The Official Clan Sitting Rules (Old Version)

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Re: The Offical Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Foxglove on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:28 am

Foxglove wrote:
Nicky15 wrote:No one should be put in for a game unless they can take the vast majority of their turns. Agreements still can be made between clans in regards to absences, both clans must agree. These games must not include the unlimited setting, or any other setting where an advantage could potentially be had.


Can you please explain what the unlimited setting has to do with anything described above?


I think my question might have been missed, as it hasn't been addressed yet.

Does this mean that players are not allowed to sit for each other in games with the unlimited fort setting?

If so, I think it's only fair and reasonable to include any other setting at which a more skilled player can outplay a less skilled player: escalating spoils, adjacent forts, foggy games, etc. Late game escalating turns require as much skill as early game unlimited fort turns - the difference is that far fewer clans and players have focused on developing their unlimited fort game strategies.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby betiko on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:32 am

freakns wrote:
jetsetwilly wrote:It seems pretty clear to me that this wasn't clear at all before ! However rule 5 should leave no doubt that this is not an acceptable practice from here on in.

and how do you plan to stop me from doing this(i havent done this just to be clear)?

i have phone numbers and e mails of some of my clan mates, and i had them before i have join CC. i am RL friend with many of them too, so if i want to do this, i will, and there is no rule that will stop me from doing it.

and if some of the rules are going to be applied based on trust(as you mentioned), then why having rules at all?!


+1. all this is ridiculous.

As I said, this is about clan A vs clan B. If you make such rules for the CC4 or whatever tournament it's normal so everyone is under the same rules. But in a war between 2 clans, if both teams agree on this kind of terms I don't see how it's external people's fucking problem. All terms should be agreed between 2 clans beforehand, the real cheating is if someone does not do what he agreed on.

Anyway, there is no way you can stop people from the same clan to know what is going on behind fog and to discuss opinions on what to do in fog or no fog games. In many clans the members don't know each other only by game chat or private forum. Lol, we even have a rl couple in our clan that lives together. Should it be prohibited to be in the same clan as your girfriend/boyfriend?
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby BGtheBrain on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:36 am

freakns wrote:
BGtheBrain wrote:
Being on another player's account for ANY reasons other than taking turns when they are in danger of missing a turn, or posting to necessary Tournament or Clan related public forum topics, is not allowed. Abuse of this privilege can be considered account sharing and could result in a Bust for both accounts.

but we all do this! all top clans are doing this! and its not going to stop. and what is the worse thing, me logging into someones acc and looking at map, or someone taking snap posting at internal forum and asking for advice?!

i am on this site because of clans and clan wars. i dont care about points, tournaments, titles, medals, etc, etc... i like to play a game or two for fun, but the only games that really interest me are clan games. and i want to be able to see what is going on in clan games im not in, and you are telling me its abuse of rules? just to look at the game?! thats beyond stupid.


The issue is logging in to someone elses account for something other than taking a turn.

If they want to take a SS and post it in the forum, no one is telling you not to do that (from what I understand)

You are not entitled to see what is going on under the fog of games you are not involved in, clan or otherwise.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby jetsetwilly on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:38 am

betiko wrote:
freakns wrote:
jetsetwilly wrote:It seems pretty clear to me that this wasn't clear at all before ! However rule 5 should leave no doubt that this is not an acceptable practice from here on in.

and how do you plan to stop me from doing this(i havent done this just to be clear)?

i have phone numbers and e mails of some of my clan mates, and i had them before i have join CC. i am RL friend with many of them too, so if i want to do this, i will, and there is no rule that will stop me from doing it.

and if some of the rules are going to be applied based on trust(as you mentioned), then why having rules at all?!


+1. all this is ridiculous.

As I said, this is about clan A vs clan B. If you make such rules for the CC4 or whatever tournament it's normal so everyone is under the same rules. But in a war between 2 clans, if both teams agree on this kind of terms I don't see how it's external people's fucking problem. All terms should be agreed between 2 clans beforehand, the real cheating is if someone does not do what he agreed on.

Anyway, there is no way you can stop people from the same clan to know what is going on behind fog and to discuss opinions on what to do in fog or no fog games. In many clans the members don't know each other only by game chat or private forum. Lol, we even have a rl couple in our clan that lives together. Should it be prohibited to be in the same clan as your girfriend/boyfriend?


If you want to discuss turns over a phone, share a screen in a house, pop around to your friend's house, post a screen shot in a forum, then clearly we aren't here to police that and you can do as you wish. Some people might not agree that it's right (I'm not one of them) but of course there's nothing to stop you doing this.

This rule is specifically around logging into someone else's account.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Lindax on Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:01 pm

jetsetwilly wrote:I refer you back to the previous point from BGtheBrain which predates all of this.

"Being on another player's account for ANY reasons other than taking turns when they are in danger of missing a turn, or posting to necessary Tournament or Clan related public forum topics, is not allowed. Abuse of this privilege can be considered account sharing and could result in a Bust for both accounts"

If all the top clans are doing it then they certainly won't be in future unless they want to risk being busted.


=D>

Play your own games and take your own turns. If you can't do that you shouldn't be in a clan war and/or tournament.

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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby freakns on Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:24 pm

Lindax wrote:
jetsetwilly wrote:I refer you back to the previous point from BGtheBrain which predates all of this.

"Being on another player's account for ANY reasons other than taking turns when they are in danger of missing a turn, or posting to necessary Tournament or Clan related public forum topics, is not allowed. Abuse of this privilege can be considered account sharing and could result in a Bust for both accounts"

If all the top clans are doing it then they certainly won't be in future unless they want to risk being busted.


=D>

Play your own games and take your own turns. If you can't do that you shouldn't be in a clan war and/or tournament.

Lx

so if you are interested to see how clan games are going then you shouldnt be in the clan? good point pancake, great one actually.
btw has anyone ever played a move for you, or have you ever played a move for someone?
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby IcePack on Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:31 pm

Ask your partners or get a screen shot if you want to know how the games going. Simple.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Bones2484 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:34 pm

freakns and betiko: Team CC has made it very clear that you should not have someone else's permanent password and thus you should already have not been doing what you are arguing for. This is not new and is not changing with these rules. That has been a site rule for awhile now. As has been mentioned, there are perfectly legal workarounds that require a bit more effort on the part of the actual players in the game (as it should be).
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Lindax on Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:41 pm

freakns wrote:btw has anyone ever played a move for you, or have you ever played a move for someone?


No, never.

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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby denominator on Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:06 pm

Personally, I don't see what the big deal is here. Most clans I have interacted with have all followed these rules already, with the possible exception of the new 1-hour rule. It really comes down to one thing - only you should be taking your turns.

My one issue is that this rule:

Nicky15 wrote:2, Emergency cover may only be given if the person really is in danger of missing a turn. Therefore a turn can only be covered if there is an hour or less left on the clock. But steps must be taken to contact the player before hand.


contradicts this rule:

Nicky15 wrote:5, You must also not give permission for anyone to wander in and out of your account at their will. Take care of your account. What happens with it is your responsibility.


How are we expected to cover a clanmate's turn in emergency situations (following the 1-hour rule) if we do not know their password ahead of time?

Also, it seems to me that players are taking the word "vacation" too literally. I believe that "vacation" is a stand-in word for "excusable absence from the site for a foreseeable period of time".
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby freakns on Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:16 pm

Bones2484 wrote:freakns and betiko: Team CC has made it very clear that you should not have someone else's permanent password and thus you should already have not been doing what you are arguing for. This is not new and is not changing with these rules. That has been a site rule for awhile now. As has been mentioned, there are perfectly legal workarounds that require a bit more effort on the part of the actual players in the game (as it should be).

and now you are going to tell me that noone, especially in clan world, is not having anyone permanent password? we can talk all day how this is site rule, but reality is different. and if you ban/block all the accounts that have permanent sitter a lot of premium accounts will be deleted. you know it, i know it, and CC owner knows it. so yeah, it is site rule which noone cares about...
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby IcePack on Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:18 pm

freakns wrote:
Bones2484 wrote:freakns and betiko: Team CC has made it very clear that you should not have someone else's permanent password and thus you should already have not been doing what you are arguing for. This is not new and is not changing with these rules. That has been a site rule for awhile now. As has been mentioned, there are perfectly legal workarounds that require a bit more effort on the part of the actual players in the game (as it should be).

and now you are going to tell me that noone, especially in clan world, is not having anyone permanent password? we can talk all day how this is site rule, but reality is different. and if you ban/block all the accounts that have permanent sitter a lot of premium accounts will be deleted. you know it, i know it, and CC owner knows it. so yeah, it is site rule which noone cares about...


While that may or may not be true it's always been against the rules to be jumping on those accounts you sit to be looking at any games behind fog etc. for any purpose besides actually sitting a turn.
Last edited by IcePack on Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby L M S on Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:20 pm

Good thing the CD's can't hand out warnings for people...lots of admissions of systematically breaking site rules in this thread over long periods of time by very reputable people.
yikes.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby IcePack on Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:26 pm

L M S wrote:Good thing the CD's can't hand out warnings for people...lots of admissions of systematically breaking site rules in this thread over long periods of time by very reputable people.
yikes.


CD's can't, but MH's can.
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Re: The Offical Clan Sitting Rules

Postby TheMissionary on Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:26 pm

Bruceswar wrote:

IcePack wrote:
TheMissionary wrote:I disagree with 1 hour. Sometimes i get into a project and will not make it home in time to play, so I text a clan member and ask them to cover up until a certain time. If that time gets close to passing I'll do the same process again.


I think that something like this should have been considered as well, instead of that person having to stay on for 8 hours waiting for each individual game getting down to an hour, being able to cover the expected delay or problem time frame until you expect to be able to get back on.


As of right now the 1 hour rule will stand. If we see this is causing too many problems it can be relooked at. In response to Missionary, do not put yourself in a situation where that comes up. Plan ahead of time. Do not rely on your teammates to cover for you, but rather take the turns yourself. Sure life happens but as it stands in the case as you described your clan mates will have to wait till the last hour to take those turns. How do we as CD's know you will be out till time X? That opens up room for people to lie.


So if I am not breaking any rules on CC, why should I have to abide by the clan areas individual rules? This came up because there was a question of honor about sitting techniques of another player/s. Never once have I or any of my clan members attempted to abuse this system. Why should the rest of us have to follow a makeshift rule, just because someone else did? I'm not going to run my life around CC. I have lots of things to do sometimes, I can't always plan my time better for a game. Sorry, I am not breaking any rules, so I will continue with what works best for me and the people I play with. I don't think any of you have the right to tell any of us how to manage our own time. If rules are being broken, deal with the individuals, don't place restrictions on the rest of us who do not abuse the system. I am not flaming anyone, I am just expressing myself.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby IcePack on Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:32 pm

I agree in principle with TheMissionary. I think there were a few cases of individuals abusing tr system and this is a bit overreaction for the rest of the clans that have been sitting without problems.

However, if rules are to be placed I still think there are things that should be relooked at.

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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby freakns on Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:08 pm

IcePack wrote:
freakns wrote:
Bones2484 wrote:freakns and betiko: Team CC has made it very clear that you should not have someone else's permanent password and thus you should already have not been doing what you are arguing for. This is not new and is not changing with these rules. That has been a site rule for awhile now. As has been mentioned, there are perfectly legal workarounds that require a bit more effort on the part of the actual players in the game (as it should be).

and now you are going to tell me that noone, especially in clan world, is not having anyone permanent password? we can talk all day how this is site rule, but reality is different. and if you ban/block all the accounts that have permanent sitter a lot of premium accounts will be deleted. you know it, i know it, and CC owner knows it. so yeah, it is site rule which noone cares about...


While that may or may not be true it's always been against the rules to be jumping on those accounts you sit to be looking at any games behind fog etc. for any purpose besides actually sitting a turn.

i admit i have break the rules of this site by having permanent password of some members and by giving mine permanent password to some members. this is against the rules just as much as it against the rules to look at fog situation. so dont preach me how im breaking site rules when you clearly doing the same. dont be a hypocrite. and its not just me and you, its majority of clan community. if everything is played strictly by the rules of site then there would be no need for emergency rule because noone could take your turn.

im asking what is wrong with looking into fog games of your clan without making comments? its same shit as having someones permanent password.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby IcePack on Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:17 pm

freakns wrote:
IcePack wrote:
freakns wrote:
Bones2484 wrote:freakns and betiko: Team CC has made it very clear that you should not have someone else's permanent password and thus you should already have not been doing what you are arguing for. This is not new and is not changing with these rules. That has been a site rule for awhile now. As has been mentioned, there are perfectly legal workarounds that require a bit more effort on the part of the actual players in the game (as it should be).

and now you are going to tell me that noone, especially in clan world, is not having anyone permanent password? we can talk all day how this is site rule, but reality is different. and if you ban/block all the accounts that have permanent sitter a lot of premium accounts will be deleted. you know it, i know it, and CC owner knows it. so yeah, it is site rule which noone cares about...


While that may or may not be true it's always been against the rules to be jumping on those accounts you sit to be looking at any games behind fog etc. for any purpose besides actually sitting a turn.

i admit i have break the rules of this site by having permanent password of some members and by giving mine permanent password to some members. this is against the rules just as much as it against the rules to look at fog situation. so dont preach me how im breaking site rules when you clearly doing the same. dont be a hypocrite. and its not just me and you, its majority of clan community. if everything is played strictly by the rules of site then there would be no need for emergency rule because noone could take your turn.

im asking what is wrong with looking into fog games of your clan without making comments? its same shit as having someones permanent password.


I've never gone into others accounts looking at clan war games or any other reason other than to sit a game. That has been very clear in rules. That has been considered account sharing.

I'm not "preaching" anything. You previously stated "all top clans log in and look at fog games" and I was saying that's BS.
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12:11:16 ‹Swifte› good thing we have the beta program to weed all these problems out
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby freakns on Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:34 pm

first of all, you are not in top clan... secondly, if you arent doing it that doesnt mean noone from your clan is doing it. thirdly, you said its against the rule to look at fog games and thats how it was since ever, yet having permanent password is not important atm...

look, i can live without looking at fog games, but if you are going to punish me because of it, then lets all follow the site rules to the letter. no permanent password sharing! with this, there will be no emergency sitting. every member who needs sitting will announce in clan war thread time he will be absent, fact that he has changed his password and names of his sitters. you want me to go further into all the site rules?!
or shell we stop this charade and just call this as it is? clan directors are trying to clear up the situation as much as possible before KORT vs TOFU war which is around the corner, otherwise they fear josko and COF will behave even worse then they did in last clan war. we can all dance with flowers in our hair singing peace songs and blablabla, but the truth is there is clear and present hatred between TOFU and KORT. if they say they respect each other, its a lie! they hate each other and would love nothing more then to caught other clan in any sort of cheating. if they can chose between having clear win and catching other clan in cheating both clans would chose second.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby IcePack on Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:44 pm

freakns wrote:first of all, you are not in top clan... secondly, if you arent doing it that doesnt mean noone from your clan is doing it. thirdly, you said its against the rule to look at fog games and thats how it was since ever, yet having permanent password is not important atm...


First of all, never said I was (and neither are you). If you doubt is feel free to challenge us or STFU.

Secondly, no our CLAN does not participate in this. It was clearly against the rules and we have regularly had to ask members who are in the games (or get screen shots) to get updates and never logged in as you described.

Thirdly, I don't just say it, it is against the rules as account sharing. Sharing passwords has been gone over plenty of times in the past in other areas. Feel free to argue that point all you want. I'm addressing the previous point you made about account sharing / looking in on other games. I don't need to address everything you say just because you say it.

Have a great day.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Finsfleet on Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:06 pm

Nicky15 wrote:1, Make sure you inform your clan organizer of any planned vacations in advance

That`s just BS
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Finsfleet on Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:15 pm

This site is online for years now. There`s simply no excuse for not having account sitting functionality covered by the application. Forcing users to share their passwords is ridiculous.

I will not conform to this rule. I will not inform anyone in advance when I leave, except the people that are supposed to sit for me. And if I`m banned for this, or one of my sitters, I`ll stop playing the game.

Do not bother answering to this post, because I will not be back to read the answer.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby SaMejoHn on Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:38 pm

many of you have huge sticks up your asses...just relax, and play. so what if a clan wants their best player to take turns, if that's what's going on, it is a clan vs. clan war and he's a member. People pay for this site! I'm not currently in a clan but I would like to join one soon but all this micro managing is too much. How can people with no real authority (IMO) tell a paying member that he cant enjoy what other members enjoy simply because he has a life on saturday and sunday. Some of you take this too serious, but at what point does it become taking it too serious?
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby eddie2 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:40 pm

I am 100 percent behind these rules being brought out and have just caught up with this thread but had no time to read it all. So i am sorry if i am posting things already been discussed.

lets start with the first section,


1, The announcing in chat, of the name of the person who has covered a turn will now be mandatory.


this rule is fair enough, but i think you could add that a post in the open challenge thread from the account owner or sitter will be allowed as long as they say when the sitting ends. like me i often sit for a player and forget to post but ips will tell and if a player forgets it will cause a report for a simple mistake.

2, Emergency cover may only be given if the person really is in danger of missing a turn. Therefore a turn can only be covered if there is an hour or less left on the clock. But steps must be taken to contact the player before hand.


this rule is fair enough as long as you are going to take into account where in the world players who are sitting are ie do you expect myself to get up at 3.00 in the morning to sit for someone because i have to do it in the final hour....

3, Sitting for the purpose of covering an extended break from the site can carry on as normal, turns can be taken whenever it is convenient, the sitter can add to chat, but the player on vacation must not take turns themselves during this time or add to game chat. Account sitting is for holidays, vacations and emergencies only.


no comment this is fair.

4, You must not enter clan games if you know in advance that you will not be able to take the vast majority of your turns in any game or be unable to take your turns on a regular basis. Having your account sat on a regular basis for the duration of any clan game will no longer be allowed. If you are going to participate in clan games, it should be you who will actually play in these games.


i would like to see a time scale for this because some games can last as little as 2-3 days some longer so maybe put a limit for the following..

doubles = 7 days before vacation
triples= 12 days
quads= 14 days.

also like reticently i was away for 3 days so depending on play order and when opposing team signed up do i have to miss a whole round of games because i might of missed my first or 2nd turn..

also like reticently highlighted in the josko case i would like to see a rule added that if a player cannot play on weekends they say in game chat and the team try delay there shots to allow this not to need a sitter, also asking opposing team to delay turns and if this is forgotten by the opposing team but follwed by the players team then this is ok to do by a sitter.

5, You must not be in another persons account for any reason, other than to cover turns while that person is on vacation. Adding to chat in a game you are not in for example will not be allowed. You must also not give permission for anyone to wander in and out of your account at their will. Take care of your account. What happens with it is your responsibility.
what if the person is absent and are the following...


1) running a challenge thread (can the sitter update it.)
2) hold privs for a cla clan tourney event (can they make and invite players) while sitting. because punishments are issued for late creation.
3)this is one i was busted for in the event there is a vote in cla and clan leaders are pmed about it but not a member themselves read it and make there vote via pmn from there own account to the other members letting the cla no that clans vote.

these are just my thoughts on things that need to be verified in the rules, and like i said i am sorry if they have already been addressed but these need to be confirmed to stop silly reports. as from what i see you have a good set of rules they just need a little bit of tweaking.

thank you..
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby freakns on Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:53 pm

IcePack wrote:
freakns wrote:first of all, you are not in top clan... secondly, if you arent doing it that doesnt mean noone from your clan is doing it. thirdly, you said its against the rule to look at fog games and thats how it was since ever, yet having permanent password is not important atm...


First of all, never said I was (and neither are you). If you doubt is feel free to challenge us or STFU.

Secondly, no our CLAN does not participate in this. It was clearly against the rules and we have regularly had to ask members who are in the games (or get screen shots) to get updates and never logged in as you described.

Thirdly, I don't just say it, it is against the rules as account sharing. Sharing passwords has been gone over plenty of times in the past in other areas. Feel free to argue that point all you want. I'm addressing the previous point you made about account sharing / looking in on other games. I don't need to address everything you say just because you say it.

Have a great day.
IcePack

first, you are right, im not. but i have been in one.
noone from our clan has ever made snapshots then post them on forum... ppl who are in game play that game, permanent. there is no sharing information, taking over actions from others, etc, etc. fact that i get into someones account and look into game without leaving comment does not effect game in any way, nor does effect security of the site. i still havent got any answer why is this offensive but the "its written in the rules" answer. well, its written in the rules that you are forbidden to have someones password and yet you are doing it. i dont participate in account sharing because i have never used someones password for my own benefit. i have never join the game for someone, even if im sitting for someone and invitation pops up, i neither accept it or decline it. i have never create a game under someones account. i have never make a move into game if i havent been asked to do so because account owner can not make it. i even dont use "emergency" rule.

ps. saying someone to shut the f*ck up is really mature. and polite. and more then anything its unbeatable argument in any discussion.
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