The Official Clan Sitting Rules (Old Version)

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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby betiko on Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:39 am

TheJonah wrote:
BGtheBrain wrote:
laughingcavalier wrote:
betiko wrote:
One other thing (sorry I haven't read everything so don't know if this has been mentioned yet). But I know that often clan leaders get on clanmates accounts to "stalk" on fog games where their clan is involved to see how it's going. I think it's perfectly normal, wouldn't a general want to know the situation of his troops on each battlefield? If entering teammate's accounts to check out fog games seems perfectly normal to me, and if it becomes forbidden people can just send each other screenshots or share screen via skype or whatever. This is not account sharing. Otherwise, how about creating an option on CC to allow certain users not involved in a game to see what you see on a fog game?


Nobody should be doing this. You should only go on another's account to cover a turn they might miss. It is NOT OK for a clan leader to be checking out games this way whether or not they offer advice. That is nothing to do with the new clan rules, that is the site rule.

agreed


Seconded


Well this is bullcrap in my opinion. a clan is a team and I don't see how it would be cheating that other clan members know what is happening behind the fog in games they are not in. Or is it even prohibited to talk between clan members not in a game of how a fog game is going?
And totally agree with LMS. 48H turns, are you serious? so in a 4 player game when someone misses (because you are still aloud to take the turn before the last hour in case of absence) how many month should every game last? let's make it hive trench no spoils to add some fun!
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby crazy4catnip on Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:46 am

I still need to read the rules more thoroughly (and may have more comments), but the first thing that comes to mind is that only "vacation" and "emergencies" are listed. There are other legitimate situations that need to be covered, such as business trips and moving to a new residence. I would characterize these situations as emergencies (like a computer failure), and they're not vacation either.

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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby jetsetwilly on Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:49 am

crazy4catnip wrote:I still need to read the rules more thoroughly (and may have more comments), but the first thing that comes to mind is that only "vacation" and "emergencies" are listed. There are other legitimate situations that need to be covered, such as business trips and moving to a new residence. I would characterize these situations as emergencies (like a computer failure), and they're not vacation either.

-- crazy4catnip


Business trips and moving house would definitely fall into a valid "vacation" situation. Any reasonable legitimate situation is a perfectly valid reason to have a sitter.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby shoop76 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:51 am

betiko wrote:
TheJonah wrote:
BGtheBrain wrote:
laughingcavalier wrote:
betiko wrote:
One other thing (sorry I haven't read everything so don't know if this has been mentioned yet). But I know that often clan leaders get on clanmates accounts to "stalk" on fog games where their clan is involved to see how it's going. I think it's perfectly normal, wouldn't a general want to know the situation of his troops on each battlefield? If entering teammate's accounts to check out fog games seems perfectly normal to me, and if it becomes forbidden people can just send each other screenshots or share screen via skype or whatever. This is not account sharing. Otherwise, how about creating an option on CC to allow certain users not involved in a game to see what you see on a fog game?


Nobody should be doing this. You should only go on another's account to cover a turn they might miss. It is NOT OK for a clan leader to be checking out games this way whether or not they offer advice. That is nothing to do with the new clan rules, that is the site rule.

agreed


Seconded


Well this is bullcrap in my opinion. a clan is a team and I don't see how it would be cheating that other clan members know what is happening behind the fog in games they are not in. Or is it even prohibited to talk between clan members not in a game of how a fog game is going?
And totally agree with LMS. 48H turns, are you serious? so in a 4 player game when someone misses (because you are still aloud to take the turn before the last hour in case of absence) how many month should every game last? let's make it hive trench no spoils to add some fun!


Yes I agree that a clan is a team. However, teams are made up of individuals and each should play their own game. Otherwise why not have clans of 4 people. If you don't like the way a certain member plays then maybe he should not be in your clan. If a game is fog those settings were made for a reason, so the other team and others not playing in the game can not see the position of the other team.

Maybe Dwight can ask Kobe to shoot his free throws, since their on the same team.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby IcePack on Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:53 am

Yeah I agree and would love to hear a CD opinion. As clan leader I ask my member how games are going or get sent a screen shot. I've NEVER thought logging in to check game statuses was EVER an acceptable practise.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby shoop76 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:54 am

I guess what it comes down to as that in many clans people ask their better players to look at the games and ask for strategies.

the question is, is this allowed? and if not can it be stopped?
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby jetsetwilly on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:00 am

shoop76 wrote:I guess what it comes down to as that in many clans people ask their better players to look at the games and ask for strategies.

the question is, is this allowed? and if not can it be stopped?


It seems pretty clear to me that this wasn't clear at all before ! However rule 5 should leave no doubt that this is not an acceptable practice from here on in.

5. You must not be in another persons account for any reason, other than to cover turns while that person is on vacation


Abuse of this would potentially spotted by the hunters.

Of course players will ask clan mates for advice on a map and I guess some people might post up screen shots on their internal forum but logging into someone else's account for the purposes of helping with that turn is not acceptable.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby shoop76 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:03 am

jetsetwilly wrote:
shoop76 wrote:I guess what it comes down to as that in many clans people ask their better players to look at the games and ask for strategies.

the question is, is this allowed? and if not can it be stopped?


It seems pretty clear to me that this wasn't clear at all before ! However rule 5 should leave no doubt that this is not an acceptable practice from here on in.

5. You must not be in another persons account for any reason, other than to cover turns while that person is on vacation


Abuse of this would potentially spotted by the hunters.

Of course players will ask clan mates for advice on a map and I guess some people might post up screen shots on their internal forum but logging into someone else's account for the purposes of helping with that turn is not acceptable.


But asking for advice on a game is. I don't have a problem either way, but just want it to be clear.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby freakns on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:04 am

laughingcavalier wrote:
betiko wrote:
One other thing (sorry I haven't read everything so don't know if this has been mentioned yet). But I know that often clan leaders get on clanmates accounts to "stalk" on fog games where their clan is involved to see how it's going. I think it's perfectly normal, wouldn't a general want to know the situation of his troops on each battlefield? If entering teammate's accounts to check out fog games seems perfectly normal to me, and if it becomes forbidden people can just send each other screenshots or share screen via skype or whatever. This is not account sharing. Otherwise, how about creating an option on CC to allow certain users not involved in a game to see what you see on a fog game?


Nobody should be doing this. You should only go on another's account to cover a turn they might miss. It is NOT OK for a clan leader to be checking out games this way whether or not they offer advice. That is nothing to do with the new clan rules, that is the site rule.

why so? i have been doing this since i have joined site. i like to know what is going on, and i leave without making any move or comment. how is this different from omiljeni, finsfleet and me sitting at omiljenis home and watching the map together in half time of football game? my point is, if this is forbidden, how will you make sure i dont see map just looking at it from omiljeni/fins computer? and the three of us do see each other every sunday to watch football, so if we are doing that, how can i be sure you arent doing the same thing with someone from your clan?

also, 1 hour rule is stupid beyond reason. our whole clan(with exception of milen83 who lives between new york and belgrade) live in same time zone. most of our moves start ticking during night(you living in England may be well aware of this). so lets say someone from my clan gets an emergency and his move is due to expire in 4AM CET(which is quite often). if we are strict to 1hour rule, someone need to be awake in 3AM to take a move? how stupid is that?

anyhow, i will leave the rest of my concerns for CD and friends, because these rules are not going to help anyone, they will more likely create additional confusion.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby shoop76 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:06 am

I guess my point is if its ok to get strategies from other members by other means, why does it really matter if someone logs onto your account or even takes the turns. A player could just sit there and tell the other player exactly what to do. What is the difference?
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby BGtheBrain on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:07 am

Being on another player's account for ANY reasons other than taking turns when they are in danger of missing a turn, or posting to necessary Tournament or Clan related public forum topics, is not allowed. Abuse of this privilege can be considered account sharing and could result in a Bust for both accounts.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby L M S on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:08 am

Why is everyone hung up on the 1 hr thing?
dumb.
What about the OTHER 23?
Take your own turns for crying out loud.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby freakns on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:12 am

jetsetwilly wrote:It seems pretty clear to me that this wasn't clear at all before ! However rule 5 should leave no doubt that this is not an acceptable practice from here on in.

and how do you plan to stop me from doing this(i havent done this just to be clear)?

i have phone numbers and e mails of some of my clan mates, and i had them before i have join CC. i am RL friend with many of them too, so if i want to do this, i will, and there is no rule that will stop me from doing it.

and if some of the rules are going to be applied based on trust(as you mentioned), then why having rules at all?!
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby freakns on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:18 am

BGtheBrain wrote:
Being on another player's account for ANY reasons other than taking turns when they are in danger of missing a turn, or posting to necessary Tournament or Clan related public forum topics, is not allowed. Abuse of this privilege can be considered account sharing and could result in a Bust for both accounts.

but we all do this! all top clans are doing this! and its not going to stop. and what is the worse thing, me logging into someones acc and looking at map, or someone taking snap posting at internal forum and asking for advice?!

i am on this site because of clans and clan wars. i dont care about points, tournaments, titles, medals, etc, etc... i like to play a game or two for fun, but the only games that really interest me are clan games. and i want to be able to see what is going on in clan games im not in, and you are telling me its abuse of rules? just to look at the game?! thats beyond stupid.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby jetsetwilly on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:22 am

I refer you back to the previous point from BGtheBrain which predates all of this.

"Being on another player's account for ANY reasons other than taking turns when they are in danger of missing a turn, or posting to necessary Tournament or Clan related public forum topics, is not allowed. Abuse of this privilege can be considered account sharing and could result in a Bust for both accounts"

If all the top clans are doing it then they certainly won't be in future unless they want to risk being busted.
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Re: The Offical Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Foxglove on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:28 am

Foxglove wrote:
Nicky15 wrote:No one should be put in for a game unless they can take the vast majority of their turns. Agreements still can be made between clans in regards to absences, both clans must agree. These games must not include the unlimited setting, or any other setting where an advantage could potentially be had.


Can you please explain what the unlimited setting has to do with anything described above?


I think my question might have been missed, as it hasn't been addressed yet.

Does this mean that players are not allowed to sit for each other in games with the unlimited fort setting?

If so, I think it's only fair and reasonable to include any other setting at which a more skilled player can outplay a less skilled player: escalating spoils, adjacent forts, foggy games, etc. Late game escalating turns require as much skill as early game unlimited fort turns - the difference is that far fewer clans and players have focused on developing their unlimited fort game strategies.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby betiko on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:32 am

freakns wrote:
jetsetwilly wrote:It seems pretty clear to me that this wasn't clear at all before ! However rule 5 should leave no doubt that this is not an acceptable practice from here on in.

and how do you plan to stop me from doing this(i havent done this just to be clear)?

i have phone numbers and e mails of some of my clan mates, and i had them before i have join CC. i am RL friend with many of them too, so if i want to do this, i will, and there is no rule that will stop me from doing it.

and if some of the rules are going to be applied based on trust(as you mentioned), then why having rules at all?!


+1. all this is ridiculous.

As I said, this is about clan A vs clan B. If you make such rules for the CC4 or whatever tournament it's normal so everyone is under the same rules. But in a war between 2 clans, if both teams agree on this kind of terms I don't see how it's external people's fucking problem. All terms should be agreed between 2 clans beforehand, the real cheating is if someone does not do what he agreed on.

Anyway, there is no way you can stop people from the same clan to know what is going on behind fog and to discuss opinions on what to do in fog or no fog games. In many clans the members don't know each other only by game chat or private forum. Lol, we even have a rl couple in our clan that lives together. Should it be prohibited to be in the same clan as your girfriend/boyfriend?
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby BGtheBrain on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:36 am

freakns wrote:
BGtheBrain wrote:
Being on another player's account for ANY reasons other than taking turns when they are in danger of missing a turn, or posting to necessary Tournament or Clan related public forum topics, is not allowed. Abuse of this privilege can be considered account sharing and could result in a Bust for both accounts.

but we all do this! all top clans are doing this! and its not going to stop. and what is the worse thing, me logging into someones acc and looking at map, or someone taking snap posting at internal forum and asking for advice?!

i am on this site because of clans and clan wars. i dont care about points, tournaments, titles, medals, etc, etc... i like to play a game or two for fun, but the only games that really interest me are clan games. and i want to be able to see what is going on in clan games im not in, and you are telling me its abuse of rules? just to look at the game?! thats beyond stupid.


The issue is logging in to someone elses account for something other than taking a turn.

If they want to take a SS and post it in the forum, no one is telling you not to do that (from what I understand)

You are not entitled to see what is going on under the fog of games you are not involved in, clan or otherwise.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby jetsetwilly on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:38 am

betiko wrote:
freakns wrote:
jetsetwilly wrote:It seems pretty clear to me that this wasn't clear at all before ! However rule 5 should leave no doubt that this is not an acceptable practice from here on in.

and how do you plan to stop me from doing this(i havent done this just to be clear)?

i have phone numbers and e mails of some of my clan mates, and i had them before i have join CC. i am RL friend with many of them too, so if i want to do this, i will, and there is no rule that will stop me from doing it.

and if some of the rules are going to be applied based on trust(as you mentioned), then why having rules at all?!


+1. all this is ridiculous.

As I said, this is about clan A vs clan B. If you make such rules for the CC4 or whatever tournament it's normal so everyone is under the same rules. But in a war between 2 clans, if both teams agree on this kind of terms I don't see how it's external people's fucking problem. All terms should be agreed between 2 clans beforehand, the real cheating is if someone does not do what he agreed on.

Anyway, there is no way you can stop people from the same clan to know what is going on behind fog and to discuss opinions on what to do in fog or no fog games. In many clans the members don't know each other only by game chat or private forum. Lol, we even have a rl couple in our clan that lives together. Should it be prohibited to be in the same clan as your girfriend/boyfriend?


If you want to discuss turns over a phone, share a screen in a house, pop around to your friend's house, post a screen shot in a forum, then clearly we aren't here to police that and you can do as you wish. Some people might not agree that it's right (I'm not one of them) but of course there's nothing to stop you doing this.

This rule is specifically around logging into someone else's account.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Lindax on Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:01 pm

jetsetwilly wrote:I refer you back to the previous point from BGtheBrain which predates all of this.

"Being on another player's account for ANY reasons other than taking turns when they are in danger of missing a turn, or posting to necessary Tournament or Clan related public forum topics, is not allowed. Abuse of this privilege can be considered account sharing and could result in a Bust for both accounts"

If all the top clans are doing it then they certainly won't be in future unless they want to risk being busted.


=D>

Play your own games and take your own turns. If you can't do that you shouldn't be in a clan war and/or tournament.

Lx
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby freakns on Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:24 pm

Lindax wrote:
jetsetwilly wrote:I refer you back to the previous point from BGtheBrain which predates all of this.

"Being on another player's account for ANY reasons other than taking turns when they are in danger of missing a turn, or posting to necessary Tournament or Clan related public forum topics, is not allowed. Abuse of this privilege can be considered account sharing and could result in a Bust for both accounts"

If all the top clans are doing it then they certainly won't be in future unless they want to risk being busted.


=D>

Play your own games and take your own turns. If you can't do that you shouldn't be in a clan war and/or tournament.

Lx

so if you are interested to see how clan games are going then you shouldnt be in the clan? good point pancake, great one actually.
btw has anyone ever played a move for you, or have you ever played a move for someone?
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby IcePack on Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:31 pm

Ask your partners or get a screen shot if you want to know how the games going. Simple.
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12:11:16 ‹Swifte› good thing we have the beta program to weed all these problems out
12:15:00 * IcePack joins Social
12:15:35 ‹Swifte› well that's just bad timing
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Bones2484 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:34 pm

freakns and betiko: Team CC has made it very clear that you should not have someone else's permanent password and thus you should already have not been doing what you are arguing for. This is not new and is not changing with these rules. That has been a site rule for awhile now. As has been mentioned, there are perfectly legal workarounds that require a bit more effort on the part of the actual players in the game (as it should be).
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Lindax on Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:41 pm

freakns wrote:btw has anyone ever played a move for you, or have you ever played a move for someone?


No, never.

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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby denominator on Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:06 pm

Personally, I don't see what the big deal is here. Most clans I have interacted with have all followed these rules already, with the possible exception of the new 1-hour rule. It really comes down to one thing - only you should be taking your turns.

My one issue is that this rule:

Nicky15 wrote:2, Emergency cover may only be given if the person really is in danger of missing a turn. Therefore a turn can only be covered if there is an hour or less left on the clock. But steps must be taken to contact the player before hand.


contradicts this rule:

Nicky15 wrote:5, You must also not give permission for anyone to wander in and out of your account at their will. Take care of your account. What happens with it is your responsibility.


How are we expected to cover a clanmate's turn in emergency situations (following the 1-hour rule) if we do not know their password ahead of time?

Also, it seems to me that players are taking the word "vacation" too literally. I believe that "vacation" is a stand-in word for "excusable absence from the site for a foreseeable period of time".
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