The BG Coaches Poll [archive]

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The BG Coaches Poll [archive]

Postby BGtheBrain on Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:38 am

I am going to assemble a group of people who will be used to vote for something similar to a coaches poll.

This has been done before where each clan had a vote and ranked every clan in order from 1 to however many clans we had. In this poll, there will not be reps from every clan.

Im looking for a diverse group of people who are very in tune with the clan world who will be willing to submit a ranking of the top 25 clans (exact # of clans determined later)

Format - In the works
Each person will rank the clans via pm.
Clans will be awarded points depending on what they are ranked (Rank 1 means 25 points... Rank 25 means 1 point)
I will be removing the 2 highest and 2 lowest rankings received by any clan (Not being ranked counts as a 0 ranking)
1 Rep per clan

More to come later.

If interested in this please pm me. I will be pretty selective on who is allowed to participate in the rankings.

I figured its worth a shot.


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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby crazy4catnip on Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:32 pm

I like the idea. But I don't have enough experience with the top clans (or even bother to follow how they are doing) to provide a decent ranking, so I'm not a good candidate to be a voter.

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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby Bruceswar on Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:22 pm

Add me in please. :)
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby angola on Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:27 pm

I'm willing to represent AOC.
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby BGtheBrain on Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:28 pm

updated to add Bruce and angola.
Up to 6 people so far.
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby peanutsdad on Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:31 pm

You can ad me as the Mythology representative.
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby jefjef on Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:54 pm

Sure. Why not. :)
This post was made by jefjef who should be on your ignore list.
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby t4mcr53s2 on Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:31 pm

i'll rep Aok but as a new clan I'm inexperienced for your purpose this year
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby freakns on Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:41 pm

i can go as Otpisani representative...

although, i think you will need to change a format a bit. its common knowledge that every clan(expect maybe TOFU cause Dako is dying of jealousy when he sees all the sexiness in our clan) would vote Otpisani as top clan, so if you remove that we would finish with 0 points(top2 in every clan voting+0 points from TOFU as they wouldnt have us on their list)
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby swimmerdude99 on Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:51 pm

I would think you might contact Leehar. he is very in tune with the ongoings.
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby Chariot of Fire on Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:50 pm

Hi BG, thanks for the PM. Yeah sure, feel free to add me as the TOFU rep.

It will be quite a bit of work to do for each rep (if researched properly) so do you mind me asking what purpose it will serve, given that there's already the widely accepted F400 ranking table? Cheers.
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby ViperOverLord on Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:10 pm

If you send me a pm wanting a vote. I'll vote for Man D. (Manifest Destiny).
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby ScaryTeded on Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:02 pm

Jimmy V Will represent the LOTZ in this matter as he is more in tune with these matters.
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby BGtheBrain on Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:46 am

Pretty good response rate so far.

I do want to reiterate that signing up is not guaranteeing a voting spot. One of the biggest challenge will be to have informed voters who will be capable of judging without just guessing or copying/pasting the f400. For people who are interested, but not up to speed, I plan on offering some guidance and probably assembling a sort of "voters guide" with important links and such.

@COF - I think that the perception of clans will be slightly different than the statistical ranking. This is not a system looking to compete with and especially not to replace the f400, rather to compliment it. Conquer Club is full of opinionated people and with something as important as clans, why not find a way for these opinions to be pulled together and laid out in a clean manner? The thing I am most excited to see, is the impact of a war amongst the top clan. (not using specifics) but lets say 1 plays 4 and 4 beats 1 pretty handily. I expect this to cause a shake up in this poll more drastic than in the f400.
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby eddie2 on Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:19 am

hummm thanks for the invite bg. but this will just be a popularity vote system. some examples would be

the pack afos empire tsm...

the pack pissed several clans off (not aka) so these clans would put them at the bottom of these 4 clans on there ranking (you could say they wouldn't but they would...) and even put lower ranked clans higher up going by how they like there members.

same as things like the f400 all these done was stuffed up the clan world before these ranking systems you could challenge any clan and they would accept if there rooster wasnt 2 busy... now it is all about how far down the ranking system they would end up... lets just bin all this crap play your wars cups and enjoy your time playing games...


i think a better idea would be to have a ranking system on how the clan behaves during a war... with marks for 2 list some

game play
organization
thread attitude
game chat...
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby Swifte on Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:30 am

eddie2 wrote:the pack pissed several clans off (not aka) so these clans would put them at the bottom of these 4 clans on there ranking (you could say they wouldn't but they would...) and even put lower ranked clans higher up going by how they like there members.


well, if we see behavior like that, it would certainly indicate that it is not a very effective ranking. won't know for sure until we get responses and see though. I'd be surprised and disappointed to see voting like that from anyone.
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby Leehar on Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:09 pm

Swifte wrote:
eddie2 wrote:the pack pissed several clans off (not aka) so these clans would put them at the bottom of these 4 clans on there ranking (you could say they wouldn't but they would...) and even put lower ranked clans higher up going by how they like there members.


well, if we see behavior like that, it would certainly indicate that it is not a very effective ranking. won't know for sure until we get responses and see though. I'd be surprised and disappointed to see voting like that from anyone.


It may never be as major, but you'll always have some element of bias, it just depends on how well BG can smooth the variations.
It doesn't even have to be malicious, an easy example is Grifftron's prediction of Tofu to win the CC3, that is his honest opinion, but thats based a lot on Pack losing to Tofu and thinking them better than say Kort who they've never played in a full-on war.

He may very well be right that they are better, but it still based on his own perspective, which in some ways is the main value of an opinion poll like this (to get an overall perception of where people think Clans lie.

FYI I wouldn't mind being involved in voting here :)
Thanks for the props swimmer!
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby Jimmy V on Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:02 pm

I don't think there is anything wrong with voting for clans and, like college basketball, there is a level of awareness the computers could not give. Using the 4 beats 1 example, it may not make a big difference in either the computer ranking or the vote, but the voters may know that two members of the #1 clan just quit and went to #4, resulting in a win. If so, I might be inclined to move the #4 team ahead of the #1 team...

Just my .02
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby chemefreak on Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:31 pm

Sounds like good old fashioned, non-binding, fun. Count me in.
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby Chariot of Fire on Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:22 pm

Polls such as this are certainly subject to bias. I remember TOFU having gone two years undefeated and having the strongest line-up of players (small clan, average rank brigadier) yet Blitz perennially ranked us #6 as he said TOFU were 'unproven'. It therefore made sense that - rather like diving/skating etc - the highest and lowest marks were discarded so that the mean average was less affected by a biased vote. And the one thing that I always felt was important in a ranking table such as this was to identify a clan's strength/potential rather than a recent loss in a challenge. No clan goes on undefeated, yet even after one or two losses you probably wouldn't (shouldn't?) demote them in your perception of their potential.

So for me this is rather like a 'seeding' method. Nadal may not have played competitive tennis for eight months and has slipped down the ATP rankings, yet he would most certainly be seeded in the Top 4 if he entered a tourney. That's why I think it's important to look at a clan's membership when conducting this exercise - it's all about potential rather than past results (which the F400 capably accomplishes).

And just for the record....if I do submit a Top 25 ranking it will have been done with the input of others in my clan rather than just my own perception. Makes sense to run a poll in one's clan forum and get a more-balanced result. Cheers
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby IcePack on Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:42 pm

Of course there is an element of individual perspective (aka bias). That's why there are many opinions given, otherwise it would be "BG's biased one person poll". More voices are combined into a chorus rather than solo.

I also would hope that if he is selective in his selections of voices, reasonable minds can give their individual perspectives, while giving an honest self evaluation not completely dominating their poll. (can't think of the exact word I'm looking for here).

But in the end, removing the top and bottom score and having some good coaches selected for this poll, we can get a good picture of the OVERALL picture of clan perceptions / potential
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12:15:35 ‹Swifte› well that's just bad timing
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby eddie2 on Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:53 am

IcePack wrote:Of course there is an element of individual perspective (aka bias). That's why there are many opinions given, otherwise it would be "BG's biased one person poll". More voices are combined into a chorus rather than solo.


hey aka bias were not biased :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby John Deere on Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:28 am

Swifte wrote:
eddie2 wrote:the pack pissed several clans off (not aka) so these clans would put them at the bottom of these 4 clans on there ranking (you could say they wouldn't but they would...) and even put lower ranked clans higher up going by how they like there members.


well, if we see behavior like that, it would certainly indicate that it is not a very effective ranking. won't know for sure until we get responses and see though. I'd be surprised and disappointed to see voting like that from anyone.

I would LOVE to see jefjef's ranking of us.....25th everytime :D :lol:
I could care less how we are ranked in any system, we enjoy our group and love the game. But would like to see how everyone as a combined group sees the clan world :)
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby Chariot of Fire on Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:37 am

.....
Last edited by Chariot of Fire on Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Highest position #5 (18 Nov 2010) General 4,380pts (11 Dec 2010)
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General Chariot of Fire
 
Posts: 3116
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:13 am
Location: Hong Kong
Medals: 90
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (21) General Achievement (9) Clan Achievement (26)

Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby Chariot of Fire on Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:44 am

I couldn't care less


fixed ;)

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Highest position #5 (18 Nov 2010) General 4,380pts (11 Dec 2010)
User avatar
General Chariot of Fire
 
Posts: 3116
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:13 am
Location: Hong Kong
Medals: 90
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (21) General Achievement (9) Clan Achievement (26)

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