The Official Clan Sitting Rules (Old Version)

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Re: The Offical Clan Sitting Rules

Postby greenoaks on Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:22 pm

JustCallMeStupid wrote:+1 =D> simple is better :)

the simplist thing is no account sitting at all.

play your own turns and if you miss one, you get deferred troops. that is what they are there for.
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Re: The Offical Clan Sitting Rules

Postby agentcom on Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:56 pm

greenoaks wrote:
JustCallMeStupid wrote:+1 =D> simple is better :)

the simplist thing is no account sitting at all.

play your own turns and if you miss one, you get deferred troops. that is what they are there for.


I don't want to live in that world.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby catnipdreams on Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:05 pm

agentcom wrote:I don't want to live in that world.

+1
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Re: The Offical Clan Sitting Rules

Postby jj3044 on Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:27 pm

greenoaks wrote:
JustCallMeStupid wrote:+1 =D> simple is better :)

the simplist thing is no account sitting at all.

play your own turns and if you miss one, you get deferred troops. that is what they are there for.

Yes, it would be simple, but it isn't going to happen as only the tiny minority are looking for this rule.

Let's be constructive and help the CD's with improving the rule instead of rehashing the same argument over and over again.
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Re: The Offical Clan Sitting Rules

Postby greenoaks on Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:52 pm

jj3044 wrote:
greenoaks wrote:
JustCallMeStupid wrote:+1 =D> simple is better :)

the simplist thing is no account sitting at all.

play your own turns and if you miss one, you get deferred troops. that is what they are there for.

Yes, it would be simple, but it isn't going to happen as only the tiny minority are looking for this rule.

Let's be constructive and help the CD's with improving the rule instead of rehashing the same argument over and over again.

merely pointing out the simplist thing.

a compromise would be to allow others to take your turn if the clock drops below 1 hour remaining and it isn't a regular thing to allow others to take it for you.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Funkyterrance on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:39 pm

catnipdreams wrote:
agentcom wrote:I don't want to live in that world.

+1


Cmon, you guys, why? I realize you are in the habit of having this ability but I'm still fuzzy about what would be the huge downside? The argument is that it would be the most fair option, which hasn't been contested. The counter has just been: " I wouldn't like it". I mean, wth?

This discussion is looking like most people being in favor of convenience over fairness. Is this the code of the site? Basically I'm hearing a lot of "It doesn't affect me or my clan so why should I care?" and "It's only a small percentage, thus an exaggeration (logic?).". Instead of considering making a small sacrifice like always taking our own turns (most of us do this 99% of the time already right?), everyone looks to be more considering how bothersome that will be. Is it something to do with points? Clan standing? I'm asking honestly here.
Let's just imagine that account sitting were disallowed for a minute. It's already been soundly argued that ultimately there would be no more chance of one clan missing than another and therefore this factor would just come out in the wash. If your clan loses one war over an awol player, is this really going to be a reflection of the prowess of your clan as a whole? No. The only other possible fear is that while some people would miss turns by obeying the rules, others would not due to them account sitting anyway by tricks like changing IP's, etc. Why couldn't you just make people use the same IP's when they turn? Or one of 2? I'm pretty sure this is a possibility but let me guess, this is too inconvenient?
I fell like CC has a history of being pretty intolerant of cheating, both by the administration and by the community. Why change this course for the sake of convenience? Some people found loopholes, fine, cut the loopholes. For those who don't like the spirit of fairness at the cost of slight inconvenience, from what I hear there are other options for playing online Risk-like games.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby stahrgazer on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:42 pm

Bones2484 wrote:Nothing is stopping you from simply missing turns if you can't play them yourself. If you're that casual on a site that's just for fun (not judging you, most of G1 feels this way) then you shouldn't care about a rare missed turn.


I don't particularly care about a rare missed turn, but I do care that a rare missed turn can affect the outcomes for others, I do care that these "official clan sitting rules" are going beyond beyond for "everyone" when the site itself has allowed the occasional sitter and a few rare idiots abused "sitting".
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Re: The Offical Clan Sitting Rules

Postby stahrgazer on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:45 pm

chapcrap wrote: The only great restriction that we previously did not have is the one hour rule for emergencies. That is completely manageable. These rules will do more to protect the integrity of our wars than any damage they will inflict. I promise you that.


This is a huge restriction, it's NOT 'completely manageable' and it's ridiculous for a casual gaming site to have rules about presence that are far more restrictive than most companies that pay people to be there when they say they will.
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Re: The Offical Clan Sitting Rules

Postby HardAttack on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:56 pm

jj3044 wrote:
greenoaks wrote:
JustCallMeStupid wrote:+1 =D> simple is better :)

the simplist thing is no account sitting at all.

play your own turns and if you miss one, you get deferred troops. that is what they are there for.

Yes, it would be simple, but it isn't going to happen as only the tiny minority are looking for this rule.

Let's be constructive and help the CD's with improving the rule instead of rehashing the same argument over and over again.


My opinion is, well i agree this is not going to look anygood without account sitting.


Reason i am writing is, responding to you jj, this site has got nothing to do with what minority or majority asking.
There have always been a 1v1 team play suggestion, for more than 3 years to now, among many names, couple of times at different times similar looking suggestions had been made, among them maybe the most brilliant work came from ahunda, he made a 3-4 day study, he made a poll, and honestly % 90 of ppl clapped, said hats off, said amazing idea, said they are full of behind of the idea, they loved the idea and so...At the end ? Nothing...So, jj, i want to believe in your words, but facts have got nothing to do with if a thing accepted by minority or majority, i dont think it is a matter.


HERE IS WHAT AHUNDA SUGGESTED 3 YEARS AGO, still nothing has done over such a cute and promising idea.
viewtopic.php?f=535&t=109621&p=2458643#p2458643
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Re: The Offical Clan Sitting Rules

Postby stahrgazer on Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:12 pm

HardAttack wrote:
jj3044 wrote:
greenoaks wrote:
JustCallMeStupid wrote:+1 =D> simple is better :)

the simplist thing is no account sitting at all.

play your own turns and if you miss one, you get deferred troops. that is what they are there for.

Yes, it would be simple, but it isn't going to happen as only the tiny minority are looking for this rule.

Let's be constructive and help the CD's with improving the rule instead of rehashing the same argument over and over again.


My opinion is, well i agree this is not going to look anygood without account sitting.


Reason i am writing is, responding to you jj, this site has got nothing to do with what minority or majority asking.
There have always been a 1v1 team play suggestion, for more than 3 years to now, among many names, couple of times at different times similar looking suggestions had been made, among them maybe the most brilliant work came from ahunda, he made a 3-4 day study, he made a poll, and honestly % 90 of ppl clapped, said hats off, said amazing idea, said they are full of behind of the idea, they loved the idea and so...At the end ? Nothing...So, jj, i want to believe in your words, but facts have got nothing to do with if a thing accepted by minority or majority, i dont think it is a matter.


HERE IS WHAT AHUNDA SUGGESTED 3 YEARS AGO, still nothing has done over such a cute and promising idea.
viewtopic.php?f=535&t=109621&p=2458643#p2458643


Interesting idea.

I liked, particularly, this point:
"Repeated counter-arguments here were: The potential of abuse by a few should not be reason enough to reject a game option, that could be enjoyed by many" mainly because this is pretty much the same counter-arguments going on here.

Here's these "official clan sitting rules" that are announced, overkill that will affect many because of the abuse by a few.

Shows an interesting CC management trend, does it not? Punish everyone because a few people abused things, rather than punish the abusers for abusing things and leaving it as it was.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby HardAttack on Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:21 pm

stahrgazer wrote:Interesting idea.

I liked, particularly, this point:
"Repeated counter-arguments here were: The potential of abuse by a few should not be reason enough to reject a game option, that could be enjoyed by many" mainly because this is pretty much the same counter-arguments going on here.

Here's these "official clan sitting rules" that are announced, overkill that will affect many because of the abuse by a few.

Shows an interesting CC management trend, does it not? Punish everyone because a few people abused things, rather than punish the abusers for abusing things and leaving it as it was.


Here is something,
1 minute speed games,
2 minutes speed games....These are new farming grounds say when the speed game with 1 minute is FOR EXAMPLE played in hive map...
TO ME, those who ever play 1-2 minute speed in large and complex maps are farmers...
I am not going to name who it is, someone, i saw him playing a 1 minute speed in hive, 1v1 game, asked him to make a real time, he denied and laid his reason why he denied to be, if he played it real time, there wud be enough time for opponent to think for the move him to make, simple, he didnt want his opponent to have enough time to think about his own move....
Dont you think 1-2-3 minute/s speed games are abused ? So lets move em all together...

i think, word here is spoken here...what are we talking/speaking for i dont know...
Last edited by HardAttack on Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby catnipdreams on Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:06 am

Funkyterrance wrote: Instead of considering making a small sacrifice like always taking our own turns (most of us do this 99% of the time already right?), everyone looks to be more considering how bothersome that will be. Is it something to do with points? Clan standing? I'm asking honestly here.

I can only answer this from my personal point of view, but I feel very strongly, personally. Please do not consider what clan I am in, or any politics involved, and so on. From my heart: I care deeply about my teammates, I care deeply about game strategy, and my joy on CC comes from planning out a turn carefully, and taking into consideration all that I know to make the best turn possible. I have absolutely no desire to cheat on CC, and I even go out of my way to exhibit good sportsmanship by, for instance, observing the 12 hour fog rule, even when it's a casual game where there is no fog rule in place. Some would call me stupid for giving up a tactical advantage by not taking my turn immediately if I go first in a fog game, but, that's the way I like to play. One of the things that destroys my joy of playing is missed turns by my teammates. Suppose I have passed a stack to my teammate who goes next, and that turn is missed? The stack is useless, the game is probably lost, and all my care and attention is wasted. The flip side is, suppose I am the teammate who misses a turn, and I had been forted the stack to use for a critical move? That is a terrible thing to do to my dear teammates! I play each game for the game itself; if that game is part of a clan war, then I hope I have helped in that effort, but my enjoyment comes from the actual playing of each game. Points are irrelevant, although I do enjoy having more, rather than fewer. The only way I could continue to play on CC if sitting were outlawed would be to take a careless, casual approach to a game, maybe spend some time on strategy, maybe not, maybe take my turns, maybe not, and have the same lack of expectations for my teammates. Once I actually invest myself in a game, and put my time and energy into it, I want that game played properly, with no missed turns. Since real life does happen, people do lose internet, people do go away for a romantic weekend where they are seriously NOT going to be logging in to CC, I could simply not play the way I enjoy playing on CC if sitting was not allowed. It's not about minor inconveniences like posting in open chat when you sit for someone, it's about changing the entire CC experience. It is utterly unreasonable to expect my teammates to take 100% of their own turns all the time, and since missed turns are horrible (to me), sitting must be allowed for me to continue to enjoy CC. That is why I am passionate about this issue - not because I want to cheat, not because I am too lazy to type out "catnip in" in open chat, but because this goes to the core of my CC experience. I don't want to stray off topic here, but this continued questioning of allowing any sitting at all bothers me horribly. Have I helped you to understand my point of view? Although I speak only for myself, i do think that others feel similarly. Let's please find a way to allow legitimate sitting that is both simple and easy for sitters, yet has whatever checks and balances that are needed for fair play.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Funkyterrance on Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:12 am

stahrgazer wrote:I don't particularly care about a rare missed turn, but I do care that a rare missed turn can affect the outcomes for others, I do care that these "official clan sitting rules" are going beyond beyond for "everyone" when the site itself has allowed the occasional sitter and a few rare idiots abused "sitting".


This is still a big contradiction. If it's casual gameplay, missed turns shouldn't matter either way. You can't have it both ways, either you take clans seriously or you don't. CC in general may be casual but clans are not, they exemplify the next level of competitiveness, beyond casual.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby stahrgazer on Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:15 am

catnipdreams wrote:
Funkyterrance wrote: Instead of considering making a small sacrifice like always taking our own turns (most of us do this 99% of the time already right?), everyone looks to be more considering how bothersome that will be. Is it something to do with points? Clan standing? I'm asking honestly here.

I can only answer this from my personal point of view, but I feel very strongly, personally. Please do not consider what clan I am in, or any politics involved, and so on. From my heart: I care deeply about my teammates, I care deeply about game strategy, and my joy on CC comes from planning out a turn carefully, and taking into consideration all that I know to make the best turn possible. I have absolutely no desire to cheat on CC, and I even go out of my way to exhibit good sportsmanship by, for instance, observing the 12 hour fog rule, even when it's a casual game where there is no fog rule in place. Some would call me stupid for giving up a tactical advantage by not taking my turn immediately if I go first in a fog game, but, that's the way I like to play. One of the things that destroys my joy of playing is missed turns by my teammates. Suppose I have passed a stack to my teammate who goes next, and that turn is missed? The stack is useless, the game is probably lost, and all my care and attention is wasted. The flip side is, suppose I am the teammate who misses a turn, and I had been forted the stack to use for a critical move? That is a terrible thing to do to my dear teammates! I play each game for the game itself; if that game is part of a clan war, then I hope I have helped in that effort, but my enjoyment comes from the actual playing of each game. Points are irrelevant, although I do enjoy having more, rather than fewer. The only way I could continue to play on CC if sitting were outlawed would be to take a careless, casual approach to a game, maybe spend some time on strategy, maybe not, maybe take my turns, maybe not, and have the same lack of expectations for my teammates. Once I actually invest myself in a game, and put my time and energy into it, I want that game played properly, with no missed turns. Since real life does happen, people do lose internet, people do go away for a romantic weekend where they are seriously NOT going to be logging in to CC, I could simply not play the way I enjoy playing on CC if sitting was not allowed. It's not about minor inconveniences like posting in open chat when you sit for someone, it's about changing the entire CC experience. It is utterly unreasonable to expect my teammates to take 100% of their own turns all the time, and since missed turns are horrible (to me), sitting must be allowed for me to continue to enjoy CC. That is why I am passionate about this issue - not because I want to cheat, not because I am too lazy to type out "catnip in" in open chat, but because this goes to the core of my CC experience. I don't want to stray off topic here, but this continued questioning of allowing any sitting at all bothers me horribly. Have I helped you to understand my point of view? Although I speak only for myself, i do think that others feel similarly. Let's please find a way to allow legitimate sitting that is both simple and easy for sitters, yet has whatever checks and balances that are needed for fair play.


Wonderfully stated, catnip, thank you!

And requiring a sitter to play within one hour or obtain prior permission from various folks is just not simple and easy. Making it a major offense to forget to type your name in one game if you're sitting for multiple games for a player doesn't seem like a reasonable check/balance required for fair play, either.

And, Terrance? You can take a casual game seriously, the "casual" part is that you get to play on your time, at your convenience, as opposed to teaming required in pro sports, where you must play at the time the coaches agree to.

Would it affect your game play if you were REQUIRED to take a turn within a given hour, rather than within a given 24 hour period? "All your turns must be played at 3 am to 4 am your time." Is that inconvenient for you? If you cannot agree to that for your games, why must a sitter have to run the risk that that's what will happen for any turns, just because some few idiots acted like idiots and cheated?
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Nicky15 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:06 am

stahrgazer wrote:
And requiring a sitter to play within one hour or obtain prior permission from various folks is just not simple and easy. Making it a major offense to forget to type your name in one game if you're sitting for multiple games for a player doesn't seem like a reasonable check/balance required for fair play, either.


I wish everyone would read the responses from the Cds and not the ill informed. I can understand how that is difficult, all factual information is getting lost as this thread is soo long :)

Common sense is the number one rule here. I will repeat we are not here to punish the honest legitimate players. These rules give us the framework to punish the people trying to gain an advantage.

I will repeat again if you are sitting for someone and you post in most of the games, but forget a few, this IS NOT an offense. Clearly you are not trying to cheat or gain an advantage, you simply forgot.

If you have been legitimately asked to sit, you carry on as normal. Nothing changes. Just make sure you post in most of the games. Posting once in each game is fine. For example Player A off for ..... (insert time) player B covering. This saves you having to remember to post each turn. When player A returns he or she posts back.

All rules have been made in the framework of existing site rules.

Players are allowed to account-sit for others as long as they are not opponents within the game. It is common courtesy to announce in game chat that another player will take your turn(s) during your absence. Babysitters should only do what is necessary to take the turn(s) and should not interact with the community, start or join new games (except for ongoing tournaments). Furthermore, you should only take another player's turn if they are in danger of missing a turn, not for the purpose of gaining a tactical advantage.


The exceptions are, we have defined the period where you are in danger of missing a turn, and made it a rule to always post.

These rules are not complicated, we will apply common sense when looking at everything, to give those with truly legitimate reasons for breaking the hour rule, the room to do so within reason.

Everyone is reading far too much into this. The CD team is not here to punish honest legitimate players.
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Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:15 pm
Location: England
Medals: 76
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (4) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (4) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (3) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (5) General Achievement (4) Clan Achievement (19) General Contribution (4)

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