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Re: Power Rankings

Postby Gold Knight on Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:07 pm

josko.ri wrote:
jrh_cardinal wrote:I agree with dako, it's about right now. skill, how pissed would you be if you guys had beaten THOTA but still been considered #2?

there are many clans who beat some other clan but are ranked below them. one win (especially if it is win by 1-2 games) is not fact that should move someone to #1, for be the best you need winning constantly vs the best clans, what only THOTA did. TOFU has zero (or 1, howewer anyone think about it) win vs top clan.

for everyone who looks on power rankings on the way clan A beat clan B, clan B beat clan C, so clan A is better than clan C, one fact: KoRT won vs TSM 10-8 in group stage of league, so if TSM win 10-9 vs TOFU also in league does it mean that KORT is stronger than TOFU because of that?


Im not a big fan of the "who havent you played" argument in TOFU's case. They have actively seeked challenges from upper-clans only to be denied. I completely agree THOTA is #1, and perhaps have even earned to keep the spot if beaten closely based on their previous record. If there is really a huge issue between two clans that are that close, they should play the challenge and figure it out, not compare who theyve both beaten.
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Re: Power Rankings

Postby Rodion on Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:35 pm

John Deere wrote:So if someone wins the super bowl they arent really number one if they havent beat every hard team in both leagues.... Really? :?


2007 Giants will never be considered #1 in my opinion.
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Re: Power Rankings

Postby ljex on Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:50 pm

Rodion wrote:
John Deere wrote:So if someone wins the super bowl they arent really number one if they havent beat every hard team in both leagues.... Really? :?


2007 Giants will never be considered #1 in my opinion.


you must be joking...seriously.
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Re: Power Rankings

Postby jrh_cardinal on Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:04 am

ljex wrote:
Rodion wrote:
John Deere wrote:So if someone wins the super bowl they arent really number one if they havent beat every hard team in both leagues.... Really? :?


2007 Giants will never be considered #1 in my opinion.


you must be joking...seriously.

you're from New York (I think). They're not in the top 3, maybe not even the top 5 of 2007, they just got hot at the right time.

I'll admit that the 06 Cardinals were not nearly the best team in 2006, everything just lined up that year. However, I would argue they were the best in 04, but the Red Sox got hot at the right time and won 8 games in a row in the ALCS and World Series.

Why are we talking about this? lol
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Re: Power Rankings

Postby Chariot of Fire on Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:16 am

I simply let results do the talking, though place less importance on results with either a very small differential or where it was over a limited number of games. It's why KORT figured highly in my own (and TOFU's) recent ranking, as they've had a good year and only lost to us (on paper) by a couple of games. They also have a very good player, though it's a shame he's such a TOFU hater.

We're probably just about to lose our first ever head-to-head 9-10 (and that's clan leagues II & III and all challenges) plus of course we ran away with the TLO tourney last edition and are heading it now (for those unfamiliar with Lindax's TLO it's a far more comprehensive and much longer 'true league' format than the Clan League). In a little over 19 months we've completed nine challenges (273-138 game count), gone 160-48 in two clan leagues, and our members have won a combined 40 tourneys just in that time. And these stats include clans such as Legion, BFM, AOC, G1, Mythology, Dragoons, KORT, LOW and BSS who, on any given day, are perfectly capable of beating any clan on the site, esp in Clan League.

Sorry if this comes across as a "Ra Ra Tofu" rant - it's not really my style - but it is frustrating to read comments that often infer we haven't faced any stiff competition

At the end of the day is the best team in English football the one who finishes top of the division or the team just below them who happened to beat them once or twice?
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Re: Power Rankings

Postby Bruceswar on Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:45 am

Look lets be frank... In the clan world there are 6 elite clans...

THOTA
IA
LOW
TOFU
TSM
KORT


We could all turn blue in the face talking about who is 2-6, but it would not do anybody any good.. Past THOTA, who has never lost a challenge everybody else is up for debate.

If any of these 6 clans played in a 60 game set anything is possible and anybody can beat one another. Nobody is unbeatable and nobody is gonna sweep everybody. THOTA has done a great job of holding off clans for so long but it is only a matter of time before they get beat.

As far as TOFU goes... they have played who has been in front of them and done well vs all comers. Yes even did well vs US(KORT). They have taken down a good number of mid ranked clans by large margins and playing tough vs everybody else. They are not a clan to be taken lightly.

Some interesting matches I would like to see this year


TSM vs TOFU

IA vs KORT

THOTA vs TOFU

LoW vs KORT

THOTA vs IA

TSM vs KORT

LoW vs TOFU


Any of those matches would be really fun to watch or be a part of.

Edited to add:

Empire and AOC are fast closing in on the elite clans. They might soon take a spot of one of the 6 or join them?
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Re: Power Rankings

Postby ljex on Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:49 am

jrh_cardinal wrote:
ljex wrote:
Rodion wrote:
John Deere wrote:So if someone wins the super bowl they arent really number one if they havent beat every hard team in both leagues.... Really? :?


2007 Giants will never be considered #1 in my opinion.


you must be joking...seriously.

you're from New York (I think). They're not in the top 3, maybe not even the top 5 of 2007, they just got hot at the right time.

I'll admit that the 06 Cardinals were not nearly the best team in 2006, everything just lined up that year. However, I would argue they were the best in 04, but the Red Sox got hot at the right time and won 8 games in a row in the ALCS and World Series.

Why are we talking about this? lol


yes i am from new york but i am not a giants fan at all...the team that wins the super bowl is the best team that year plain and simple in my opinion. If any other team was the best team they would have won, yeah its about being hot at the right time but that just means you are playing your best its not like there is luck in football.
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Re: Power Rankings

Postby Leehar on Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:52 am

josko.ri wrote:for everyone who looks on power rankings on the way clan A beat clan B, clan B beat clan C, so clan A is better than clan C, one fact: KoRT won vs TSM 10-8 in group stage of league, so if TSM win 10-9 vs TOFU also in league does it mean that KORT is stronger than TOFU because of that?

But again, that comes against the argument that it's not really a large enough of a sample size to determine enough. The biggest evidence for that is how swings have been in your own duel vs thota. The 13-7 lead you had in the first batch, could quite easily be similar if you faced off in a normal league showdown, but does it really show you the whole picture?

And btw Bruce, that was a pretty harsh jab on Empire. In my view they've been elite for a very long time, to deem them as wannabe's seems undue.

Also CoF, interesting comment on the TLO, but I feel it also gives too much emphasis on a limited amount of players (6 in a team, no?). I think Clans usually really need more depth in order to be successful. Individual success doesn't always translate, tho you've obviously done an amazing job with your batch.
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Re: Power Rankings

Postby Qwert on Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:10 am

by Chariot of Fire on Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:16 am

I simply let results do the talking, though place less importance on results with either a very small differential or where it was over a limited number of games. It's why KORT figured highly in my own (and TOFU's) recent ranking, as they've had a good year and only lost to us (on paper) by a couple of games. They also have a very good player, though it's a shame he's such a TOFU hater.

We're probably just about to lose our first ever head-to-head 9-10 (and that's clan leagues II & III and all challenges) plus of course we ran away with the TLO tourney last edition and are heading it now (for those unfamiliar with Lindax's TLO it's a far more comprehensive and much longer 'true league' format than the Clan League). In a little over 19 months we've completed nine challenges (273-138 game count), gone 160-48 in two clan leagues, and our members have won a combined 40 tourneys just in that time. And these stats include clans such as Legion, BFM, AOC, G1, Mythology, Dragoons, KORT, LOW and BSS who, on any given day, are perfectly capable of beating any clan on the site, esp in Clan League.

Sorry if this comes across as a "Ra Ra Tofu" rant - it's not really my style - but it is frustrating to read comments that often infer we haven't faced any stiff competition
At the end of the day is the best team in English football the one who finishes top of the division or the team just below them who happened to beat them once or twice?

I agree with that, results need to say last word- Who play 3-4 chalenges and win all ,probably are good clan, but who play 10-15 chalenges and win all,are much better clan.
These is not like THOTA World champion, and to play only few games to stay no1.
Italy become World champion in footbal, and not play great, but still win a throphy.
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Re: Power Rankings

Postby Dako on Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:20 am

Leehar wrote:
josko.ri wrote:for everyone who looks on power rankings on the way clan A beat clan B, clan B beat clan C, so clan A is better than clan C, one fact: KoRT won vs TSM 10-8 in group stage of league, so if TSM win 10-9 vs TOFU also in league does it mean that KORT is stronger than TOFU because of that?

But again, that comes against the argument that it's not really a large enough of a sample size to determine enough. The biggest evidence for that is how swings have been in your own duel vs thota. The 13-7 lead you had in the first batch, could quite easily be similar if you faced off in a normal league showdown, but does it really show you the whole picture?

And btw Bruce, that was a pretty harsh jab on Empire. In my view they've been elite for a very long time, to deem them as wannabe's seems undue.

Also CoF, interesting comment on the TLO, but I feel it also gives too much emphasis on a limited amount of players (6 in a team, no?). I think Clans usually really need more depth in order to be successful. Individual success doesn't always translate, tho you've obviously done an amazing job with your batch.

That is why we were against challenge format in league playoffs. As you have seen, there were 2 or 3 games in TSM-TOFU match that has swung deadly. In the end of the day win is tilting towards TSM but the luck can swing one of them again. The point is - 19 games are not enough to distinguish 2 great clans.
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Re: Power Rankings

Postby jpcloet on Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:00 am

Dako wrote:That is why we were against challenge format in league playoffs. As you have seen, there were 2 or 3 games in TSM-TOFU match that has swung deadly. In the end of the day win is tilting towards TSM but the luck can swing one of them again. The point is - 19 games are not enough to distinguish 2 great clans.


The League was not originally meant to find the best clan on CC, nor is it that today. It's simply a chance to compete, have fun and face clans you normally would not in a typical war. The CCup format or the leap ladder would be a more indicative system to find the better clan. I'd like the league to maintain that extra element of fun and luck.
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Re: Power Rankings

Postby Chariot of Fire on Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:21 am

Maybe now then is the time for the Clan League to evolve. C.Cup has become the knockout tourney that draws in 29 clans. Clan League could operate like a true league format where over the course of a year each clan in a division faces each of the others, 10 games at a time so results come in quickly, and one clan picks its 10 home games against the oppo who then return their 10 home games six months later. The ladder is simply Games Won minus Games Lost (as per current practice). End of year, clan at the top is the league champion and has a playoff vs C.Cup winner to determine 'Best on CC' for that year.

Best of all, it requires very little admin. Clans can simply decide between themselves "Yep, we're available to play your 10 home games now" and get on with it, filling any idle breaks in the gaming calendar. Just requires results to be posted and a league table to be updated.
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Re: Power Rankings

Postby jpeter15 on Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:53 am

josko.ri wrote:
jakewilliams wrote:Then TOFU goes to #1, KORT #2, THOTA #3.

to be #1 you need to at least beat some top clans. your the greatest win was vs #8 clan (I know you will say also vs #3), but are beating #8 and #3 enough to become #1? also, on the time when you played vs KORT and AoC, they were ranked #6 and #16.

from the other side, THOTA beat #2 seed 3 or 4 times, and then you think that you will overcome them if they loose once in 5 years vs #3 seed? lol



Are we really back on the "TOFU hasnt played a top clan yet" theme? We played your clan. You guys are a top clan. You are an excellent clan. We won more games than you. It was a very close match. I think we proved we are at least as good KORT and my biased opinion is we showed we are better, but you are essentially claiming we can't be considered for the top spot. Having said that, I think THOTA retains #1 status as long as the final score between THOTA-KORT is close (going either direction).

Don't take offense at this josko. KORT is a very skilled clan and one of the best on the site, I just don't think you can claim #1 by beating THOTA by a couple of games.
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Re: Power Rankings

Postby jpeter15 on Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:01 am

Chariot of Fire wrote:Maybe now then is the time for the Clan League to evolve. C.Cup has become the knockout tourney that draws in 29 clans. Clan League could operate like a true league format where over the course of a year each clan in a division faces each of the others, 10 games at a time so results come in quickly, and one clan picks its 10 home games against the oppo who then return their 10 home games six months later. The ladder is simply Games Won minus Games Lost (as per current practice). End of year, clan at the top is the league champion and has a playoff vs C.Cup winner to determine 'Best on CC' for that year.

Best of all, it requires very little admin. Clans can simply decide between themselves "Yep, we're available to play your 10 home games now" and get on with it, filling any idle breaks in the gaming calendar. Just requires results to be posted and a league table to be updated.



I like this idea a lot. Lots of turnover will keep things exciting and as long as a clan doesnt drop out, results should show a lot at the end of the year.

Also, for the reasons Bruce mentioned, I tend to feel even if THOTA loses by or 2 games to KORT, I would still have THOTA as #1

Finally, Dako's comment about the challenge TOFU-TSM. TSM is one hell of a clan, I am disappointed we will likely lose the 19 game series, but I am anxious to take them on in a 60+ game challenge. I have been really impressed (and depressed).
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Re: Power Rankings

Postby Rodion on Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:27 pm

ljex wrote:
jrh_cardinal wrote:
ljex wrote:
Rodion wrote:
John Deere wrote:So if someone wins the super bowl they arent really number one if they havent beat every hard team in both leagues.... Really? :?


2007 Giants will never be considered #1 in my opinion.


you must be joking...seriously.

you're from New York (I think). They're not in the top 3, maybe not even the top 5 of 2007, they just got hot at the right time.

I'll admit that the 06 Cardinals were not nearly the best team in 2006, everything just lined up that year. However, I would argue they were the best in 04, but the Red Sox got hot at the right time and won 8 games in a row in the ALCS and World Series.

Why are we talking about this? lol


yes i am from new york but i am not a giants fan at all...the team that wins the super bowl is the best team that year plain and simple in my opinion. If any other team was the best team they would have won, yeah its about being hot at the right time but that just means you are playing your best its not like there is luck in football.


So, there's no luck in football? :o :shock: :? :o :shock: :? :o :shock: :?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K36wgL4VLHM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNUkUCkn ... re=related

Come to think of it, you must be right. All-pro cornerbacks miss interceptions like that all the time. I'm also pretty sure Tyree had been practicing that helmet grab for months! :roll:
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Re: Power Rankings

Postby Commander62890 on Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:46 pm

Ljex, I disagree - I think the Patriots were a better team that year. The better team lost, and the Giants were Champions.

Think about it this way - if the Pats played the Giants 5 times, they'd probably win 4 of those games. The Pats were ridiculous that year. The only chance the Giants had was to play amazing AND get lucky, which they did.

I think there is a lot of luck in any sport.
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Re: Power Rankings

Postby gannable on Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:51 pm

i don't believe New England was a better team than the giants.
and im an eagle fan who despises the Giants

The Patriots have become a soft team, all finesse.

They won their super bowls because of a great defense. The defense hasn't been great since 2004

The Giants were a far more physical team and completely dominated new england up front on both sides of the ball.

New England was manhandled again by the Jets this yr during the post season. They may be able to put up pretty numbers during the regular season but in a playoff game i'll take a physical team over a soft, finesse team like the Patriots
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Re: Power Rankings

Postby Chariot of Fire on Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:54 pm

no luck in swimming
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Re: Power Rankings

Postby Rodion on Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:57 pm

Chariot of Fire wrote:no luck in swimming


I think many swimmers got lucky when Alexander Popov got stabbed. :lol:
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Re: Power Rankings

Postby Leehar on Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:12 pm

uhm, when exactly did this turn into a sports discussion?

Ireland had amazing dice, and Bangladesh's drop was terrible! :ugeek:
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Re: Power Rankings

Postby Dako on Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:18 pm

Rodion wrote:
Chariot of Fire wrote:no luck in swimming


I think many swimmers got lucky when Alexander Popov got stabbed. :lol:

Hell yeah, I remember that clearly.

Also, no luck in running as well I think. So, all the things where you use only your own body and nothing else.
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Re: Power Rankings

Postby Commander62890 on Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:52 pm

@ Gannable:
Yes, the Giants were more physical and dominated the Pats up front in that game.
All I'm saying is that I still believe the outcome of that game was a bit of a fluke.
The Giants were lucky that they were able to get so much pressure on Brady.
They were lucky that the Pats offense, normally so efficient, had an off-game.

And bring up the Jet game (which was awesome - I love the Jets) does nothing to help your case.
Last year's Pats weren't nearly as good as the '07 team.



@ CoF and Dako:
I do not know a lot about swimming and running, so help me out:
Do runners and swimmers get the exact same time every time they compete?

If not, what accounts for that discrepancy?

You don't think a swimmer or runner can have a "bad day," where they finish 0.1 seconds higher than their average time?
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Re: Power Rankings

Postby gannable on Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:28 pm

u call it a fluke but i saw it coming a mile away
anytime a finesse offense with a soft defense comes up against a nasty physical team they are usually going to lose in a post-season setting.
[as an eagle fan understand this - the eagles have lost 4 nfc title games, a super bowl, alot of regular season success but they've been a one dimensional passing offense, no running game, and a bend but don't break defense that is not physical. That type of football does not win championships. ]

i had a feeling the giants were going to win the game

i thought the winner of the cowboys/giants playoff game was going to win the super bowl. The patriots had a medicore defense during the 2007 season. The Giants and Cowboys were both better all around teams.

i was near positive of a Giants victory. i was mad at myself for not betting the game.

anytime i get a feeling like that im usually correct.
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Re: Power Rankings

Postby Tammy DeLee on Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:36 pm

Commander9 wrote:
Tammy DeLee wrote:I have the utmost respect for anyone that is bilingual, an accomplishment that I can only dream about. Especially if their second language is english, the EASIEST language to master of all! (as I reckon dan has demonstrated above) ;)

Sorry, couldn't resist! :lol:


Fixed. I can't imagine how can anyone say that it's a hard language - it was much, much easier than Lithuanian or Russian.


go ahead you, rub it in! yes I dropped out my 2nd week of spanish, but i figured I knew all the cuss words and that would get me by if I ever decided to travel! (that and a bilingual companion) :P
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Re: Power Rankings

Postby ljex on Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:17 pm

Rodion wrote:So, there's no luck in football? :o :shock: :? :o :shock: :? :o :shock: :?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K36wgL4VLHM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNUkUCkn ... re=related

Come to think of it, you must be right. All-pro cornerbacks miss interceptions like that all the time. I'm also pretty sure Tyree had been practicing that helmet grab for months! :roll:


lol you can say that is luck all you want but luck is defined by random variables being involved, what random variables are there in football?
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