Why make so many limitations on what games can be used?

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I would like to see the following allowed

manual deploys
2
5%
beta maps
7
16%
nuke spoils
16
36%
keep it as it is
19
43%
 
Total votes : 44

Why make so many limitations on what games can be used?

Postby Pedronicus on Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:01 pm

I fail to understand why top clans can't use every single map whether beta or not, manual deploys, or nuke spoils?

I can understand why certain things you want to avoid, but if you are good enough to be a decent clan and can only use a map twice - then whats the problem?
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Re: Why make so many limitations on what games can be used?

Postby chemefreak on Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:47 pm

Pedronicus wrote:I fail to understand why top clans can't use every single map whether beta or not, manual deploys, or nuke spoils?

I can understand why certain things you want to avoid, but if you are good enough to be a decent clan and can only use a map twice - then whats the problem?


Wow, what crawled in your ass and died?

When was the last time you requested privs and did not receive them based on this restriction? [Actually it is a MEDAL restriction, not a privilege restriction...and of course, who cares about medals? It is for the love the of the game, right? ;) ]

Clans have been allowed to use privs and receive medals with beta maps, manual deploys, and nukes. Not sure what the problem is. The general restriction is in place so old clans cannot take advantage of new clans without proper permission. However, if two experienced clans requested privs they would most likely not be denied due to this restriction (nor would medals for that matter).

Also, don't bitch in active challenges. That wasn't even close to being right.
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Re: Why make so many limitations on what games can be used?

Postby lord voldemort on Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:06 pm

Because the thing above all that clans want is equality and a fair chance going in...Removing all those things that change the balance of a fair battle...Well as close as possible at least
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Re: Why make so many limitations on what games can be used?

Postby jpcloet on Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:07 pm

Pedronicus wrote:I fail to understand why top clans can't use every single map whether beta or not, manual deploys, or nuke spoils?

I can understand why certain things you want to avoid, but if you are good enough to be a decent clan and can only use a map twice - then whats the problem?


You can do almost anything in a clan war, the challenge is finding 2 clans that will agree to that.

I find myself going to the more restrictive side going forward due to silly Honeycombs and the lack of interest in battling for a piece of fabric.
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Re: Why make so many limitations on what games can be used?

Postby 4 U 2 NV on Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:08 pm

chemefreak wrote:
Pedronicus wrote:I fail to understand why top clans can't use every single map whether beta or not, manual deploys, or nuke spoils?

I can understand why certain things you want to avoid, but if you are good enough to be a decent clan and can only use a map twice - then whats the problem?


Wow, what crawled in your ass and died?

When was the last time you requested privs and did not receive them based on this restriction? [Actually it is a MEDAL restriction, not a privilege restriction...and of course, who cares about medals? It is for the love the of the game, right? ;) ]

Clans have been allowed to use privs and receive medals with beta maps, manual deploys, and nukes. Not sure what the problem is. The general restriction is in place so old clans cannot take advantage of new clans without proper permission. However, if two experienced clans requested privs they would most likely not be denied due to this restriction (nor would medals for that matter).

Also, don't bitch in active challenges. That wasn't even close to being right.


is there an example of a recent war that had manual deployments and qualified for medals? I was always under the impression that those guidelines for medal qualifications where straight across the board, but if 2 well established clans can negotiate manual deployment and still qualify, that would be a huge curveball.

let me know please via pm or in this thread
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Re: Why make so many limitations on what games can be used?

Postby jpcloet on Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:11 pm

Not medals but you can still have a war. Unless it changed recently.
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Re: Why make so many limitations on what games can be used?

Postby chemefreak on Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:38 pm

All-

Here is the way we have done it recently. We let the clans negotiate their terms. Once they request privs, if there is anything weird like an odd setting (beta maps CHANGE during gameplay sometimes!) or otherwise we pm the requesters and see if that is really what they intended. If it is and we feel that it was an equitable negotiation (e.g. an agreement between a new clan vs an old clan to play all freestyle, etc.) we will grant privs (which, unless otherwise noted means medals for the winners). If not, we will pm the clans and let them know that we will give them privs but that their challenge will not be eligible for medals. If they still want to go, then fine with us. If not, they usually negotiate a compromise 'cause medals are cool.

The bottom line is that this is not done in a vacuum. We CDs carefully look at every war and talk to all the requesting parties. I'm not sure where this question by Pedro is coming from because I have never seen him request privs, nor have we ever denied privs or medals to TOFU for map or settings choices.

Thanks.
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Re: Why make so many limitations on what games can be used?

Postby 4 U 2 NV on Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:46 pm

chemefreak wrote:All-

Here is the way we have done it recently. We let the clans negotiate their terms. Once they request privs, if there is anything weird like an odd setting (beta maps CHANGE during gameplay sometimes!) or otherwise we pm the requesters and see if that is really what they intended. If it is and we feel that it was an equitable negotiation (e.g. an agreement between a new clan vs an old clan to play all freestyle, etc.) we will grant privs (which, unless otherwise noted means medals for the winners). If not, we will pm the clans and let them know that we will give them privs but that their challenge will not be eligible for medals. If they still want to go, then fine with us. If not, they usually negotiate a compromise 'cause medals are cool.

The bottom line is that this is not done in a vacuum. We CDs carefully look at every war and talk to all the requesting parties. I'm not sure where this question by Pedro is coming from because I have never seen him request privs, nor have we ever denied privs or medals to TOFU for map or settings choices.

Thanks.


Awesome! ID will keep this in mind for our next war!
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Re: Why make so many limitations on what games can be used?

Postby chapcrap on Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:24 pm

cheme, if that's the case, then why isn't that official? I mean, in the actual written down rules.
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Re: Why make so many limitations on what games can be used?

Postby chemefreak on Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:27 am

chapcrap wrote:cheme, if that's the case, then why isn't that official? I mean, in the actual written down rules.


Um, let's see, the right phrase is deniability? Is that even a word? If, oh let's say KoRT, decided to have a freestyle, manual, nuclear war with the "I just started a clan with the first 9 people that signed up" clan would that be something that deserves privs without some changes? Privileges are a "discretionary privilege." Not a right. If a clan wants to run a war without privs (like the old days) that is fine with us. If a clan doesn't want medals? Fine with us. However, if a clan wants privs and medals they must FAIRLY negotiate the rules of the challenge and make a request subject to the review of the CDs. We have never denied a war due to restrictions. Never. We have always been able to work it out. This is a non-issue. The rules that are in place are due to Hundreds of wars, literally hundreds, that refused to allow freestyle, manual, nuclear, etc. If times are changing, and there is an agreement, we grant the "exception". But the rule is there for a reason.

AGAIN...there is not a rejected one on record that I can think of. Negotiate your wars. Request privs. If your clan is willing to lose the war based on a beta map change...on a manual placement where the other clan goes first in a majority of games...nuclear games where the other clan gets all the cards on your Poland placement...fine. But we reserve the right to give you an opportunity to rethink that...and the right to protect a clan from themselves by not allowing privs or medals.

Most, if not all, MoWs know this is the way things work. Pedro has never request privs. For his clan, it would be Si, Dako, or whoever, but that person probably knows to negotiate the war, and then see what happens! As in the legal world, can we wait until there is a rejection to appeal before we complain? Help me out here people!
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Re: Why make so many limitations on what games can be used?

Postby hwhrhett on Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:58 am

i want manual and nukes!!!
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Re: Why make so many limitations on what games can be used?

Postby chemefreak on Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:04 am

hwhrhett wrote:i want manual and nukes!!!


Negotiate it. Request privs. And then let's see!
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Re: Why make so many limitations on what games can be used?

Postby smegal69 on Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:37 am

May be there a reason why you should not have nuke's for clan wars


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Re: Why make so many limitations on what games can be used?

Postby TheMissionary on Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:30 pm

lord voldemort wrote:Because the thing above all that clans want is equality and a fair chance going in...Removing all those things that change the balance of a fair battle...Well as close as possible at least


Isn't this why there are HOME games for each party? I don't see why there are ANY restrictions, if both clans can agree.
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Re: Why make so many limitations on what games can be used?

Postby Bones2484 on Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:54 pm

TheMissionary wrote:
lord voldemort wrote:Because the thing above all that clans want is equality and a fair chance going in...Removing all those things that change the balance of a fair battle...Well as close as possible at least


Isn't this why there are HOME games for each party? I don't see why there are ANY restrictions, if both clans can agree.


Welcome to the battle I've been trying to fight since day 1 of the CLA. Glad to see I have someone on my side.
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Re: Why make so many limitations on what games can be used?

Postby ViperOverLord on Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:16 am

chemefreak wrote:
Pedronicus wrote:I fail to understand why top clans can't use every single map whether beta or not, manual deploys, or nuke spoils?

I can understand why certain things you want to avoid, but if you are good enough to be a decent clan and can only use a map twice - then whats the problem?


Wow, what crawled in your ass and died?

When was the last time you requested privs and did not receive them based on this restriction? [Actually it is a MEDAL restriction, not a privilege restriction...and of course, who cares about medals? It is for the love the of the game, right? ;) ]

Clans have been allowed to use privs and receive medals with beta maps, manual deploys, and nukes. Not sure what the problem is. The general restriction is in place so old clans cannot take advantage of new clans without proper permission. However, if two experienced clans requested privs they would most likely not be denied due to this restriction (nor would medals for that matter).

Also, don't bitch in active challenges. That wasn't even close to being right.


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Re: Why make so many limitations on what games can be used?

Postby TheMissionary on Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:28 pm

Bones2484 wrote:
TheMissionary wrote:
lord voldemort wrote:Because the thing above all that clans want is equality and a fair chance going in...Removing all those things that change the balance of a fair battle...Well as close as possible at least


Isn't this why there are HOME games for each party? I don't see why there are ANY restrictions, if both clans can agree.


Welcome to the battle I've been trying to fight since day 1 of the CLA. Glad to see I have someone on my side.


That's why I stepped down for my clan in CLA. It's like fascism you can vote for.
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Re: Why make so many limitations on what games can be used?

Postby pmchugh on Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:39 pm

You should make the poll check box, I wanted to vote for more than one option.

IMO the only reason that nukes are excluded is because some players lack experience in playing with them and are scared they will lose the competitive edge by adopting them. Also people don't like change.

Manual deploys I can understand more as there is an argument that the game is significantly less strategical, I would disagree with that argument though.
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Re: Why make so many limitations on what games can be used?

Postby jpcloet on Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:24 pm

pmchugh wrote:Manual deploys I can understand more as there is an argument that the game is significantly less strategical, I would disagree with that argument though.


Unless you can cap the manuals to prevent single mountain stacking, you won't see it much in clan wars. In a free market if there is the demand, you'd think that a couple of clans would have an all manual war. Hasn't happen, and IMO is unlikely to happen.
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Re: Why make so many limitations on what games can be used?

Postby TheMissionary on Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:10 pm

So what you're saying is, if there isn't the demand enough for an all manual war, then there isn't enough demand to allow it in events?
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Re: Why make so many limitations on what games can be used?

Postby Bruceswar on Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:38 pm

TheMissionary wrote:So what you're saying is, if there isn't the demand enough for an all manual war, then there isn't enough demand to allow it in events?



What he is saying is the way manual is setup now, we do not know who is going first, so it turns it into a pot luck. Going first can make or break a game before it even starts. Getting 2 clans to agree to a manual war might be tough. That is not to say it cannot happen.
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Re: Why make so many limitations on what games can be used?

Postby jpcloet on Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:23 am

TheMissionary wrote:So what you're saying is, if there isn't the demand enough for an all manual war, then there isn't enough demand to allow it in events?


Given the massive amount of demand, no. One war would not justify it being in events, given there has not been even one all manual war. General consensus is well against it.
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Re: Why make so many limitations on what games can be used?

Postby TheMissionary on Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:13 pm

Bruceswar wrote:
TheMissionary wrote:So what you're saying is, if there isn't the demand enough for an all manual war, then there isn't enough demand to allow it in events?



What he is saying is the way manual is setup now, we do not know who is going first, so it turns it into a pot luck. Going first can make or break a game before it even starts. Getting 2 clans to agree to a manual war might be tough. That is not to say it cannot happen.


You don't know who is going first in any game, and some maps are heavily decided by this concept. However, I don't see any map restrictions other than beta.
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Re: Why make so many limitations on what games can be used?

Postby chemefreak on Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:48 pm

I think the main reason for the "basic" restrictions is that we didn't want newer clans being forced into playing settings that may not be very fair. I think you will find that if you fairly negotiate a war the CDs will allow you to play almost any settings you want. There may be times where we won't allow things, but it never hurts to ask. I mean, TSM and THOTA come to us and want to play a freestyle, manual, speed war on beta maps...we would probably allow that! They know what they are doing. Let's not worry about the restrictions. Negotiate the war you and the other clan want and then come to us...via pm is you would like.
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