Account Sitting

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Re: Account Sitting

Postby tbayjosh on Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:59 pm

I am interested to see what the new rules are here !!!

I am a player that takes the game seriously. I don't like the idea of of my clan losing a war because I had some kind of computer problem or I was sick and no one could sit my turns for an odd day that something happened ( not good )
I am in every war that we have, some more than others and I have taken 99% of my turns I am on all the time and do not miss turns by choice. I do not think it is unreasonable to say that if I was sick or went MIA for a day because something happened that someone could jump in and take my turn !!
there should be no problem with that.
Now if a person is gone for a long time and someone needs to sit for him. Than that person should not be even playing !!!

I can see the problem from both sides of the fence but it will be hard to make any kind of good comment here until I see the new rules.
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Re: Account Sitting

Postby Keefie on Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:54 pm

I personally would like to see a limit to the number of turns that can be covered by a sitter. Say 2 for every 10 games in a war, so in 51 game war 10 turns could be covered by a sitter by each clan. A sitter should also be another player in the same game, no additional help from other clan members not involved in that game.
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Re: Account Sitting

Postby IcePack on Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:00 pm

Keefie wrote:I personally would like to see a limit to the number of turns that can be covered by a sitter. Say 2 for every 10 games in a war, so in 51 game war 10 turns could be covered by a sitter by each clan. A sitter should also be another player in the same game, no additional help from other clan members not involved in that game.


You can't force someone to use another player as a sitter. If they chose Bob as a sitter, just because Bob's not in the game doesn't mean you can force him to start trusting Joe with his password. It would force more and more people needing a password.
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12:11:16 ‹Swifte› good thing we have the beta program to weed all these problems out
12:15:00 * IcePack joins Social
12:15:35 ‹Swifte› well that's just bad timing
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Re: Account Sitting

Postby Vid_FISO on Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:07 pm

I don't think that you can make a hard and fast rule like that, something happens in player A's life so player B is the nominated sitter and something happens in his life could mean for the sake of a not having others sitting for one or both of them a long wait is forced upon the rest of the players and an all but won game lost.

Prolonged absences have to be on a case by case basis.

The larger problem that has to be addressed has to be the widespread sharing of log in details within some groups of players and those that jump in to play moves simply because they can. Add to that those that never intended to play their own moves throughout in the first place.
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Re: Account Sitting

Postby JustCallMeStupid on Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:19 pm

This is so stupid. I guess I would have to know what abuse is, I have maybe 3 or 4 times been able to take a turn within the first 18 hours but I wasnt sure on the move, but then I had to leave with only 6 hours remaining so I will text a clanmate what I was planning and to take the turn since I wont be back in 6 hours (maybe this is abuse to a select few anal retentives). I have hardly seen any abuse of clan sitting ever and I think it is ridiculous to impose a rule because 1% of games or less have a serious violation. I expect to cover turns how I always have, if a game has 2.5 hrs left and Im getting ready for bed I will cover it, if a clanmate says he is gone 3 days I will cover it. I will state in chat I am covering like I do for 80% of covers but if I forget on a rare occasion, it happens. And if i get banned then fine Im done with this site cause I deal with enough stupid laws in real life I dont need stupid laws on some game website.

If someone really is covering a majority of all clan members games as someone else mentioned, then punish that person and that clan. Dont make all of us suffer through some BS 1 hr rule and you have to state when, why and how long you are covering a turn because of some douche on the site is abusing the generic covering rules.
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Re: Account Sitting

Postby Lindax on Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:24 pm

JustCallMeStupid wrote:This is so stupid. I guess I would have to know what abuse is, I have maybe 3 or 4 times been able to take a turn within the first 18 hours but I wasnt sure on the move, but then I had to leave with only 6 hours remaining so I will text a clanmate what I was planning and to take the turn since I wont be back in 6 hours (maybe this is abuse to a select few anal retentives).


I must be one of the anal retentives, because I'm 100% sure that that is breaking the rules, i.e., abuse.

Apart from it being against the rules I find it morally wrong and cheating.

Lx
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Re: Account Sitting

Postby betiko on Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:58 pm

Lindax wrote:
JustCallMeStupid wrote:This is so stupid. I guess I would have to know what abuse is, I have maybe 3 or 4 times been able to take a turn within the first 18 hours but I wasnt sure on the move, but then I had to leave with only 6 hours remaining so I will text a clanmate what I was planning and to take the turn since I wont be back in 6 hours (maybe this is abuse to a select few anal retentives).


I must be one of the anal retentives, because I'm 100% sure that that is breaking the rules, i.e., abuse.

Apart from it being against the rules I find it morally wrong and cheating.

Lx


it's a TEAM GAME. clan game's interest is the ability to coordinate between all players involved an plan with drops attacks and forts agreeing with one another. it's not about playing your first thought that your teammates might not agree on with 23 hours left (well at least not if you aspire to do your best). I do think that it's not normal if it happens on a regular basis, but if it happens once in a while because of unplanned reasons, you are not going to let the turn be missed. How is having your teammate's back in case of unplanned absence cheating? You are not even in a clan, so how are problems between clans of your concern? you play a vast majority of standard games. Someone sitting a turn for another player in a standard game would be cheating 100%, but for his team? there are no conflicts of interests.
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Re: Account Sitting

Postby Lindax on Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:45 pm

betiko wrote:
Lindax wrote:
JustCallMeStupid wrote:This is so stupid. I guess I would have to know what abuse is, I have maybe 3 or 4 times been able to take a turn within the first 18 hours but I wasnt sure on the move, but then I had to leave with only 6 hours remaining so I will text a clanmate what I was planning and to take the turn since I wont be back in 6 hours (maybe this is abuse to a select few anal retentives).


I must be one of the anal retentives, because I'm 100% sure that that is breaking the rules, i.e., abuse.

Apart from it being against the rules I find it morally wrong and cheating.

Lx


it's a TEAM GAME. clan game's interest is the ability to coordinate between all players involved an plan with drops attacks and forts agreeing with one another. it's not about playing your first thought that your teammates might not agree on with 23 hours left (well at least not if you aspire to do your best). I do think that it's not normal if it happens on a regular basis, but if it happens once in a while because of unplanned reasons, you are not going to let the turn be missed. How is having your teammate's back in case of unplanned absence cheating? You are not even in a clan, so how are problems between clans of your concern? you play a vast majority of standard games. Someone sitting a turn for another player in a standard game would be cheating 100%, but for his team? there are no conflicts of interests.


And how is what I think your concern?

I have been in 2 clans for most of my time on CC, but that has nothing to do with this. The rule Stupid broke is a site rule that exists for a long time already. Letting somebody else take your turn "because you're not sure how to play it" is cheating.

I don't care if it's a clan game or not and if it happens once, twice or 10 times, it's cheating. And cheating is against the rules, disgusting, distasteful, AND gives honest players a disadvantage.

If we wouldn't have this wide-spread cheating in the clan world, I may still have been interested in being part of it.

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Re: Account Sitting

Postby betiko on Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:09 pm

I agree that if no one gives you feedback or you know that you'll be sleeping by then well you have no other choice than taking it the way you intend to, it's your teammate's fault. But if something unplanned happens, then someone else playing a turn that is going to be missed is nothing even close to cheating. I think it is very poor sportsmanship to blame an opposing team for not letting a turn to be missed. That is the kind of mentallity that I find disgusting and distatesful.
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Re: Account Sitting

Postby ahunda on Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:43 pm

Lindax: I think, you are completely misreading Stus statement. He is not saying, that he didn´t know, what to do with a turn & so decided to leave it for someone else to take for him.

He is talking about a situation, where he is looking at a turn with several possible options, and then he says to himself: "Hmpf, I have plenty of time left, I´ll think about it for a while & take another look later." Maybe he also leaves some notes in Chat for his team with his first ideas for the turn. Only then something comes up in RL, his planned schedule is turned upside down, and he finds, that suddenly he does not have the time he was expecting to have. He has to leave in a hurry & so he messages a team-mate to please cover for him. Please note also, that Stu says, this kind of thing has happened to him 3-4 times in his entire time on CC.

What is so bloody terrible about this ? How is this abuse & cheating ? There is no rule, that says, you must take your turn as soon as you can. And a RL emergency can happen, when you have turns waiting on CC, that - in hindsight - you could have taken yourself, when you first looked at the game. Only it is the nature of the beast, that emergencies come unannounced, and you didn´t know. You thought, you had plenty of time to take a second look, think about it some more, wait for feedback from your team and then take the turn yourself.

The beauty of team games is to communicate & not just do, what you think. To listen to the ideas of your team-mates, discuss different options, plan your common strategy. So yeah, this results in some turns being waited out. To give team-mates a chance to look at the game too & give some input. Maybe those team-mates are on different time zones too, and so you have to wait a bit longer til they are actually up & around.

I mean, what is it, that you want ? Force everybody to then miss all their turns in situations like this ? How is that making CC a better place ? And what does all of this have to do with abuse or unfair advantages, when the other team has the right to do the very same thing & sit turns in emergency too ?
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Re: Account Sitting

Postby Lindax on Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:53 pm

ahunda wrote:Lindax: I think, you are completely misreading Stus statement. He is not saying, that he didn´t know, what to do with a turn & so decided to leave it for someone else to take for him.

He is talking about a situation, where he is looking at a turn with several possible options, and then he says to himself: "Hmpf, I have plenty of time left, I´ll think about it for a while & take another look later." Maybe he also leaves some notes in Chat for his team with his first ideas for the turn. Only then something comes up in RL, his planned schedule is turned upside down, and he finds, that suddenly he does not have the time he was expecting to have. He has to leave in a hurry & so he messages a team-mate to please cover for him. Please note also, that Stu says, this kind of thing has happened to him 3-4 times in his entire time on CC.

What is so bloody terrible about this ? How is this abuse & cheating ? There is no rule, that says, you must take your turn as soon as you can. And a RL emergency can happen, when you have turns waiting on CC, that - in hindsight - you could have taken yourself, when you first looked at the game. Only it is the nature of the beast, that emergencies come unannounced, and you didn´t know. You thought, you had plenty of time to take a second look, think about it some more, wait for feedback from your team and then take the turn yourself.

The beauty of team games is to communicate & not just do, what you think. To listen to the ideas of your team-mates, discuss different options, plan your common strategy. So yeah, this results in some turns being waited out. To give team-mates a chance to look at the game too & give some input. Maybe those team-mates are on different time zones too, and so you have to wait a bit longer til they are actually up & around.

I mean, what is it, that you want ? Force everybody to then miss all their turns in situations like this ? How is that making CC a better place ? And what does all of this have to do with abuse or unfair advantages, when the other team has the right to do the very same thing & sit turns in emergency too ?


Excuse me boys, but here is the quote from Stupid:

JustCallMeStupid wrote:This is so stupid. I guess I would have to know what abuse is, I have maybe 3 or 4 times been able to take a turn within the first 18 hours but I wasnt sure on the move, but then I had to leave with only 6 hours remaining so I will text a clanmate what I was planning and to take the turn since I wont be back in 6 hours (maybe this is abuse to a select few anal retentives).


He had to leave with 6 hours remaining. Meaning he could have taken his turn then, but he didn't. He purposely left it for a clan mate to take. That is against the rules, no buts about it.

I totally agree with you (and betiko), that in emergencies one should be able to take a turn for a clan mate, team mate or just a cc buddy. But that was not what was going on here. He could have taken his turn, but didn't, because he wasn't sure of what move to make.

What I want? I'll tell you what I want: CC to enforce the rules and punish the cheaters. That's what I want. I'm not saying that Stupid should be burned at the stake. But he should be warned that what he described is against the rules and be warned not to do it again.

Lx
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Re: Account Sitting

Postby Bones2484 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:04 pm

Lindax is 100% correct. That scenario by Stupid is against the rules and was exactly what has been punished by C&A in the past. Waiting for advice is not a reason to let someone else take your turn.

Feel free to read through this case for the exact verdict on this. You'll see that both the sitter and the sittee were punished: viewtopic.php?f=239&t=145859

Though to be fair (as Ahunda pointed out) it's possible that an emergency happened that caused you to not be able to come back. This seems to be allowed as long as it is not consistently happening. However, this is not what Stupid was saying.
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Re: Account Sitting

Postby ahunda on Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:21 pm

Hmm, on second reading maybe it was me misinterpreting Stu. Maybe he can clarify that himself ...
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Re: Account Sitting

Postby TheMissionary on Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:10 pm

I think every clan should have a directive for themselves. They must be presented to the CD team and reviewed for approval. If that directive is broken, the clan should receive a punishment.
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Re: Account Sitting

Postby chapcrap on Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:21 pm

I agree with Lindax on this.
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Re: Account Sitting

Postby JustCallMeStupid on Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:15 pm

Bones2484 wrote:Lindax is 100% correct. That scenario by Stupid is against the rules and was exactly what has been punished by C&A in the past. Waiting for advice is not a reason to let someone else take your turn.

Feel free to read through this case for the exact verdict on this. You'll see that both the sitter and the sittee were punished: viewtopic.php?f=239&t=145859

Though to be fair (as Ahunda pointed out) it's possible that an emergency happened that caused you to not be able to come back. This seems to be allowed as long as it is not consistently happening. However, this is not what Stupid was saying.


I have something written up and I went through most of the top of the case example you presented as well as a few of the examples of turn abuse. This case has no relevance of what I am referring, I mean read the case, it's not the same situation at all. I will probably state a long winded summary shortly. But to put it brief. The purpose of team games and clan mates is to play as a team, if one member is unsure of the best move makes some suggestions and the other 2 or 3 teammates are unable to give feedback right away but they make a best decision and one of them takes the turn for said teammate I personally dont have a problem with this as long as it is not every turn or every game. Since there is no moral objective on this situation like there is in rl situations (i.e. murder and rape is objective) the morality of turn covering will need to be decided from broad agreement of the community. Just because Lindax doesnt like a teammate covering a turn per example I gave earlier doesnt make it immoral. The reality is if the teammates were able to get together in real time and discuss the turn, the turn would have been taken exactly the same way, hence team game, hence intelligent teammates will agree on a plan and take the turn the same way, if they can discuss it.
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Re: Account Sitting

Postby JustCallMeStupid on Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:47 pm

I cant believe u really want me to paint a picture for u Lindax. Yes u are the anal retentive one based on ur above comments.

Hypothetically if: I have had a rare game or three or four where I could not make a sure decision on the turn and was waiting for teammate feedback. Time got to a place where I left my ideas in chat but never got a complete decision from my teammates. With rl stuff to do I let my teammates know that I probably was not going to make it back in time and if they could either pick one of my ideas and take the turn or if there is a better option (most my games are 3v3 not 2v2). Basically they are doing the turn I was going to do that the other 2 teammates agreed on. I'm guessing this 'moral injustice' is somewhere in the unwritten rules on CC (please post a link to this rule and not the new one from last week.)? Whatever.

And yes to all u anal retentives out there who turn stupid crap like this into some punishable immoral act get a life. You will need to base these rules off of the community as a whole not just a couple of people going to the extreme. If there is a clan out there known for doing crap like one clan member taking multiple other's turns frequently and regularly and there is serious abuse then MAKE THAT CLAN ABIDE BY THOSE RESTRICTIVE RULES UNTIL the abuser is removed from the clan and have mods watch that clan like a hawk and let the rest of us enjoy our CC games being good sports in every way. Dont make all of us deal with the politics of some people that have some kind of utopian view of CC.

Lindax, we will have to disagree on moral imperfection here. I do not find it wrong for a teammate to cover a turn on a rare occasion (I'll define rare as once per 3 games, but that's just an opinion) if the person wants to make the right move for the team but cannot get a hold of their teammate and asks a teammate to decide from a couple of options they have suggested. Maybe someone needs to explain the purpose of having clan competitions and clan mates and team games with those mates if you cant cover another's turn in rare situations.

To do some hypothetical rough math based on my own game count. I've had 978 team games Ill assume 600 of those were with clan mates. And the average game goes 8 rounds 600*8=4800 turns now assume I had 4 covered per my example. so 4/4800 = .0008% of my turns I have done something that you, and probably not everyone, probably not most the people on this site, would define as 'immoral'. And we need a rule for every clan cause of this? I should be banned because of something that I believe most everyone else on this site has no issue with? Is this really the kind of rule people want and would this rule really make the site better?

I still love u Lindax, but we will probably disagree on this issue until the end of time, unless most the users on this site think I am wrong, in which case I guess I would admit you are right.
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Re: Account Sitting

Postby TheMissionary on Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:26 pm

JustCallMeStupid wrote:I cant believe u really want me to paint a picture for u Lindax. Yes u are the anal retentive one based on ur above comments.

Hypothetically if: I have had a rare game or three or four where I could not make a sure decision on the turn and was waiting for teammate feedback. Time got to a place where I left my ideas in chat but never got a complete decision from my teammates. With rl stuff to do I let my teammates know that I probably was not going to make it back in time and if they could either pick one of my ideas and take the turn or if there is a better option (most my games are 3v3 not 2v2). Basically they are doing the turn I was going to do that the other 2 teammates agreed on. I'm guessing this 'moral injustice' is somewhere in the unwritten rules on CC (please post a link to this rule and not the new one from last week.)? Whatever.

And yes to all u anal retentives out there who turn stupid crap like this into some punishable immoral act get a life. You will need to base these rules off of the community as a whole not just a couple of people going to the extreme. If there is a clan out there known for doing crap like one clan member taking multiple other's turns frequently and regularly and there is serious abuse then MAKE THAT CLAN ABIDE BY THOSE RESTRICTIVE RULES UNTIL the abuser is removed from the clan and have mods watch that clan like a hawk and let the rest of us enjoy our CC games being good sports in every way. Dont make all of us deal with the politics of some people that have some kind of utopian view of CC.

Lindax, we will have to disagree on moral imperfection here. I do not find it wrong for a teammate to cover a turn on a rare occasion (I'll define rare as once per 3 games, but that's just an opinion) if the person wants to make the right move for the team but cannot get a hold of their teammate and asks a teammate to decide from a couple of options they have suggested. Maybe someone needs to explain the purpose of having clan competitions and clan mates and team games with those mates if you cant cover another's turn in rare situations.

To do some hypothetical rough math based on my own game count. I've had 978 team games Ill assume 600 of those were with clan mates. And the average game goes 8 rounds 600*8=4800 turns now assume I had 4 covered per my example. so 4/4800 = .0008% of my turns I have done something that you, and probably not everyone, probably not most the people on this site, would define as 'immoral'. And we need a rule for every clan cause of this? I should be banned because of something that I believe most everyone else on this site has no issue with? Is this really the kind of rule people want and would this rule really make the site better?

I still love u Lindax, but we will probably disagree on this issue until the end of time, unless most the users on this site think I am wrong, in which case I guess I would admit you are right.


+1 =D>
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2013-11-13 11:47:40 - NapoleonTanerite [team]: "We will forgive your forgetting to use the troops in Turkey." It's hard to think with an erection, which I bet TM had!
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Re: Account Sitting

Postby Lindax on Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:49 pm

JustCallMeStupid wrote:I still love u Lindax, but we will probably disagree on this issue until the end of time, unless most the users on this site think I am wrong, in which case I guess I would admit you are right.


There are two things that you are mixing up.

One is that I can find something morally wrong. About that we could indeed discuss until the end of time. And I totally respect that you see something different than I do. If we would all agree about everything every day, the world would be a very boring place.

Two is that what you described in your original post and what your "implying" in the above post, is simply against the site rules that have existed for a long time already. It doesn't matter if you do it once or 200 times. That's a fact whether you like it or not. Not much use discussing that, unless your aim is to change those existing rules.

I still love you too and I'm going to leave it at this. I made my point clear enough and don't want to repeat myself until the end of time. ;)

Lx
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