The International Clan League [Cancelled]

Abandoned challenges and other old information.

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Re: The International Clan League [Conf & Div Placements Pos

Postby MNDuke on Tue May 15, 2012 7:00 pm

Ace Rimmer wrote:I think "no nukes" is a stupid standard practice. They've been out for well over a year. Flat rate is much more luck-based than unlimited or nukes but nobody has an issue with allowing it. And if a clan wants to use unlimited forts in doubles, they run the risk of not going first and losing. It's a risk some clans are willing to take.

Not attacking you IcePack, just pointing out that the standard practices are wrong.


You can blame me for the rules as I was the one who basically concepted them. The idea was to keep this more challenging and reduce the amount of luck based games. You can argue for against the ways we tried to achieve this, but from my (our) perception, not allowing unlimited forts and nukes keeps the event more competitive between all clans on the whole.

KORT did not join, because as I was told, "not one person voted to participate in the event."
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Re: The International Clan League [Conf & Div Placements Pos

Postby Rodion on Tue May 15, 2012 7:34 pm

KORT is a small clan (23 members, roughly 9 of them freemium/retired, which drops our roster to 14 active players, give or take).

That considered, KORT as a clan has enough on its plate with CC3/CL4 (it didn't help that the unlimited situation removed Josko's interest from the competition).

Could I possibly bounce back and forth between 2 clans so I'd be in KORT whenever needed for CC3/CL4 purposes (period between "sending home games to the opponent" until "games are joined by both clans and start") and use my available time outside the mentioned period to play some ICL games for another clan?

Bo Jackson and Deion Sanders sort of did that with baseball and football, so I figured I had to ask if I could try something similar. :D
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Re: The International Clan League [Conf & Div Placements Pos

Postby niMic on Wed May 16, 2012 8:00 am

MNDuke wrote:You can blame me for the rules as I was the one who basically concepted them. The idea was to keep this more challenging and reduce the amount of luck based games. You can argue for against the ways we tried to achieve this, but from my (our) perception, not allowing unlimited forts and nukes keeps the event more competitive between all clans on the whole.


I know we've gone over this before a lot, but I'm struggling to get my head around how unlimited is supposed to increase the luck factor. If anything it greatly decreases it, on many maps.
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Re: The International Clan League [Conf & Div Placements Pos

Postby Leehar on Wed May 16, 2012 9:15 am

And it seems a weird thing to limit, when you're apparently allowed to play as many doodle games as you want?
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Re: The International Clan League [Conf & Div Placements Pos

Postby MudPuppy on Wed May 16, 2012 10:27 am

IcePack wrote:I'll be happy to discuss next years ICL event another time. This years rules are set in place and we can review how it ended up afterwards.

IcePack

+1

The time to discuss allowable settings for the inaugural season has passed. Let's see how the season goes with the rules that have already been decided upon and discuss changes for Year 2 in the off-season (right after the Dragoons' ICL Championship victory parade). ;-)
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Re: The International Clan League [Conf & Div Placements Pos

Postby reptile on Wed May 16, 2012 11:16 am

The rules are fine they way they are, i agree we can change them next year.. clan tourney is perfect on the first try and will never be exactly as all the clans want it as they all have different opinions/preferences. So lets at least wait until this tournament is winding down before creating next years.

Everyone will enjoy this years either way, thanks for putting it on. I am glad that someone finally came up with a league like this, thanks for putting it on.
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Re: The International Clan League [Conf & Div Placements Pos

Postby chapcrap on Wed May 16, 2012 7:26 pm

As far as the rules go, I will cede to IcePack and MNDuke.

Rodion, I will bring up your proposal with the CDs and the group and see what they think. Don't get your hopes up. Do you have another clan to play with anyway?

And now, the real reason I came to post: I just finished everyone's schedule for the season. I sent it to IcePack and he should be looking it over for mistakes, etc. He'll be the one to pass out/post the schedule information. Just wanted to let everyone know I finished scheduling.
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Re: The International Clan League [Conf & Div Placements Pos

Postby chemefreak on Wed May 16, 2012 8:06 pm

chapcrap wrote:Rodion, I will bring up your proposal with the CDs and the group and see what they think. Don't get your hopes up. Do you have another clan to play with anyway?


Not a chance in hell!
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Re: The International Clan League [Conf & Div Placements Pos

Postby MNDuke on Wed May 16, 2012 9:48 pm

niMic wrote:
MNDuke wrote:You can blame me for the rules as I was the one who basically concepted them. The idea was to keep this more challenging and reduce the amount of luck based games. You can argue for against the ways we tried to achieve this, but from my (our) perception, not allowing unlimited forts and nukes keeps the event more competitive between all clans on the whole.


I know we've gone over this before a lot, but I'm struggling to get my head around how unlimited is supposed to increase the luck factor. If anything it greatly decreases it, on many maps.


Unlimited forts can increase the luck factor depending on drop and turn order and quickly sway the game. Essentially they turn every map into a conquest map, much the same way manual drops can have that effect. That's my opinion or reasoning for not including them. Another was that not all clans and players are not that familiar with unlimited and nukes. Which is also why they weren't included.

The way the rules were designed was to keep everyone on even footing. You can make arguments for both sides. It depends on how you are looking at it. Either way, everyone is playing by the same rules and has the same advantage.
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Re: The International Clan League [Conf & Div Placements Pos

Postby Bruceswar on Wed May 16, 2012 9:56 pm

How can clans not have people who do not know how to play unlimited forts? They have been around forever! Nukes over a year now. There is no luck involved in unlimited forts. Flat rate has way more luck than unlimited forts. People who know how to play unlimited forts will run over people who are marginal on the setting. Luck has nothing to do with it. If a home team picks the setting they also know they risk not going first and I am sure they would account for it.
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Re: The International Clan League [Conf & Div Placements Pos

Postby MNDuke on Wed May 16, 2012 11:51 pm

Bruceswar wrote:How can clans not have people who do not know how to play unlimited forts? They have been around forever! Nukes over a year now. There is no luck involved in unlimited forts. Flat rate has way more luck than unlimited forts. People who know how to play unlimited forts will run over people who are marginal on the setting. Luck has nothing to do with it. If a home team picks the setting they also know they risk not going first and I am sure they would account for it.


As mentioned not all clans are that proficent with unlimited forts and nukes. That was part of the reasoning for not including them and by doing such, it helps to keep this more competitive. It wouldn't be beneficial to cater to one clans preference so they could run away this. Luck also did factor into the decision as mentioned with turn order or drop, unlimited forts can turn the game quickly and also turn any map into a conquest style game. There's is no point in debating this any further as the rules are not going to change at this point and this distracts from any real issues that may need to be dealt with. We can review the rules and settings next year, and if everyone feels that unlimited forts and nukes should be included, then so be it. I guess I don't see the point in debating something that KORT had no interest participating in in the first place, due to their workload (as you have made so very clear) and not the rules. That doesn't mean I don't understand what you are saying, because I do, the time for this debate has passed though.
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Re: The International Clan League [Conf & Div Placements Pos

Postby Rodion on Thu May 17, 2012 12:26 am

chapcrap wrote:Do you have another clan to play with anyway?


I didn't ask any yet, but I figure I'd pass the auditions in at least 1 clan out of 32. ;)


chemefreak wrote:
chapcrap wrote:Rodion, I will bring up your proposal with the CDs and the group and see what they think. Don't get your hopes up. Do you have another clan to play with anyway?


Not a chance in hell!



For the sake of argument, assume I leave KORT to join "Clan A". I get assigned into week 1 ICL games for "Clan A". Week 1 ICL games start. I then decide to leave "Clan A" and join KORT, coincidentally just in time to join week 5/6/7 CL4 games and batch 1 of CC round of 32. All those games start. I then decide to leave KORT and join "Clan A", coincidentally just in time to join week 4 ICL games (yes, unfortunately I missed weeks 2 and 3 on transition) for "Clan A". Week 5 ICL games start. I then decide to leave "Clan A"...

At what point would you intervene and forbid me from playing games/exercising my right to come and go?
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Re: The International Clan League [Conf & Div Placements Pos

Postby chapcrap on Thu May 17, 2012 12:54 am

Bruceswar wrote:There is no luck involved in unlimited forts.

Now, let's not say things that aren't true. Not that your sentiment is wrong...

Rodion wrote:
chapcrap wrote:Do you have another clan to play with anyway?


I didn't ask any yet, but I figure I'd pass the auditions in at least 1 clan out of 32. ;)

Psh!

Rodion wrote:
chemefreak wrote:
chapcrap wrote:Rodion, I will bring up your proposal with the CDs and the group and see what they think. Don't get your hopes up. Do you have another clan to play with anyway?


Not a chance in hell!



For the sake of argument, assume I leave KORT to join "Clan A". I get assigned into week 1 ICL games for "Clan A". Week 1 ICL games start. I then decide to leave "Clan A" and join KORT, coincidentally just in time to join week 5/6/7 CL4 games and batch 1 of CC round of 32. All those games start. I then decide to leave KORT and join "Clan A", coincidentally just in time to join week 4 ICL games (yes, unfortunately I missed weeks 2 and 3 on transition) for "Clan A". Week 5 ICL games start. I then decide to leave "Clan A"...

At what point would you intervene and forbid me from playing games/exercising my right to come and go?

I assumed that would be the answer. I'll go ahead and make the ruling that you can only play with a clan you are a part of and all of your games must be finished with one clan before starting with another.

Also, we set a trade deadline of week 12. So, if you switch clans, you must be with your new clan by week 12 in order to play in the league.
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Re: The International Clan League [Conf & Div Placements Pos

Postby niMic on Thu May 17, 2012 6:46 am

MNDuke wrote:It wouldn't be beneficial to cater to one clans preference so they could run away this.

But you're doing that, just the other way around. You're limiting a setting that no one else limits, because some clans are better at it than others.

Luck also did factor into the decision as mentioned with turn order or drop, unlimited forts can turn the game quickly and also turn any map into a conquest style game.

Luck factors into literally every single setting, but some less than others. And it's patently true that there is less luck with unlimited. That is very easy to see, in that a team that is good with unlimited forts will absolutely destroy a team that is merely ok.
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Re: The International Clan League [Conf & Div Placements Pos

Postby josko.ri on Thu May 17, 2012 7:01 am

MNDuke wrote:You can blame me for the rules as I was the one who basically concepted them. The idea was to keep this more challenging and reduce the amount of luck based games. You can argue for against the ways we tried to achieve this, but from my (our) perception, not allowing unlimited forts and nukes keeps the event more competitive between all clans on the whole.


So you first say that unlimited increases luck factor (obviously decreases skill factor), and then you said you wanted the event more competitive between all clans.

If the #1 clan plays an unlimited home game vs #32 clan, isnt that in favor of the #32 clan? because, if they play some othr (chained fort) game where luck factor is low and skill factor is high, then #1 clan has huge advantage over #32 clan.
if #1 clan choose unlimited fort game vs #32 clan (so they CHOOSE to play on settings that has 50-50% to give first turn-great luck to opponents), isn't that what would make event more competitive? #32 clan would then have better chance to win vs #1 clan and therefore the whole thing would become more competitive for all clans, true?

not allowing that settings is only my personal reason for not participating, it is not KORT's reason. I like/enjoy those settings the most of all available settings, so logically without them I would not enjoy this competition like I enjoy other competitions where I can play unlimited. in KORT forum I wrote my decision that I won't play, but I never asked anyone from KORT to not sign up themselves without me, if they think they have enough active players for ICL.
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Re: The International Clan League [Conf & Div Placements Pos

Postby IcePack on Thu May 17, 2012 9:13 am

I humbly request any discussion of ICL 2013 (aka unlimited or other settings) be moved to the ICL thread under "clans" and not ICL 2012.

Rodion - for the sake of simplicity we will say you can only move clans once in the ICL and it must be before Week 12 or you can't compete in 13-18 ad playoffs. I also don't think you be eligible for medals anyway

Chap - thanks for getting the schedule done. I apologize to everyone it was supposed to go out yesterday but I spent the night in the ER. I will look over it and post today.

The ICL is set to begin!

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Re: The International Clan League [Conf & Div Placements Pos

Postby MNDuke on Thu May 17, 2012 9:07 pm

IcePack wrote:I humbly request any discussion of ICL 2013 (aka unlimited or other settings) be moved to the ICL thread under "clans" and not ICL 2012.

Rodion - for the sake of simplicity we will say you can only move clans once in the ICL and it must be before Week 12 or you can't compete in 13-18 ad playoffs. I also don't think you be eligible for medals anyway

Chap - thanks for getting the schedule done. I apologize to everyone it was supposed to go out yesterday but I spent the night in the ER. I will look over it and post today.

The ICL is set to begin!

IcePack


Thanks IcePack and Chap
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Re: The International Clan League [Conf & Div Placements Pos

Postby IcePack on Thu May 24, 2012 11:41 am

Ladies & Gents,
After seeking additional feedback from participants, discussing with CD's, amongst ourselves and looking at the prospects for the ICL 2012, we have decided to cancel.

While It has always been our desire to run a unique top class event and contribute to CC clan area, and the overwhelming feedback received showed a desire to lessen the number of events & support qwert's efforts instead. This and many other reasons combined were considered before making this decision and it was not done lightly.

While possibly in the future something like the ICL could be considered in a slightly altered format we will not be running this event. I want to thank all our supporters and those whose efforts to make this a success did not go unnoticed.

And while this season ICL will not begin, I still plan to be around and contribute to the clan area in the future. CD's - this thread can now be moved to archived.

Thanks,
Jason (aka, IcePack)
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Re: The International Clan League [Cancelled]

Postby Leehar on Thu May 24, 2012 12:31 pm

Is qwert's idea still on the table?
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Re: The International Clan League [Cancelled]

Postby IcePack on Thu May 24, 2012 12:41 pm

Leehar wrote:Is qwert's idea still on the table?


qwert is still running with his idea and entertaining discussions and suggestions for the league.
IcePack
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12:11:16 ‹Swifte› good thing we have the beta program to weed all these problems out
12:15:00 * IcePack joins Social
12:15:35 ‹Swifte› well that's just bad timing
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Captain IcePack
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Re: The International Clan League [Cancelled]

Postby General Brock II on Thu May 24, 2012 5:00 pm

IcePack wrote:
Leehar wrote:Is qwert's idea still on the table?


qwert is still running with his idea and entertaining discussions and suggestions for the league.
IcePack


That's disappointing, IcePack. I know MNDuke had his heart in this idea... I hope that you all are okay. :( May your future endeavours be successful, and certainly don't misplace your ideas and progress, for I still find it to be an excellent idea (if, perhaps, unfortunate timing).
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We shall fight in France. We shall fight on the seas and oceans. We shall fight, with growing confidence and strength in the air. ~ Winston Churchill
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Major General Brock II
 
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Re: The International Clan League [Cancelled]

Postby MudPuppy on Thu May 24, 2012 10:17 pm

That's a shame. Was really looking forward to the ICL. :(
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Re: The International Clan League [Cancelled]

Postby reptile on Fri May 25, 2012 12:01 am

is this for real? canceled? whats the reason if i may ask
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Re: The International Clan League [Cancelled]

Postby Rodion on Fri May 25, 2012 12:53 am

If I can't play, nobody will!

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On a serious note, sorry to see this end. I know the feeling of investing yourself in an endeavor and seeing it not work for whatever reason. Good luck in the future!
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Re: The International Clan League [Cancelled]

Postby chemefreak on Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:51 am

Looks like it didn't go because the TO started his own clan and his clan isn't in the event...
:twisted: ChemE :twisted: Praetor
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братья в рукоятках
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Major chemefreak
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