The Official Clan Sitting Rules (Old Version)

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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby crispybits on Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:40 am

greenoaks wrote:it seems to me a lot of players believe missing turns is the end of the world and sitters are a god given right.

perhaps all account sitting should be banned. no exceptions. you take your turn or it is missed.


+1

The simplest way to solve the problem imo

Yes it will be unpopular, so what? In the short term the site loses a few members (a decent chunk of which will be members who are fairly loose about following the rules anyway - aka CHEATS). In the long term there is no controversy, no big arguments, and the players that are left that are willing to play by the rules can play based on honest individual merit.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby SirSebstar on Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:16 am

crispybits wrote:
greenoaks wrote:it seems to me a lot of players believe missing turns is the end of the world and sitters are a god given right.

perhaps all account sitting should be banned. no exceptions. you take your turn or it is missed.


+1

The simplest way to solve the problem imo

Yes it will be unpopular, so what? In the short term the site loses a few members (a decent chunk of which will be members who are fairly loose about following the rules anyway - aka CHEATS). In the long term there is no controversy, no big arguments, and the players that are left that are willing to play by the rules can play based on honest individual merit.


I see CC as a place where regular people with jobs can play a bit of cc, even in the clanwars.
playing as a regular joe will mean real life sometimes throws you a curveball. So why should the punk with no job and unlimited time be better then me? The only difference being i would have to miss a turn or more, and that being a killer on any level playingfield.
With no sitting you would get a new type of farming, just extent the game long enough for someone to miss, and then you still win, regardless of your skill....
still i do get that its a lot easyer, so i'll grant you that. I like playing cc myself though, so letting someone else play for me, well thats.... hard for me. i use it rarely, but i do use it
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby IcePack on Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:33 am

My suggestion to "help" the 1 hour time rule is this:

Keep the 1 hour rule. If a turn is sat you must post in chat.
Expand the rule to 2-4 hours, and in addition to the chat a reason for sitting must also be given.

Example:
1 hour or less:
IcePack for ChapCrap
3 hours:
IcePack for ChapCrap - he hurt his lady parts and is in the ER. It's 2300 and I'm off to bed, couldn't wait the extra 2 hours.

If patterns start emerging, or extensive use of the additional time is noticed, a clan can ask CD's to review the frequency and reasons and a they can either ok it, give a warning, etc.

This allows some flexibility, while keeping the intent to minimize sitting and abuse and allows the opposing clan easy access to info if they feel the other clan is going overboard.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby jj3044 on Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:08 am

IcePack wrote:My suggestion to "help" the 1 hour time rule is this:

Keep the 1 hour rule. If a turn is sat you must post in chat.
Expand the rule to 2-4 hours, and in addition to the chat a reason for sitting must also be given.

Example:
1 hour or less:
IcePack for ChapCrap
3 hours:
IcePack for ChapCrap - he hurt his lady parts and is in the ER. It's 2300 and I'm off to bed, couldn't wait the extra 2 hours.

If patterns start emerging, or extensive use of the additional time is noticed, a clan can ask CD's to review the frequency and reasons and a they can either ok it, give a warning, etc.

This allows some flexibility, while keeping the intent to minimize sitting and abuse and allows the opposing clan easy access to info if they feel the other clan is going overboard.

Agreed. Or:
If emergency sitting for someone and their first game up is under an hour, you are allowed to "catch them up" for 4-8 hours (can debate the actual time frame). This allows for normal sleeping patterns. As long as the initial game is under an hour I think this would be an acceptable amendment?
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby jetsetwilly on Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:17 am

jj3044 wrote:
IcePack wrote:My suggestion to "help" the 1 hour time rule is this:

Keep the 1 hour rule. If a turn is sat you must post in chat.
Expand the rule to 2-4 hours, and in addition to the chat a reason for sitting must also be given.

Example:
1 hour or less:
IcePack for ChapCrap
3 hours:
IcePack for ChapCrap - he hurt his lady parts and is in the ER. It's 2300 and I'm off to bed, couldn't wait the extra 2 hours.

If patterns start emerging, or extensive use of the additional time is noticed, a clan can ask CD's to review the frequency and reasons and a they can either ok it, give a warning, etc.

This allows some flexibility, while keeping the intent to minimize sitting and abuse and allows the opposing clan easy access to info if they feel the other clan is going overboard.

Agreed. Or:
If emergency sitting for someone and their first game up is under an hour, you are allowed to "catch them up" for 4-8 hours (can debate the actual time frame). This allows for normal sleeping patterns. As long as the initial game is under an hour I think this would be an acceptable amendment?


I will check with the other CD's but I think we were of the belief that in the event of an emergency, it's only the first turn that has to run to under an hour. If you are contacted and clearly told that a player will not be able to return for next 24 hours then it's reasonable to be able to catch them up as it were. I will confirm.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby crispybits on Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:22 am

SirSebstar wrote:
crispybits wrote:
greenoaks wrote:it seems to me a lot of players believe missing turns is the end of the world and sitters are a god given right.

perhaps all account sitting should be banned. no exceptions. you take your turn or it is missed.


+1

The simplest way to solve the problem imo

Yes it will be unpopular, so what? In the short term the site loses a few members (a decent chunk of which will be members who are fairly loose about following the rules anyway - aka CHEATS). In the long term there is no controversy, no big arguments, and the players that are left that are willing to play by the rules can play based on honest individual merit.


I see CC as a place where regular people with jobs can play a bit of cc, even in the clanwars.
playing as a regular joe will mean real life sometimes throws you a curveball. So why should the punk with no job and unlimited time be better then me? The only difference being i would have to miss a turn or more, and that being a killer on any level playingfield.
With no sitting you would get a new type of farming, just extent the game long enough for someone to miss, and then you still win, regardless of your skill....
still i do get that its a lot easyer, so i'll grant you that. I like playing cc myself though, so letting someone else play for me, well thats.... hard for me. i use it rarely, but i do use it


I'm a normal joe - I have 2 jobs (though to be fair one of them is very irregular and doesn't take much time at all). I still manage to get in and make most of my turns (the one turn I missed on a game recently was down to my own stupid fault falling asleep and forgetting it was due)

The rules wouldn't favour one normal joe over another in the long run, as both will have the odd missed turn once in a while, so it should even out.

And as for extending games, well there is a skill is dragging a game out, and a skill to closing a game down quickly. Yes there would be different strategies coming into play, and some people would probably adapt better than others, but there would still be skill involved, and even better it would be the skill of the individual named in the game log, not their mate or clan-mate who has played hundreds or thousands of games more than them on that map.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby IcePack on Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:24 am

Fast posted: in reply to jet

That isn't what Bruce's response to themissionary seemed to indicate. But if that's the case please let us know. A big clarification.

Although if it's 2300 and the first game is 3 hours, 3.5 and 4 hours that still does nothing to help sit and my proposal would be more ideal.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby jetsetwilly on Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:27 am

IcePack wrote:Fast posted: in reply to jet

That isn't what Bruce's response to themissionary seemed to indicate. But if that's the case please let us know. A big clarification.

Although if it's 2300 and the first game is 3 hours, 3.5 and 4 hours that still does nothing to help sit and my proposal would be more ideal.


Oops so it does. I shall give myself a slap on the wrist and clarify.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby HardAttack on Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:35 am

crispybits wrote:
greenoaks wrote:it seems to me a lot of players believe missing turns is the end of the world and sitters are a god given right.

perhaps all account sitting should be banned. no exceptions. you take your turn or it is missed.


+1

The simplest way to solve the problem imo

Yes it will be unpopular, so what? In the short term the site loses a few members (a decent chunk of which will be members who are fairly loose about following the rules anyway - aka CHEATS). In the long term there is no controversy, no big arguments, and the players that are left that are willing to play by the rules can play based on honest individual merit.


since account sitting is a matter in risk game/s, or a matter of conquer club, so you have got a better deal maybe you fully close/shut down the site ? This way you wudnt needed to bother urselfves with account sitting problem/s... How is that ?
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby crispybits on Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:39 am

since account sitting is a matter in risk game/s, or a matter of conquer club, so you have got a better deal maybe you fully close/shut down the site ? This way you wudnt needed to bother urselfves with account sitting problem/s... How is that ?


So without account sitting CC ceases to exist? Please......
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby HardAttack on Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:51 am

crispybits wrote:
since account sitting is a matter in risk game/s, or a matter of conquer club, so you have got a better deal maybe you fully close/shut down the site ? This way you wudnt needed to bother urselfves with account sitting problem/s... How is that ?


So without account sitting CC ceases to exist? Please......


brother,
believe me, yes account sitting is such an important part of gaming in this site, especially an unavoidable part of clan wars...
then it comes to clan/s ? lets remove them ? if happens, in very short time prolly this site wud lose 5000 customer in a month to a year...
that much ppl, directly or indirectly a part of this clan world.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby BADPAT on Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:56 am

The main reason for the start of this thread is to minimise cheating in clanchallenges and clan tournaments wich IMHO opinion is a good idea as long as the rules that are gonna be set actually stop cheating and/or the breaking any CC rule.

I am sure that every single competitive clan has a thread of list in their own clan forums thats shows them the most favorite games and settings of their members. All home games are based on that detailed info as it gives the clanleaders and/or MOW the tools to form the best teams for any upcoming clanchallenge or clantournament. The same goes for the away games and fill those with the best team possible. ( one of the exceptions is the Random League with its random games ).

The majority of the games in challenges and tournaments is mostly dubs, trips and quads. ( and yes i know in this case there are also exceptions) but i want to use the dubs, trips and quads as an example.

At least a week or two before the start of any clanchallenge or clan tournament we start a thread in our forums about these upcoming challenges or tournaments and ask our members if they are available to take part in this challenge or tournament. This gives us the needed info in advance so we know who of our members can be used and who isnt gonna be around. If not available we just do not use those members. This will solv the most problems of missed turns or the need for a sitter.

As the clanleaders and/or Mows have created the best teams for those dubs, trips and quads why not use the teammates as an exclusive sitter for their fellow teammate and do not allow any other member of a clan that is not in that specific game as a sitter.

For dubs it will give you one sitter.
For trips it will give you two sitters.
For quads it will give you three sitters.

A seperate rule can be implimented for singles.

This will stop having members of a clan exceed the limit of games they are allowed to participate in and limits account sitting as clanleaders and/or MOWs have to think twice before putting a team in a game. Probably will minimise abuse as well and will solv the problem of players that for whatever reason dont have internet during weekends.

It is maby even possible to change the time limit of 1 hr into 4 hrs. ( Just an idea).

There is allways gonna be a bunch of players that are gonna cheat and CC is not an exception. It is unreal to think that most of the rules who have been sugested are gonna change that. Random ip checks for one is a good idea but its just not gonna work and certanly isnt gonna make you bust cheaters. There is enough free software around on the net that makes it possible to login CC or any other online game without you guys finding out and still will show you the ip of the players account that has been logged into withouth you guys knowing if it was that owner of the account or someone with the right software who is able to do so and lives at the other end of the world.

I still do appriciate the effort from the CD's side tho.

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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Vid_FISO on Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:01 pm

IcePack wrote:My suggestion to "help" the 1 hour time rule is this:

Keep the 1 hour rule. If a turn is sat you must post in chat.
Expand the rule to 2-4 hours, and in addition to the chat a reason for sitting must also be given.

Example:
1 hour or less:
IcePack for ChapCrap
3 hours:
IcePack for ChapCrap - he hurt his lady parts and is in the ER. It's 2300 and I'm off to bed, couldn't wait the extra 2 hours.

If patterns start emerging, or extensive use of the additional time is noticed, a clan can ask CD's to review the frequency and reasons and a they can either ok it, give a warning, etc.

This allows some flexibility, while keeping the intent to minimize sitting and abuse and allows the opposing clan easy access to info if they feel the other clan is going overboard.


But chapcrap was online for 3 hours 9-12 hours ago, played moves in 30+ games, played a handful of speed games, finished a couple of other games in RT, made a half dozen forum posts and sorted out a few pms, including the one that said "waiting for instructions in game xxxxxx, tonight's the quarterly night where the missus is willing to have shag which understandably I'm not going to rush as the next one is due around Easter, please wait for the instructions and follow them for me" (nothing against chapcrap of course, he's your example)
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby IcePack on Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:20 pm

Vid_FISO wrote:
IcePack wrote:My suggestion to "help" the 1 hour time rule is this:

Keep the 1 hour rule. If a turn is sat you must post in chat.
Expand the rule to 2-4 hours, and in addition to the chat a reason for sitting must also be given.

Example:
1 hour or less:
IcePack for ChapCrap
3 hours:
IcePack for ChapCrap - he hurt his lady parts and is in the ER. It's 2300 and I'm off to bed, couldn't wait the extra 2 hours.

If patterns start emerging, or extensive use of the additional time is noticed, a clan can ask CD's to review the frequency and reasons and a they can either ok it, give a warning, etc.

This allows some flexibility, while keeping the intent to minimize sitting and abuse and allows the opposing clan easy access to info if they feel the other clan is going overboard.


But chapcrap was online for 3 hours 9-12 hours ago, played moves in 30+ games, played a handful of speed games, finished a couple of other games in RT, made a half dozen forum posts and sorted out a few pms, including the one that said "waiting for instructions in game xxxxxx, tonight's the quarterly night where the missus is willing to have shag which understandably I'm not going to rush as the next one is due around Easter, please wait for the instructions and follow them for me" (nothing against chapcrap of course, he's your example)


Not every game or every clan waits until the last hour and comments. Sometimes, a player plays all games he's able to and the has to step out.

If I (example) have 10 games ongoing and it's my turn in 6 of them. I play 3 quickly while drinking coffee before class and then go to class. If I fall and trip after class and break an ankle my turns should be able to get covered.

Again this is why you'd then post in the game chat the reasons. If a clan thinks its silly or sees that chap has been all over the forums they can ask for a review and CDs can warn the clan on a case by case basis, especially if patterns of abuse seem likely. That way legimate sitting can still be accomplished within different time zones etc and you have to justify every turn taken over 1 hour.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby chemefreak on Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:28 pm

Okay. Don't you people have anything better to do? Like play some other player's turns? ;)
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