You may quote the Clan League Season 3 if you're looking for evidence of our "inactivity," but realize that we have been involved in at least 1 challenge for a long time. That should not count against us.


Edit:
Fastposted by Dako.
Dako wrote:I think we are talking about different lists here.

I see at least 3 here.

1. How well a clan may perform in the next challenge. Means current line up strength only. No past achievements count. (this is how I see power rankings)
2. Which clan has accomplished more (clan war wins, league wins, tournament wins, event wins) in 1 year. No past achievements count (there is no such ranking I fear).
3. Which clan has been the strongest in the end of the year, counting all previous achievements and successes. (this is how I see blitz's ranking).


I think blitz thinks that his ranking is #2 when it is actually #3. And most people vote on different basis and the approach to rank the clans differ.

I hate to say it... but I agree with him, Blitz. Convince us otherwise, if you can.

Perfectly explained, Dako. Now we're getting to the heart of the issue.
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby Chariot of Fire on Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:08 pm

Thank you Dako.

And Blitz.....if THOTA lost their top 6 players and started a new clan (you can be in it too btw, lol), where exactly would you position this clan in Chuck's Power Rankings? Are you seriously going to say they need to prove themselves and "haven't beaten a Top 3 to 5 quality clan" as your latest argument supposes? This is what you did to TOFU when ranking us.

And I agree...TSM are a formidable outfit. Unfortunate to get knocked out of the latest Clan League, but 9-10 is no disgrace and won't hurt us much. We beat LOW by a bigger margin, but we're talking a handful of games here so it's not a precise indicator. But one can't take one result without considering the other.

With Dako's three scenarios anyone would be hard-pressed to disagree with:
1. Any one of about 4 clans (THOTA, TOFU, KORT, TSM, the first two being favourites)
2. TOFU
3. THOTA

But hey, what does it matter really. I would simply like to see a better definition of what these polls stand for the next time they come around.
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby nagerous on Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:10 pm

Immortal Assassins are criminally underrated.
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby skillfull on Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:12 pm

nagerous wrote:Immortal Assassins are criminally underrated.

Agreed
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby Bruceswar on Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:17 pm

skillfull wrote:
nagerous wrote:Immortal Assassins are criminally underrated.

Agreed



So where would you put them? Above who? Above TSM? LoW? THOTA? KORT? TOFU? Serious question here as all 6 are sooo close.
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby Pedronicus on Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:33 pm

I'm going to have to make a new thread

Perception of biggest cunt [Annually]
the shortlist would be very short and Blitz would win it every year (you might even get a new medal - a big golden quim hanging on a ribbon) ;)
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby Georgerx7di on Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:19 pm

Bruceswar wrote:
skillfull wrote:
nagerous wrote:Immortal Assassins are criminally underrated.

Agreed



So where would you put them? Above who? Above TSM? LoW? THOTA? KORT? TOFU? Serious question here as all 6 are sooo close.


I agree 100% here bruce. The top 6 are all very close. And even a few who aren't in that list. There are probably 5 or 6 more clans at least, who on a good week could beat one of these 6. Clans have gotten a lot closer in skill level, and I don't see why a clan like nemesis, bpb, aod, aoc, empire, G1, couldn't beat one of those listed up there on a good week.

At some point this becomes a little bit silly. All of those clans are good, and all have good players. Each clan can look to their record and say, "we did this" and that should be enough. No one will ever agree completely on who is #1-10.

When we got bumped down to 4 or 5, my own feeling was, 'well... I guess we didn't perform that well last year'. So maybe it was fair, and maybe it wasn't. The bottom line is, it doesn't matter. We'll just focus on the next round of cla, and try to win that, and not worry about where everyone ranks.

We are an ok clan I think, and its nice just to have people think that we should be in the top 4 or 5. If we're better, then it will eventually show, and if we aren't, then that will show too.
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby nagerous on Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:34 pm

Then why have perception lists at all? Things were much easier when we could just all collectively pick on jpcloet and his maths.
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby Gold Knight on Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:40 pm

nagerous wrote:Then why have perception lists at all? Things were much easier when we could just all collectively pick on jpcloet and his maths.


Thank you, been waiting for someone to get the torches back out... BURN HIM! :lol:
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby Rodion on Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:44 pm

Gold Knight wrote:
nagerous wrote:Then why have perception lists at all? Things were much easier when we could just all collectively pick on jpcloet and his maths.


Thank you, been waiting for someone to get the torches back out... BURN HIM! :lol:


He turned me into a newt!
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby jpcloet on Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:27 pm

Are you not all having fun with the current 3 ratings out there? I will renew my beatings soon enough. I am a glutton for punishment, however, my maths is getting less mathier and more simpler, all I have to do in a leap is add and subtract and occasionally divide by 2.
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby Gold Knight on Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:40 pm

jpcloet wrote:Are you not all having fun with the current 3 ratings out there? I will renew my beatings soon enough. I am a glutton for punishment, however, my maths is getting less mathier and more simpler, all I have to do in a leap is add and subtract and occasionally divide by 2.


Im sure that there are several out there that will look for the addition of a multiplicative function, claiming using only 3 of the 4 basic mathematic functions skews the data... :lol:
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby shocked439 on Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:43 pm

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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby Chuuuuck on Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:46 pm

jpcloet wrote:Are you not all having fun with the current 3 ratings out there? I will renew my beatings soon enough. I am a glutton for punishment, however, my maths is getting less mathier and more simpler, all I have to do in a leap is add and subtract and occasionally divide by 2.



Haha, I do love stopping by form time to time and reading the arguments going on about all of this. My personal opinion on the matter is all that anyone cares about is how other people perceive their clan to be and that is why I run my poll. I think it does a very good job of portraying exactly that but I will never be one to claim the results I list are the absolute truth. I think a leap ladder or some other math based ladder would be great to use also. In the meantime, I will just keep doing what I am doing.
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby jpcloet on Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:57 am

shocked439 wrote:Image


In our comedy routine GK is the funny one and I'm the straight man.
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby Gold Knight on Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:22 pm

jpcloet wrote:
shocked439 wrote:Image


In our comedy routine GK is the funny one and I'm the straight man.


Just as long as your keep your hand out of my puppet-hole, we'll be fine... :shock:
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby Chariot of Fire on Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:34 pm

Did anyone else spot the irony between that picture and the name of the player who posted it?
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Re: Perception of Top 10 Clans [Annually]

Postby Rodion on Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:53 pm

Chariot of Fire wrote:Did anyone else spot the irony between that picture and the name of the player who posted it?


Nice catch! Maybe he speaks on personal experience?
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