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Clan Wars Rankings Ladder - 2 Year Weighted RPI

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Re: Clan Wars Rankings Ladder - 2 Year Weighted RPI

Postby reptile on Sun May 30, 2010 6:17 pm

Not here to argue or anything (though i have no clue how you justify some of these) but...

it is interesting how the imperial dragoons are ranked that high. This is the stats i have pulled up on them:

Ranked #7 in the C.C. and lost to #10 The Legion
Came in 9th overall in Division 1 in the CLA (with an overall loosing record)
Last years CLA finished #4 with an impressive 109-71 record
Overall a 2-4 record in clan challenges
Wins
- Legion of the Damned (37-23)
- Sky Force (25-17)
- Murder Inc (10-3)... in a 13 game challenge...(who and what?!?!?!?!)
Losses
- Empire (16-24)
- THOTA (47-53)
- Immortal Assassins (20-22)
- TOFU (16-24)

Very impressive losses actually, but no significant wins. I am not picking on them as they are a great clan, but this is our resume:

show: LoW resume


The only things i can see to compare between us and ID is:

CLA 2009
LoW #2 - ID #4
CLA 2009/2010
LoW currently #1 - ID #9
Conqueror's Cup
LoW voted #5 - ID voted #7
LoW defeated #12 - ID lost to #10
Challenge vs Empire
LoW close victory - ID close loss
Challenge vs THOTA
LoW lost 28-32 - ID lost 47-53 (pretty even so no points given)
Challenge vs Sky Force
LoW won 24-13 - Sky Force 25-17 (we have a slight advantage but no points given)


I don't care all that much where you put us anymore, i just find it humorous that you would put us directly BEHIND ID. Maybe this is your way of getting back at me for arguing your ladder before?

Though i dont agree with a lot of it, hats off to you for trying. I appreciate all the time you put into clans...especially the CLA it is one of the funnest things on CC (even though it only changes your ladder by .ooooo1% lol.)
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Re: Clan Wars Rankings Ladder - 2 Year Weighted RPI

Postby jpcloet on Sun May 30, 2010 6:30 pm

Contrary to belief, there are no personal issues in the ladder. Everyone argues about something within the ladder. The numbers fall where they may. If I delete the Project Enigma result, you rank higher. ID gets ranked higher because they have played a tougher schedule. I've always argued that challenge should not be included and got it out with the A B split which many clans hated the separation.

The THOTA ID challenge aged out and is not included.

Hopefully clans will finally get on board with the original suggestion from almost 2 years ago with a modified leap-frog.
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Re: Clan Wars Rankings Ladder - 2 Year Weighted RPI

Postby jpcloet on Sun May 30, 2010 6:53 pm

RPI file location listed on first post. Several math guys have gone over previous versions, feel free to do so again if you wish.

http://cid-cccdba55ab8c2505.skydrive.li ... n%20League

Several other key data files are now listed for those looking to gather specific clan data as well.
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Re: Clan Wars Rankings Ladder - 2 Year Weighted RPI

Postby reptile on Sun May 30, 2010 9:26 pm

jpcloet wrote:Hopefully clans will finally get on board with the original suggestion from almost 2 years ago with a modified leap-frog.


i personally have nothing wrong with this.

Let me get this right though, i took all that shit for trying to help out project enigma by accepting their plea for a challenge so they can get into the cla, then beat them 25-5 and now we are being taken down further in the ladder when we won 83% of the games? hmm.... ok. that must also be a big difference considering that other than that we are the clear cut favorites between us and them. not to mention somehow we beat some no name clan 25-5 while they beat some no name clan 10-3 and our victory hurts us that much worse than theirs>!>!>!>!>!!>!>!>!>!>!>>!>!>!

like i said i dont really care where we are at on this ladder. i guess i should just keep my mouth shut and let our CLA guys voice their opinions... probably best that i do as none of it makes sense.

However in my own opinion i think the only way to do a ladder fairly that anyone will really respect would be some sort of a leap frog system with the starting rankings based off of CLA clan votes (all done within their own clan then the cla rep posts them or some shit like that). because no matter how hard you or anyone else tries, the above (what i have been arguing) makes no sense and anyone that tries to defend it will just dig themselves deeper into a hole. it is complete crap. that is all ;)

you have my support for a leap frog in other words. in fact i have no problems helping to get this started if needed. cause if there is going to be some sort of a ranking system but is soooo flawed by a group (CLA) that our clan belongs to, it needs to be fixed, thrown away, or each clan needs to re-think their membership in this group. in all honesty.. have you even tried to cast a VOTE (not whoever is most vocal wins) and make sure that each of the cla clans reps vote in it to see if the clans collectively think that a leap frog system might be better? cause somehow the most vocal members seem to have the last say no matter how many are against it because of lack of participation in the discussions
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Re: Clan Wars Rankings Ladder - 2 Year Weighted RPI

Postby TheMissionary on Sun May 30, 2010 10:47 pm

I'm just curious how Project Firestorm is rated higher than us, when we beat them in our challenge, played more games than them, and have a better win percentage.
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Re: Clan Wars Rankings Ladder - 2 Year Weighted RPI

Postby reptile on Sun May 30, 2010 11:32 pm

TheMissionary wrote:I'm just curious how Project Firestorm is rated higher than us, when we beat them in our challenge, played more games than them, and have a better win percentage.


good questions... in fact i just noticed we have completed more games than ID as well as our winning percentage i a whole 7% higher than theirs. Must be that 25-5 ass raping just hurt us that bad.... you know... the one we won, ..... yup.. won , not lost... not tied.... but won. Yep that is why we went from a clear cut favorite to a lower ranking... o well. :roll:

just roll with it missionary.
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Re: Clan Wars Rankings Ladder - 2 Year Weighted RPI

Postby jcstriker on Sun May 30, 2010 11:57 pm

good old 18th rank for legion after recently beating O&H and ID, in clan wars =D> =D> =D> guess if we beat TOFU in our current war then we may be good enough for 17th?
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Re: Clan Wars Rankings Ladder - 2 Year Weighted RPI

Postby TheMissionary on Mon May 31, 2010 12:05 am

jcstriker wrote:good old 18th rank for legion after recently beating O&H and ID, in clan wars =D> =D> =D> guess if we beat TOFU in our current war then we may be good enough for 17th?


Maybe 19th :lol:
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Re: Clan Wars Rankings Ladder - 2 Year Weighted RPI

Postby Chariot of Fire on Mon May 31, 2010 12:07 am

First of all let me say "Thanks" JP for taking the time to calculate all of this (see....it's not a thankless task) ;) TOFU has recorded a fantastic string of results in its brief 10 month existence, a summary of which reads:

vs Dragoons 24-16
vs Mythology 30-10
vs Gen.1 25-15
vs AoD 42-18
vs BotFM 29-11

That's five completed challenges (though unfortunately the latest ladder only accounts for four?) with a 150-80 result overall (65%).

In the CLA the results were 71-17 in the season (81%) and currently 12-1 (14-3 forecast) vs LOTZ in the playoff.

So we're all very grateful for the recognition, however.......

Should we be ranked #1? No I don't think so. Whilst I think we may now be the strongest clan I don't believe we should be ranked above THOTA (yet). That said, I don't feel we have to play THOTA to go above them as that is a match-up that theoretically may never materialise. Perhaps I simply don't grasp the concept of how this RPI system works.

Should TSM be ranked above THOTA having just lost a challenge to them? I do find that a bit odd, though the CLA results will obviously factor in along with the fact the challenge result was a very close affair. Still it does seem odd when, to the best of my knowledge, THOTA haven't lost a challenge yet they drop two places.

Should LoW be down in 7th and lower than Dragoons? I have to support Reptile's argument here and wonder how on Earth - with LoW's recent string of good results - that can happen.

Legion down in 18th seems odd too. I don't think they are that bad as players (18th on the maturity scale maybe).

So I'm just wondering.....although the ladder is now updated, does it really factor in all the latest results?

[edit - I've just remembered that certain challenges aren't counted if they are vs a 'B-rated' clan. That would explain the absence of our 5th challenge in the ladder].

Ah well, thanks again JP. I'm sure it will ruffle a few feathers but at the end of the day so long as we're all playing by the same rules with a uniform equation nobody can say it's biased. I certainly don't think it's perfect though.
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Re: Clan Wars Rankings Ladder - 2 Year Weighted RPI

Postby Dai_atan on Mon May 31, 2010 12:17 am

Could there possibly be a Clan War weighting?
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Re: Clan Wars Rankings Ladder - 2 Year Weighted RPI

Postby jcstriker on Mon May 31, 2010 12:18 am

TheMissionary wrote:
jcstriker wrote:good old 18th rank for legion after recently beating O&H and ID, in clan wars =D> =D> =D> guess if we beat TOFU in our current war then we may be good enough for 17th?


Maybe 19th :lol:

ohh shit sorry i forgot if we only just beat TOFU that will indeed lower our winning percentage thus make us go down, forgot about that sorry. ;)
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Re: Clan Wars Rankings Ladder - 2 Year Weighted RPI

Postby grifftron on Mon May 31, 2010 12:26 am

Just agreeing with what TheMissionary posted above there, how are we lower then some of these clans when we won our first 2 wars, especially Project Firestorm who lost to us is higher then us and then only played 1 clan war which they lost to us... in the long run i guess it doesn't matter as we have to prove ourselves anyways but just throwing it out there.

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Re: Clan Wars Rankings Ladder - 2 Year Weighted RPI

Postby Dako on Mon May 31, 2010 3:18 am

I think I understand this rankings. It is a statistical report and it is done by machine. Current RPI standings are not the to figure out who is the best clan. It is about who performed better in the last 2 years.

I mean, we can say that TSM and TOFU had better results, but THOTA is a stronger clan anyway (even ranked as #3).

This ranking is not about the power or skill. Just summary performance. THOTA relaxed at CLA 2 and they have bad results. But on the key wars (c.c. and TSM challenge) they did their best and showed everyone what they are made of.
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Re: Clan Wars Rankings Ladder - 2 Year Weighted RPI

Postby chemefreak on Mon May 31, 2010 10:06 am

Chariot of Fire wrote:Legion down in 18th seems odd too. I don't think they are that bad as players (18th on the maturity scale maybe).


:lol: Like I said CoF...doctors, lawyers, engineers, professors...this is our release...don't mess with 18th... :lol:

Oh, and this RPI is ridiculous. THOTA is the best clan on this site. Longevity...check. Great players...check. Beatable...um, not yet. I think you have to find a high water mark to measure everything from. If THOTA doesn't shake out at #1 there is something wrong with the formula. Simple.

I'm not even going to mention us. Not even going to do it. I don't have the time to type that much :evil:
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Re: Clan Wars Rankings Ladder - 2 Year Weighted RPI

Postby andy_is_awesome on Mon May 31, 2010 12:25 pm

1.) TOFU undefeated
2.) TSM (one loss to THOTA, but ranked above them)
3.) THOTA

I guess this is what the BCS would look like without the Coaches Poll and AP Poll?
I don't think it will ever be right using one system. Need to average out a few different ladders (polls or not)
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Re: Clan Wars Rankings Ladder - 2 Year Weighted RPI

Postby nagerous on Mon May 31, 2010 1:06 pm

THOTA beat TSM indeed but the final score was 41-39, just a tiny margin of victory - such a small margin of victory hardly stands for anything considering many games just end up being victories or losses due to the luck of the dice. If they had played an other 120 games, perhaps the margin would have been slightly bigger or TSM would have pulled a victory - it is just impossible to tell. The problem with this is there are so many top quality clans on CC now that trying to put them in a ranking order based on the odd games here and there seems highly futile. LoW, TSM, THOTA, TOFU etc . are all great clans and to say one is officially better than another through a ladder is a tough call to make though kudos to jpcloet, bruce and whoever else is involved for their attempts!
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Re: Clan Wars Rankings Ladder - 2 Year Weighted RPI

Postby Blitzaholic on Mon May 31, 2010 2:03 pm

chemefreak wrote:
Chariot of Fire wrote:Legion down in 18th seems odd too. I don't think they are that bad as players (18th on the maturity scale maybe).


:lol: Like I said CoF...doctors, lawyers, engineers, professors...this is our release...don't mess with 18th... :lol:

Oh, and this RPI is ridiculous. THOTA is the best clan on this site. Longevity...check. Great players...check. Beatable...um, not yet. I think you have to find a high water mark to measure everything from. If THOTA doesn't shake out at #1 there is something wrong with the formula. Simple.

I'm not even going to mention us. Not even going to do it. I don't have the time to type that much :evil:



thx cheme, I know many agree with you.


andy_is_awesome wrote:1.) TOFU undefeated
2.) TSM (one loss to THOTA, but ranked above them)
3.) THOTA

I guess this is what the BCS would look like without the Coaches Poll and AP Poll?
I don't think it will ever be right using one system. Need to average out a few different ladders (polls or not)


and not to mention tofu has not beat a top 5 or even top 6 clan from last ladder rankings, yet they are # 1 now because the beat Jp's clan and whipped up on a bunch of class B clans in season 2. the ladder idea is gone in the crapper, I thank Jp for trying, but, when it is unrealistic, it is time for me to stop paying attention to it, it has quickly lost any value it may of once had.
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Re: Clan Wars Rankings Ladder - 2 Year Weighted RPI

Postby Chariot of Fire on Mon May 31, 2010 2:14 pm

Well jeez Blitz, thanks a lot. I make what I believe to be a statement supporting your clan

Should we be ranked #1? No I don't think so. Whilst I think we may now be the strongest clan I don't believe we should be ranked above THOTA (yet). That said, I don't feel we have to play THOTA to go above them as that is a match-up that theoretically may never materialise.

Should TSM be ranked above THOTA having just lost a challenge to them? I do find that a bit odd, though the CLA results will obviously factor in along with the fact the challenge result was a very close affair. Still it does seem odd when, to the best of my knowledge, THOTA haven't lost a challenge yet they drop two places.


and instead of arguing your own case you choose to crap on us instead

and not to mention tofu has not beat a top 5 or even top 6 clan from last ladder rankings, yet they are # 1 now because the beat Jp's clan and whipped up on a bunch of class B clans in season 2.


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Re: Clan Wars Rankings Ladder - 2 Year Weighted RPI

Postby freakns on Mon May 31, 2010 2:41 pm

THOTA is no1 until someone(not necessary TOFU) beats them. period. end of discussion.

and true ladder? here it is:
1. THOTA - 1.17 - 0.38
2. TSM - 2.47 - 2.04
2. TOFU - 3.78 - 1.17
3. EMPIRE - 4.67 - 1.85
4. IA - 4.78 - 1.44
5. Low - 6.44 - 2.23
6. KORT - 6.72 - 2.52
7. ID - 7.50 - 2.66
8. Nemesis - 10.28 - 3.44
9. BSS - 11.22 - 2.84
10. The Legion - 11.28 - 3.36
11. G1 - 11.61 - 3.42
12. O&H - 12.11 - 2.81
13. AoC - 13.72 - 3.61
14. Mythology - 14.61 - 3.09
15. DD - 15.17 - 3.42
15. BotFM - 15.33 - 3.58
16. L4D - 15.67 - 2.79
17. DVDLL - 15.89 - 2.73
18. EE - 17.50 - 2.04
19. LotZ - 18.72 - 2.19

voted mostly by clan leaders and lads who knows what a hell they are talking(with exception of me and maybe Luba if Empire let him vote...). all those formulas jp finds are funny and exciting, but game can not be measured through statistics...

ps. i agree with blitz!!! TOFU is nothing but bunch of low life losers who paid jp(some male strippers were involved, Dakos personal escort if word is right) so they can feel good about themselves even thou they all have small "penetration tools"(and yes, i mean drillers for oil which price will go rocket high again... oil price, not drillers price...)
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Re: Clan Wars Rankings Ladder - 2 Year Weighted RPI

Postby Dako on Mon May 31, 2010 2:46 pm

I just needed money to pay for my premium :'( *sob*.
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Re: Clan Wars Rankings Ladder - 2 Year Weighted RPI

Postby nippersean on Mon May 31, 2010 3:12 pm

nagerous wrote:THOTA beat TSM indeed but the final score was 41-39, just a tiny margin of victory - such a small margin of victory hardly stands for anything considering many games just end up being victories or losses due to the luck of the dice. If they had played an other 120 games, perhaps the margin would have been slightly bigger or TSM would have pulled a victory - it is just impossible to tell. The problem with this is there are so many top quality clans on CC now that trying to put them in a ranking order based on the odd games here and there seems highly futile. LoW, TSM, THOTA, TOFU etc . are all great clans and to say one is officially better than another through a ladder is a tough call to make though kudos to jpcloet, bruce and whoever else is involved for their attempts!


Nag,

Although you're basically right in many ways, and I understand it's not the way the ladder is worked out.
Fair play to JP for doing all the work, it's great to talk about, and impossible to keep people happy. It's a formula - with all the flaws that entails.

But let's be honest - the anomalies are obvious - NOT JP's fault I hasten to add, and brilliant for him to make the effort for all.

But.....
It does look strange that TSM rank above Thota just after they got beat by them. Nevermind the toughness of the games, the size of the margin etc. - fact is, to anyone on the site - right now Thota rank above TSM.

It's not the odd game Thota won the war....end of....

Maybe if they can beat TOFU they'll rank above them also.
Last edited by nippersean on Mon May 31, 2010 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Clan Wars Rankings Ladder - 2 Year Weighted RPI

Postby Blitzaholic on Mon May 31, 2010 3:23 pm

Chariot of Fire wrote:Well jeez Blitz, thanks a lot. I make what I believe to be a statement supporting your clan

Should we be ranked #1? No I don't think so. Whilst I think we may now be the strongest clan I don't believe we should be ranked above THOTA (yet). That said, I don't feel we have to play THOTA to go above them as that is a match-up that theoretically may never materialise.

Should TSM be ranked above THOTA having just lost a challenge to them? I do find that a bit odd, though the CLA results will obviously factor in along with the fact the challenge result was a very close affair. Still it does seem odd when, to the best of my knowledge, THOTA haven't lost a challenge yet they drop two places.


and instead of arguing your own case you choose to crap on us instead

and not to mention tofu has not beat a top 5 or even top 6 clan from last ladder rankings, yet they are # 1 now because the beat Jp's clan and whipped up on a bunch of class B clans in season 2.


Last time I fight in your corner!


:lol: Cof, you are just stating the obvious, many know what you posted and I am just venting here impulsively.

Cof you will get your shot at thota, but we as thota believe every clan needs to earn their stripes equally to play us. I mentioned this many times before, you need to play a top 5 clan like empire or IA , and win in a 60 game challenge or more, and then you need to play TSM and beat them who should be # 2, then if you do that, sure, I do not see why we should not play you guys, but you need to earn it. If you do that, you will eanr it, this is what we had to do year after year to get where we are, and who knows, you probably would beat us, it would be a super challenge.

Cof please don't personalize my post, it is nothing against you or your clan, as I told many on CC , so many times, you and your clan is solid and I posted that in your corner and about you many times Cof, it is more me venting my frustration with jp's recent ladder formula, not you,. :twisted: sorry, if you took it different, I did not mean it like that. If there is any clan on this site that could actually beat us , it would be you Tofu or Tsm, as I think we are the top 3 clans based on my experiences, and only my opinion based on my game play experiences, IA being close as well. I am just angry at this recent ladder, just annoys me and it I should not let it, so I am going to let it go. I have not even told my clan mates yet about this for fear it could get real ugly. :lol:

From what I have been hearing the last several months is many clans do NOT take the ladder serious and have not for awhile, and now with this, well, many more will just look at all of this as a big joke. Jp deserves better and should be more respected than what he has been getting over many months, but with this latest fiasco, I just feel all is lost now and spiraling downwards. Save face and scrap the whole thing, it was a gr8 idea, but, too much bickering. I wanted the ladder idea to work, and Jp has done a lot of work and needs to be commended for that, but, It just seems to get worse and worse. Even when Thota was ranked #1 by the ladder a couple months ago, I still had some issues with it, so, it is much more than us not being number 1, but, I will not get into it all. I am done commenting on this, not worth it. bye
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Re: Clan Wars Rankings Ladder - 2 Year Weighted RPI

Postby Namor on Mon May 31, 2010 3:34 pm

Clearly this system is far from ideal, though I fail to see why everybody feels the need to rip into jp for that fact. He's put in a lot of work on something that is a thankless task and I've not seen anyone else come up with a better idea that would be excepted by all.

Whatever system is used will move one clan or another down a few places, so those clans are bound to find something wrong with it.

I, also, don't understand why so many are taking a dump on TOFU when CoF, himself, said...
Chariot of Fire wrote:... Should we be ranked #1? No I don't think so. Whilst I think we may now be the strongest clan I don't believe we should be ranked above THOTA (yet). That said, I don't feel we have to play THOTA to go above them as that is a match-up that theoretically may never materialise. Perhaps I simply don't grasp the concept of how this RPI system works...

... they aren't responsible for this latest ladder and never asked to be put at #1.

Besides, all this bitching is pointless, when this system is shortly to be replaced by another one... that many will find fault with.
Last edited by Namor on Mon May 31, 2010 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Clan Wars Rankings Ladder - 2 Year Weighted RPI

Postby nagerous on Mon May 31, 2010 3:35 pm

freakns wrote:THOTA is no1 until someone(not necessary TOFU) beats them. period. end of discussion.

and true ladder? here it is:
1. THOTA - 1.17 - 0.38
2. TSM - 2.47 - 2.04
2. TOFU - 3.78 - 1.17
3. EMPIRE - 4.67 - 1.85
4. IA - 4.78 - 1.44
5. Low - 6.44 - 2.23
6. KORT - 6.72 - 2.52
7. ID - 7.50 - 2.66
8. Nemesis - 10.28 - 3.44
9. BSS - 11.22 - 2.84
10. The Legion - 11.28 - 3.36
11. G1 - 11.61 - 3.42
12. O&H - 12.11 - 2.81
13. AoC - 13.72 - 3.61
14. Mythology - 14.61 - 3.09
15. DD - 15.17 - 3.42
15. BotFM - 15.33 - 3.58
16. L4D - 15.67 - 2.79
17. DVDLL - 15.89 - 2.73
18. EE - 17.50 - 2.04
19. LotZ - 18.72 - 2.19

voted mostly by clan leaders and lads who knows what a hell they are talking(with exception of me and maybe Luba if Empire let him vote...). all those formulas jp finds are funny and exciting, but game can not be measured through statistics...

ps. i agree with blitz!!! TOFU is nothing but bunch of low life losers who paid jp(some male strippers were involved, Dakos personal escort if word is right) so they can feel good about themselves even thou they all have small "penetration tools"(and yes, i mean drillers for oil which price will go rocket high again... oil price, not drillers price...)


I guess the clan league stood for complete shit then :roll:
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Re: Clan Wars Rankings Ladder - 2 Year Weighted RPI

Postby Fruitcake on Mon May 31, 2010 3:47 pm

nagerous wrote:
freakns wrote:THOTA is no1 until someone(not necessary TOFU) beats them. period. end of discussion.

and true ladder? here it is:
1. THOTA - 1.17 - 0.38
2. TSM - 2.47 - 2.04
2. TOFU - 3.78 - 1.17
3. EMPIRE - 4.67 - 1.85
4. IA - 4.78 - 1.44
5. Low - 6.44 - 2.23
6. KORT - 6.72 - 2.52
7. ID - 7.50 - 2.66
8. Nemesis - 10.28 - 3.44
9. BSS - 11.22 - 2.84
10. The Legion - 11.28 - 3.36
11. G1 - 11.61 - 3.42
12. O&H - 12.11 - 2.81
13. AoC - 13.72 - 3.61
14. Mythology - 14.61 - 3.09
15. DD - 15.17 - 3.42
15. BotFM - 15.33 - 3.58
16. L4D - 15.67 - 2.79
17. DVDLL - 15.89 - 2.73
18. EE - 17.50 - 2.04
19. LotZ - 18.72 - 2.19

voted mostly by clan leaders and lads who knows what a hell they are talking(with exception of me and maybe Luba if Empire let him vote...). all those formulas jp finds are funny and exciting, but game can not be measured through statistics...

ps. i agree with blitz!!! TOFU is nothing but bunch of low life losers who paid jp(some male strippers were involved, Dakos personal escort if word is right) so they can feel good about themselves even thou they all have small "penetration tools"(and yes, i mean drillers for oil which price will go rocket high again... oil price, not drillers price...)


I guess the clan league stood for complete shit then :roll:


Would that be a bit like last year's clan league?
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