The Official Clan Sitting Rules (Old Version)

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Re: The Offical Clan Sitting Rules

Postby stahrgazer on Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:08 pm

Evil Semp wrote:
stahrgazer wrote:
Bones2484 wrote:
stahrgazer wrote:
chapcrap wrote: The only great restriction that we previously did not have is the one hour rule for emergencies. That is completely manageable. These rules will do more to protect the integrity of our wars than any damage they will inflict. I promise you that.


This is a huge restriction, it's NOT 'completely manageable' and it's ridiculous for a casual gaming site to have rules about presence that are far more restrictive than most companies that pay people to be there when they say they will.


How is this ridiculous? Are you sure you aren't misinterpreting the rule? If you KNOW someone is out, you can take their turn at anytime. The rule you are freaking out about is when you DO NOT KNOW someone is out. In that case, you need to wait until the final hour.

I fail to see how that is a problem at all. That's nicer than the rule I would have suggested.


Many's the time I log in to find a pm, "Take my turns for me tonight, please."

It means I did NOT know in advance the person would be out to make the arrangements these rules require, and if the person is in a game that's just starting, according to these rules we'd be in potential violation and whatever hoops we'd have to jump through to "prove" legitimate sitting because I'm not going to wait until zero-hour to take a turn. Rarely, but occasionally I've had to make a similar request.


You may have read the rules but you don't seem to understand them.

If you receive a PM you can take their turns right then. You don't have to wait for the final hour. The final hour only comes in if HAVE NOT BEEN IN CONTACT with the person who's turn you are going to sit.


stahrgazer wrote:And the reason we would potentially be questioned under these new rules is because according to these rules, you have to have pre-permission to take a turn other than zero-hour at the start of a game.


If you received a PM you have pre-premission to take the turns.


So how about, don't take turns without pre-permission and forget the hours thing. Oh, wait, that's sort of implied in the site rules already, isn't it?

scottp wrote:This makes perfect sense to you, but to me it just means anyone who wants to take 4 hours worth of turns just needs to claim that they received a text message from player X. Hard to prove, easy to fake after the fact. So, it's an unenforceable rule that relies on players' honesty to be effective. If someone was abusing the system to require these rules, what's to make one think they'll play fair now?


Exactly! It just adds a potential hassle to those of us who're playing fair and honestly regardless which hour the clock states.
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Re: The Offical Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Evil Semp on Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:59 pm

stahrgazer wrote:So how about, don't take turns without pre-permission and forget the hours thing. Oh, wait, that's sort of implied in the site rules already, isn't it?


I like that. The way I read what you said is if you don't have permission you can't take the turn at all. That would make it easier. It also eliminates you having to stay up until 3 in the morning to take someones turn.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby TheMissionary on Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:39 pm

However, there are those situations where they are just not able to contact you. What do I do then, pass their password along to a player in each time zone? That seems more unethical than taking the turns myself.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby chemefreak on Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:17 pm

I just love the clan world. 2 years as a CD and I am still surprised at how certain players can argue even the most simple and obvious point!
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Re: The Offical Clan Sitting Rules

Postby stahrgazer on Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:58 am

Evil Semp wrote:
stahrgazer wrote:So how about, don't take turns without pre-permission and forget the hours thing. Oh, wait, that's sort of implied in the site rules already, isn't it?


I like that. The way I read what you said is if you don't have permission you can't take the turn at all. That would make it easier. It also eliminates you having to stay up until 3 in the morning to take someones turn.


Yes. I believe that the current site rules imply that you don't take turns without permission, because if you're taking turns without permission, you're not sitting, you're account sharing, and if you have a main account and one you share, you're sort of a multi which is against the rules.

The only problem with it is, occasionally you'll get someone who says, "I'm not sure if I'll be able to be on tonight/this weekend," so gives you permission to take the turns just in case. This is where, if it happens too often, it falls into the realm of abuse.
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Re: The Offical Clan Sitting Rules

Postby greenoaks on Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:14 am

stahrgazer wrote:The only problem with it is, occasionally you'll get someone who says, "I'm not sure if I'll be able to be on tonight/this weekend," so gives you permission to take the turns just in case. This is where, if it happens too often, it falls into the realm of abuse.

i think this is what they are trying to warn us against doing by saying if it happens once no big deal but if they see a pattern ..........
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Re: The Offical Clan Sitting Rules

Postby stahrgazer on Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:38 pm

greenoaks wrote:
stahrgazer wrote:The only problem with it is, occasionally you'll get someone who says, "I'm not sure if I'll be able to be on tonight/this weekend," so gives you permission to take the turns just in case. This is where, if it happens too often, it falls into the realm of abuse.

i think this is what they are trying to warn us against doing by saying if it happens once no big deal but if they see a pattern ..........


Well, the existing site rules already implied that, so what's all this bogus nonsense here?
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby chemefreak on Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:19 pm

stahrgazer wrote:Well, the existing site rules already implied that, so what's all this bogus nonsense here?


We will see how bogus they feel when they are enforced! The rules are set. They were thoughtfully crafted by the CDs and clan leaders. Now lets just focus on having fun!
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby eddie2 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:31 pm

stahr this is where i got lost in it. the rules are literally site rules nickys own words from a post on page 23.

All rules have been made in the framework of existing site rules.

Players are allowed to account-sit for others as long as they are not opponents within the game. It is common courtesy to announce in game chat that another player will take your turn(s) during your absence. Babysitters should only do what is necessary to take the turn(s) and should not interact with the community, start or join new games (except for ongoing tournaments). Furthermore, you should only take another player's turn if they are in danger of missing a turn, not for the purpose of gaining a tactical advantage.


the only thing i was puzzled with was this from the nickys op.

Punishments

Anyone caught breaking these rules will be subject to penalties as determined at the sole discretion of the CD Team. Penalties may include loss of privileges, loss of medals, forfeiture of games, and any other punishment the CD Team deems appropriate.The CD team will take a common sense approach when ruling on each individual case.


then evil semp making this comment.
eddie
I think I can speak for C&A. If a site rule is broken and it is brought to our attention it will NOT BE IGNORED. These new clan rules only pertain to account sitting.


these comments above contradicted each other since the new clan rules will mean you have breached a site rule,(by this i mean new clan rules are a more defined version of site rules, So if you breach a clan sitting rule you have breached a stricter version of a site rule)but the post from the clan team says only clan mods will be issuing punishments.But evil has said this is not the case.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby eddie2 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:50 pm

now i have just read this post...

chemefreak wrote:
stahrgazer wrote:Well, the existing site rules already implied that, so what's all this bogus nonsense here?


We will see how bogus they feel when they are enforced! The rules are set. They were thoughtfully crafted by the CDs and clan leaders. Now lets just focus on having fun!


but from the op???
We have been discussing how best to draft these rules over the last three months. We have used a consultation group to gain different perspectives. And have been in consultation with admin. It was very difficult to get a list of rules that covered every possibility whilst remaining simple and easy to follow.


this does not mention clan leaders how were these leaders defined as to which ones would and which ones would not take part in discussions, since i have seen posts from nearly all clans can we not ask why them leaders have not told there clans they were involved in the drafting of this...

if admin was involved can we not also ask why then would they allow a final draft saying clan mods have full control of punishments for players breaching sitting rules(which would also breach some site rules.) but did not tell c and a mods this was happening or visa versa tell clan mods they could not happen....

to me this all looks like something my 10 year old daughter could of put together i 5 mins(this is not meant in any offense to any member) and has not been talked about properly ironing out any wrinkles.

fair enough i am first to admit rules are needed but they need to be done properly and talked about then defined in the rules.... i got a post to say you could post in clan war threads instead of individual games from a clan mod but this has not been added to that part of the rules. meaning i have breached the rules as they stand just now.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby chemefreak on Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:57 pm

The rules will be in conjunction with site rules. We even have an account sitting hunter now 8-) ES's post is not out of line with anything we have talked about. How it will all work together will be seen in time.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Evil Semp on Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:37 pm

eddie2 wrote:
Punishments

Anyone caught breaking these rules will be subject to penalties as determined at the sole discretion of the CD Team. Penalties may include loss of privileges, loss of medals, forfeiture of games, and any other punishment the CD Team deems appropriate.The CD team will take a common sense approach when ruling on each individual case.


then evil semp making this comment.
eddie
I think I can speak for C&A. If a site rule is broken and it is brought to our attention it will NOT BE IGNORED. These new clan rules only pertain to account sitting.


these comments above contradicted each other since the new clan rules will mean you have breached a site rule,(by this i mean new clan rules are a more defined version of site rules, So if you breach a clan sitting rule you have breached a stricter version of a site rule)but the post from the clan team says only clan mods will be issuing punishments.But evil has said this is not the case.


No contradiction eddie. If you break the one hour rule that will not be punished by C&A but will be handled by the CD's.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby HardAttack on Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:37 pm

What about we PM to clan directors, they sit for all in danger missing turns ?
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby HardAttack on Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:43 pm

This 1st turn permission thing, the most hilarious, weird, inferior, smelly, rotten idea i have ever heard...
My appologizes, i dont think i will need it but, you clan directors, every single day, you are making clan world one step ahead unberable...You well may pretty expect soon, there will be clan directors and CLA 4-5 folks in it mostly CDs but nothing more left...Hey you, enjoy huh ?

This is not any improvement, this is dungeon life, middle even dark age mentalism, funny and sad.

One smart fella comes around, if turn is 1st turn do this , then do that then jump 2 steps ahead, 15 push ups then take the turn.
If it is turn 2, go down to the town, buy me 2 cupcakes then come back to take ur turn.
What are we doin in turn 3-4-5 and so ?
Is there a turn limit ?
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby HardAttack on Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:47 pm

Clan directors,

you are given rights but not weed to come with some wise calls, but not mock/bull around/go insane ...
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby stahrgazer on Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:50 pm

chemefreak wrote:We will see how bogus they feel when they are enforced!


There it is, the power trip these rules give them. Hoo Rah!

Without fixing, at all, the real problem these stemmed from: someone SYSTEMATICALLY taking other players' turns.

And since it just hassles legit players without fixing the real problem AT ALL, they weren't "thoughtful" at all, cheme.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby HardAttack on Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:55 pm

Are you clan directors or clan dictators ?
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby chemefreak on Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:57 pm

All of our favorites are showing up! Glad to see you all :lol:
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby HardAttack on Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:00 pm

chemefreak wrote:All of our favorites are showing up! Glad to see you all :lol:


You are missing it bud,
it s not the question if we show up,
question here is what you put here as your show i guess.


pity, really pity...
i always used to believe that all you 4, to be much more smarter, wiser and cooler...
there is nothing funny in it, you should be sad IMO...

whatever,
just sad,
you keep laughin bro..
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby eddie2 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:13 am

Evil Semp wrote:
eddie2 wrote:
Punishments

Anyone caught breaking these rules will be subject to penalties as determined at the sole discretion of the CD Team. Penalties may include loss of privileges, loss of medals, forfeiture of games, and any other punishment the CD Team deems appropriate.The CD team will take a common sense approach when ruling on each individual case.


then evil semp making this comment.
eddie
I think I can speak for C&A. If a site rule is broken and it is brought to our attention it will NOT BE IGNORED. These new clan rules only pertain to account sitting.


these comments above contradicted each other since the new clan rules will mean you have breached a site rule,(by this i mean new clan rules are a more defined version of site rules, So if you breach a clan sitting rule you have breached a stricter version of a site rule)but the post from the clan team says only clan mods will be issuing punishments.But evil has said this is not the case.


No contradiction eddie. If you break the one hour rule that will not be punished by C&A but will be handled by the CD's.


lol evil this is exactly what i mean the 1 hour rule is just the in danger of missing a turn site rule but has been given a 1 hour limit which you said earlier in he thread would not be overlooked by c and a mods. you are now changing your earlier comment and this makes it look even more like these rules were not planned and talked about like stated.

i'll explain this more.. if i notice someone taking turns with 6 hours on the clock just because that player has went mia or missed a previous shot, this is a breach of site rules which c and a have warned noted for before. because you stated it will not be ignored if the person opens a c and a report you will deal with it there. then clan mods will see it and issue a 2nd punishment because they will have to issue one in case they punish someone who takes turns with like 2 or 1 and a half hours left on the clock because this is breaching the clan rules but not the site rules.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Funkyterrance on Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:44 am

chemefreak wrote: We even have an account sitting hunter now 8-)


That's frigging awesome.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby HardAttack on Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:18 am

1.) A lot of rumours going on around, no clear information but gossips on the air...
One told me last night that, if it is 1st turn of a game, no matter it is emergency sitting, in the last hour an emergency sitter needs to contact with a CD for permission ? Or, if emergency sitter well can cover the turn, no matter the turn is 1st turn or not in the last hour without permission from a CD ?

2.) I am reading evil semp lines,

You may have read the rules but you don't seem to understand them.

Evil Semp wrote:If you receive a PM you can take their turns right then. You don't have to wait for the final hour. The final hour only comes in if HAVE NOT BEEN IN CONTACT with the person who's turn you are going to sit.


Evil, or CD, what is it ? Please and if you can expand this ? Who is PMing to who ? Why and with that PM what sitter is going to do ?
Is the sitter going to be asked to forward this PM to a CD for permission ?

I request please a mod to answer this my above question, but not anyone else, since i am asking an official answer ...

Thanks.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Squirly on Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:28 am

Nicky15 wrote:
These rules will come into force Monday after we have had the chance to pm all clan leaders and make sure everyone is aware.

Thanks

The CD team.


so when do these rules come into effect?
I haven't received any pm's from any of you. My co leaders haven't either.
Maybe you've only sent pms to the clans that have caused the need for all these additional rules?
that would actually make sense.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Nicky15 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:14 am

Squirly wrote:
Nicky15 wrote:
These rules will come into force Monday after we have had the chance to pm all clan leaders and make sure everyone is aware.

Thanks

The CD team.


so when do these rules come into effect?
I haven't received any pm's from any of you. My co leaders haven't either.
Maybe you've only sent pms to the clans that have caused the need for all these additional rules?
that would actually make sense.


OK let me look into that.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Nicky15 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:45 am

Two years as a Clan director. I am sure we are all accustomed to Chemes sense of humour... No ?

Guys as of now these are the rules. The gossip and hearsay. Ignore.

These rules are simple. All we did was define existing site policy. And make it mandatory to post. We cannot legislate for every given eventuality so that's why the common sense thing is there. If you break a site rule, C&A will punish you as always. For example. Account sharing etc. If you break a clan rule For example Not posting in a game. CD will deal with that. All clan sitting abuse will be dealt with as a team however, multi hunters and Cd having input. In some cases Admin may be involved.

We are not Clan Dictators. If we were we would be black and white and straight down the line. Say its an hour whatever the circumstances. But we wont. We will use common sense.

May I remind everyone, that account sharing has always been against site policy. As was going in and out of others accounts at will. So basically all we have done is define the period of when a turn is actually in danger of being missed, and made it mandatory to post. The hour rule is being discussed with Clan reps and whatever the majority decide in regards to that will determine if that is changed or not.

The honest player who always posts will be fine !

Can we please stop the drama, and give these rules a chance to settle. In the future you can judge us on how we deal with reports and you will see we are fair. If we aren't then you can be as dramatic as you wish.
But please lets stop creating a fuss about all the what ifs and maybes and see how this goes 1st.

If you have been genuinely asked to sit you can. If a player has not contacted you then you can not know they will miss their turns, they may have every intention of taking them. Give them the chance to. No one has ever had the right to just take turns just in case.

If you are constantly being asked to sit for someone the very 1st thing we will do is talk to you about it. And advise you both what to do.

In regards to punishments. The only thing you are earning a straight infraction for is not posting in a game. (except for missing a few during a prearranged sit) And obviously breaking site rules.

In regards to everything else, the 1st thing we will do is talk about it with you. No one who is honest and truthful about their sitting is getting booted off CC.
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