The BG Coaches Poll [archive]

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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby Swifte on Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:30 am

eddie2 wrote:the pack pissed several clans off (not aka) so these clans would put them at the bottom of these 4 clans on there ranking (you could say they wouldn't but they would...) and even put lower ranked clans higher up going by how they like there members.


well, if we see behavior like that, it would certainly indicate that it is not a very effective ranking. won't know for sure until we get responses and see though. I'd be surprised and disappointed to see voting like that from anyone.
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby Leehar on Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:09 pm

Swifte wrote:
eddie2 wrote:the pack pissed several clans off (not aka) so these clans would put them at the bottom of these 4 clans on there ranking (you could say they wouldn't but they would...) and even put lower ranked clans higher up going by how they like there members.


well, if we see behavior like that, it would certainly indicate that it is not a very effective ranking. won't know for sure until we get responses and see though. I'd be surprised and disappointed to see voting like that from anyone.


It may never be as major, but you'll always have some element of bias, it just depends on how well BG can smooth the variations.
It doesn't even have to be malicious, an easy example is Grifftron's prediction of Tofu to win the CC3, that is his honest opinion, but thats based a lot on Pack losing to Tofu and thinking them better than say Kort who they've never played in a full-on war.

He may very well be right that they are better, but it still based on his own perspective, which in some ways is the main value of an opinion poll like this (to get an overall perception of where people think Clans lie.

FYI I wouldn't mind being involved in voting here :)
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby Jimmy V on Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:02 pm

I don't think there is anything wrong with voting for clans and, like college basketball, there is a level of awareness the computers could not give. Using the 4 beats 1 example, it may not make a big difference in either the computer ranking or the vote, but the voters may know that two members of the #1 clan just quit and went to #4, resulting in a win. If so, I might be inclined to move the #4 team ahead of the #1 team...

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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby chemefreak on Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:31 pm

Sounds like good old fashioned, non-binding, fun. Count me in.
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby Chariot of Fire on Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:22 pm

Polls such as this are certainly subject to bias. I remember TOFU having gone two years undefeated and having the strongest line-up of players (small clan, average rank brigadier) yet Blitz perennially ranked us #6 as he said TOFU were 'unproven'. It therefore made sense that - rather like diving/skating etc - the highest and lowest marks were discarded so that the mean average was less affected by a biased vote. And the one thing that I always felt was important in a ranking table such as this was to identify a clan's strength/potential rather than a recent loss in a challenge. No clan goes on undefeated, yet even after one or two losses you probably wouldn't (shouldn't?) demote them in your perception of their potential.

So for me this is rather like a 'seeding' method. Nadal may not have played competitive tennis for eight months and has slipped down the ATP rankings, yet he would most certainly be seeded in the Top 4 if he entered a tourney. That's why I think it's important to look at a clan's membership when conducting this exercise - it's all about potential rather than past results (which the F400 capably accomplishes).

And just for the record....if I do submit a Top 25 ranking it will have been done with the input of others in my clan rather than just my own perception. Makes sense to run a poll in one's clan forum and get a more-balanced result. Cheers
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby IcePack on Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:42 pm

Of course there is an element of individual perspective (aka bias). That's why there are many opinions given, otherwise it would be "BG's biased one person poll". More voices are combined into a chorus rather than solo.

I also would hope that if he is selective in his selections of voices, reasonable minds can give their individual perspectives, while giving an honest self evaluation not completely dominating their poll. (can't think of the exact word I'm looking for here).

But in the end, removing the top and bottom score and having some good coaches selected for this poll, we can get a good picture of the OVERALL picture of clan perceptions / potential
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12:11:16 ‹Swifte› good thing we have the beta program to weed all these problems out
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12:15:35 ‹Swifte› well that's just bad timing
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby eddie2 on Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:53 am

IcePack wrote:Of course there is an element of individual perspective (aka bias). That's why there are many opinions given, otherwise it would be "BG's biased one person poll". More voices are combined into a chorus rather than solo.


hey aka bias were not biased :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby John Deere on Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:28 am

Swifte wrote:
eddie2 wrote:the pack pissed several clans off (not aka) so these clans would put them at the bottom of these 4 clans on there ranking (you could say they wouldn't but they would...) and even put lower ranked clans higher up going by how they like there members.


well, if we see behavior like that, it would certainly indicate that it is not a very effective ranking. won't know for sure until we get responses and see though. I'd be surprised and disappointed to see voting like that from anyone.

I would LOVE to see jefjef's ranking of us.....25th everytime :D :lol:
I could care less how we are ranked in any system, we enjoy our group and love the game. But would like to see how everyone as a combined group sees the clan world :)
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby Chariot of Fire on Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:37 am

.....
Last edited by Chariot of Fire on Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby Chariot of Fire on Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:44 am

I couldn't care less


fixed ;)

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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby kuma32478 on Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:55 am

Maybe I'm crazy, but couldn't the rating system just work exactly the way the CC points system works. Use the same formula? Maybe it's been suggested before, but why couldn't that be another system that could then be combined with things like F400 and others to be averaged and create a BCS type ranking?
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby Chariot of Fire on Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:16 am

Coz then you would end-up with the Farmers' Top 20
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby Swifte on Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:24 am

kuma32478 wrote:Maybe I'm crazy, but couldn't the rating system just work exactly the way the CC points system works. Use the same formula? Maybe it's been suggested before, but why couldn't that be another system that could then be combined with things like F400 and others to be averaged and create a BCS type ranking?


i think that's exactly what the DTX rankings are....
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=438&t=174489
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby freakns on Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:00 am

kuma32478 wrote:Maybe I'm crazy

yes, you most likely are
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby AdamKeith on Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:18 am

I would be willing to represent the YNWA clan.
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby uckuki on Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:35 am

IcePack wrote:removing the top and bottom score and having some good coaches selected for this poll, we can get a good picture of the OVERALL picture of clan perceptions / potential


yup. that's how they do it in several sports to void subjective marks. for each clan take out 2 maybe 3 best and worst scores.
that should help clear any anomalies.
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby Chariot of Fire on Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:46 am

Can we make the submitted rankings from each rep public (i.e. post them in a thread)? This way there is less chance of bias. It also makes the whole exercise more interesting for spectators.
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby freakns on Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:07 am

Chariot of Fire wrote:Can we make the submitted rankings from each rep public (i.e. post them in a thread)? This way there is less chance of bias. It also makes the whole exercise more interesting for spectators.

THIS +1000!
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby eddie2 on Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:43 am

freakns wrote:
Chariot of Fire wrote:Can we make the submitted rankings from each rep public (i.e. post them in a thread)? This way there is less chance of bias. It also makes the whole exercise more interesting for spectators.

THIS +1000!


- 1000

lol if you did this when he goes 2 do it a 2nd time clans will rate other clans bad because they rated them bad. but would be a fun thread to read every one bitching about that clan ranked other clans and visa versa....
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby The Voice on Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:29 am

You're all No. 1 in my heart.
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby BGtheBrain on Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:23 am

Chariot of Fire wrote:Can we make the submitted rankings from each rep public (i.e. post them in a thread)? This way there is less chance of bias. It also makes the whole exercise more interesting for spectators.

In a perfect world I would have no problem doing this, but I think it would cause more harm than good. At the end of the day, I have the final say if someone can vote or not. If I get a ballot, and its ridiculous, that voters gonna get the boot. Sorry man
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby Chariot of Fire on Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:28 am

My world is perfect, maybe that's why.
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby BGtheBrain on Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:31 am

Chariot of Fire wrote:My world is perfect, maybe that's why.


:lol: I envy that
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby Dako on Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:49 am

Chariot of Fire wrote:My world is perfect, maybe that's why.

Hello neighbor ;)!
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Re: The BG Coaches Poll

Postby freakns on Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:52 pm

Chariot of Fire wrote:My world is perfect, maybe that's why.

i thought this about my world and then i saw you in it... i was depressed for a month :(

and seriously, why the animosity about public voting? arguments about voting would be awesome!!!
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Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:20 am
Medals: 63
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (12) General Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (11) Tournament Contribution (3)

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