THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby crispybits on Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:30 pm

There is no push, there is a suggestion. And as evidenced in this thread there have been other suggestions of varying shades of grey between options 1 and 2 made out of a desire to compromise and meet the wishes of all clans since the vote was opened. All I have done is asked if these will be considered, as I believe all of them have merit and the final decision should be the one that brings the most amount of agreement between the most number of clans.
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby Chariot of Fire on Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:06 pm

crispybits wrote:There is no push, there is a suggestion. And as evidenced in this thread there have been other suggestions of varying shades of grey between options 1 and 2 made out of a desire to compromise and meet the wishes of all clans since the vote was opened. All I have done is asked if these will be considered, as I believe all of them have merit and the final decision should be the one that brings the most amount of agreement between the most number of clans.


=D>
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby Keefie on Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:11 pm

IcePack wrote:I'm not worried about times. I also have a life thanks bruce. What I'm concerned with is the push for changing terms and items in the vote when the first phase of the vote is now supposedly over.


Because options 1 and 2 are the most divisive options. If anything can be done to tweak either that will keep the vast majority happy then I'm sure the CD's will consider it.

Many of us are prepared to compromise, a word that appears not to be in your dictionary.
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby IcePack on Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:17 pm

Keefie wrote:
IcePack wrote:I'm not worried about times. I also have a life thanks bruce. What I'm concerned with is the push for changing terms and items in the vote when the first phase of the vote is now supposedly over.


Because options 1 and 2 are the most divisive options. If anything can be done to tweak either that will keep the vast majority happy then I'm sure the CD's will consider it.

Many of us are prepared to compromise, a word that appears not to be in your dictionary.


Funny, I've posted many times about compromises. Apparently you are a selective reader. But, if the CD's are running things and thought we were ready for an official vote, that took a lot of time out of peoples discussions within their clans etc. I think its absolutely insulting to go back now afterwards, and try to change it because the vote didn't go how some people wanted or the most compromising way.

The whole point of the CD's taking over was to hold votes on the majority opinion. They set up their system of vote. Its happening right now. Its created a bunch of divides, and heart aches. Now some dont like the results, so we try to change it after the vote? WTF.

If we're just going to go to a compromise, skip the fucking vote, save everyone the time and hassle of discussing with their clans, and they can pick what they obviously feel is the correct choice and make everyone accept or reject it.
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby niMic on Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:41 pm

crispybits wrote:There is no push, there is a suggestion. And as evidenced in this thread there have been other suggestions of varying shades of grey between options 1 and 2 made out of a desire to compromise and meet the wishes of all clans since the vote was opened. All I have done is asked if these will be considered, as I believe all of them have merit and the final decision should be the one that brings the most amount of agreement between the most number of clans.


To be completely frank, people had a lot of time to bring forward alternatives. The options that are being voted on now were the ones with considerable backing that were put forward. It would make a farce of the process to ignore that entire sequence of events and create completely new middle ground compromises. If anything of the sort was to happen, then we need a new deadline for suggestions and a completely new vote.

We should proceed with planned second vote between the top two choices, and let the chips fall where they will.
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby jetsetwilly on Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:10 am

I will post below the draft for vote 2 that the CD's spent much time discussing yesterday.

We were keen to both maintain the democratic process we set out but also to try to get this a little closer to the middle if we could. We also need a swift resolution, we can't have votes going on forever.

We believe this is the closest we could get to achieving that goal.




Run off vote:

We have noted all the feedback on the cup format and as we proceed with the run off vote we have made a small change that we hope will take us closer to a middle ground on what is clearly a divisive issue.

You have 48 hours to make your choice. Please vote 1 or 2, you should not distinguish between a and b



If either option takes more than 75% of the total vote then it is declared the outright winner.

If Option 1 wins but takes less than 75% of the total vote then we will proceed with option 1 b which does introduce a significant random element purely to round 1.

If Option 2 wins but takes less than 75% of the total vote then we will proceed with option 2 b which introduces a significant seeded element purely to round 1.



In all cases we are assuming a play in round to get us down to 32 clans. All seeding will be taken from the F400 at the agreed start point.

If more than 32 clans do enter, then we can review the chosen option to see if a play in round was the most appropriate or if the system can be modified to cope with a different number.


1.Seeded bracket system


Option 1a uses a strict seeding method for the entire bracket to pair the clans.
Option 1b uses seeding for the top half of the bracket to pair the clans with a randomly drawn opponent.


show: Option 1a - Seed the entire bracket



show: Option 1b - Seed the top 16 to play random opponents in round 1



2. An entirely random draw for every round.

Option 2a - Full random for every round
Option 2b - The top 8 seeded clans are kept apart in round 1. The other x clans are paired randomly. All remaining rounds will see the clans paired randomly.
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby eddie2 on Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:53 am

huhhh is there much difference between any of these.... i would personally like to see a total random draw for round 1 with a bracket running to the end..(not that it counts much because i will not be taking part)

so that if the draw order is..

kort
aka
the pack
tofu

kort will play aka the pack tofu then 2nd round will be the winner of these 2 games facing each other... or we could go with what i said before where....
top 25 play one side of the bracket bottom 25 other side with a random draw first round.... this will make it that a bottom half clan will have a chance to progress to the final gaining experiance as it goes along.
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby IcePack on Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:10 am

I posted my thoughts on the new vote in CDF...
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby josko.ri on Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:28 am

IcePack wrote:I posted my thoughts on the new vote in CDF...

You change your thoughts on daily basis, according to how are chances going for your solution.
IcePack wrote:What I'm concerned with is the push for changing terms and items in the vote when the first phase of the vote is now supposedly over.

And just a day before that post, you were the one who suggested changing terms and items in the ongoing vote.
IcePack wrote:Posted in CDF as well, but:

What about option 1 where instead of 1 v 32, 2 v 31, 3 v 30...18 v 19
It's 1 v 19, 2 v 20, 3 v 21... 18 v 32

Each clan has an equally lower opponent then the next

It seems like You cannot be consistent even with your own opinion.
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby IcePack on Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:53 am

josko.ri wrote:
IcePack wrote:I posted my thoughts on the new vote in CDF...

You change your thoughts on daily basis, according to how are chances going for your solution.
IcePack wrote:What I'm concerned with is the push for changing terms and items in the vote when the first phase of the vote is now supposedly over.

And just a day before that post, you were the one who suggested changing terms and items in the ongoing vote.
IcePack wrote:Posted in CDF as well, but:

What about option 1 where instead of 1 v 32, 2 v 31, 3 v 30...18 v 19
It's 1 v 19, 2 v 20, 3 v 21... 18 v 32

Each clan has an equally lower opponent then the next

It seems like You cannot be consistent even with your own opinion.


Hi josko,
I haven't changed my stance. Where did I suggest it get added to the vote? That second post was an idea I had for possible future consideration.
I don't have a problem with discussing options for future cups or how to avoid this disaster next year, but it's stupid to change te vote now.
You continue to seem to have selective reading and difficulty understanding some basic posts I've made or changing them to fit whatever your viewpoint is. Which is why, I said I won't debate you anymore on this topic. So I will clarify my posts so you can understand, but not going to debate all day again about it.
Thanks,
IcePack
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby Qwert on Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:08 pm

eddie2 wrote:huhhh is there much difference between any of these.... i would personally like to see a total random draw for round 1 with a bracket running to the end..(not that it counts much because i will not be taking part)

so that if the draw order is..

kort
aka
the pack
tofu

kort will play aka the pack tofu then 2nd round will be the winner of these 2 games facing each other... or we could go with what i said before where....
top 25 play one side of the bracket bottom 25 other side with a random draw first round.... this will make it that a bottom half clan will have a chance to progress to the final gaining experiance as it goes along.


Let me understand correct- one side play top clans,,o ther side top botom ranks,? And in the End Top ranked clan will instead to play finale with other Top clan , will play finale with Some Low ranked Clan? Usualy in CC Quarterfinals-Semifinals and Finals play top ranked clans,and you can not predict outcome, but what you sugest we will know outcome of finale and its will be 70-10 for Top Ranked clan. I must say that i never heard of these system to work anywhere.
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby eddie2 on Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:03 pm

qwert wrote:
eddie2 wrote:huhhh is there much difference between any of these.... i would personally like to see a total random draw for round 1 with a bracket running to the end..(not that it counts much because i will not be taking part)

so that if the draw order is..

kort
aka
the pack
tofu

kort will play aka the pack tofu then 2nd round will be the winner of these 2 games facing each other... or we could go with what i said before where....
top 25 play one side of the bracket bottom 25 other side with a random draw first round.... this will make it that a bottom half clan will have a chance to progress to the final gaining experiance as it goes along.


Let me understand correct- one side play top clans,,o ther side top botom ranks,? And in the End Top ranked clan will instead to play finale with other Top clan , will play finale with Some Low ranked Clan? Usualy in CC Quarterfinals-Semifinals and Finals play top ranked clans,and you can not predict outcome, but what you sugest we will know outcome of finale and its will be 70-10 for Top Ranked clan. I must say that i never heard of these system to work anywhere.


this i would say you are wrong in Europe we have the champions league(top ranked teams from each league) and the European cup(league cup winners) the winner of these 2 tournaments then play a game against each other...

like you have just stated the final 16 in the ccup are all the top ranked clans so where is the incentive for lower ranked clans to participate when we have the newcomers cup. all we are doing is making up figures to take part in something that lasts for more than 12 months and every year there is a argument about this event starting because the prior one has not ended.... and really we have no chance of winning it or progressing in it.

what i have put forward will be like the 2 football cups held in europe...

top ranked clans play 1 tourney (meaning top 25-26 clans) with bottom (25 26 clans) playing another one.. So instead of having 26 rounds to get to the final the 2 cups will only have 13 making it that it can be completed within 1 year... then the 2 cup winners play each other, which could be done in the 1 year time frame as well.

this way i feel would encourage all clans to participate and will also sort out the problem about format and clashing with previous years event.

So make a joke of it if you want but this will be the best way forward and make it that lower ranked clans have a chance of winning something for the time and effort they put into running this event for there clan..
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby crispybits on Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:09 pm

Sorry eddie but I don't get it either - are you effectively now suggesting we split the competition in two? I don't see how the analogy works as the champions league is a whole different competition to the europa league, and each has their own winner. They do have a winner vs winner match for the european super cup, but that's a third separate competition which doesnt have anything like the attention on it or prestige (at least from an English perspective, it may be different on the continent) as the other two have.
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby Vid_FISO on Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:11 pm

Not sure that'll work here eddie2, especially when you consider that the current European Champions got knocked out of this season's CL in the group stage but by coming third in the group continue in the EL and are favourites to win it.
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby Leehar on Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:12 pm

crispybits wrote:Sorry eddie but I don't get it either - are you effectively now suggesting we split the competition in two? I don't see how the analogy works as the champions league is a whole different competition to the europa league, and each has their own winner. They do have a winner vs winner match for the european super cup, but that's a third separate competition which doesnt have anything like the attention on it or prestige (at least from an English perspective, it may be different on the continent) as the other two have.

The Community shield also has the League winner + FA Cup winner face each other?
Intriguing idea that for else-where
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby crispybits on Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:15 pm

Absolutely - as a separate competition/one off war match a winner vs winner between CL and CC has a lot of merit (if it can be scheduled right, etc etc)
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby Vid_FISO on Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:15 pm

Leehar wrote:
crispybits wrote:Sorry eddie but I don't get it either - are you effectively now suggesting we split the competition in two? I don't see how the analogy works as the champions league is a whole different competition to the europa league, and each has their own winner. They do have a winner vs winner match for the european super cup, but that's a third separate competition which doesnt have anything like the attention on it or prestige (at least from an English perspective, it may be different on the continent) as the other two have.

The Community shield also has the League winner + FA Cup winner face each other?
Intriguing idea that for else-where


It's actually "by invitation", normally EPL Champions vs FA Cup winner but in years when one team wins both (won't be this season :-)) league runners up gets the gig.
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby eddie2 on Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:20 pm

crispybits wrote:Sorry eddie but I don't get it either - are you effectively now suggesting we split the competition in two? I don't see how the analogy works as the champions league is a whole different competition to the europa league, and each has their own winner. They do have a winner vs winner match for the european super cup, but that's a third separate competition which doesnt have anything like the attention on it or prestige (at least from an English perspective, it may be different on the continent) as the other two have.


yes i am saying split it into 2...

the reason for this is that this event was started when there was only 20 clans and could easily be completed within 1 year there are now more than 50 clans. bottom half clans (lower than 26 on the f600) have the newcomers cup and top ranked can have this event... with both meeting each other after they win there event....

i have thought last season that this event is really for the top ranked clans and lower ranked ones are only there to make the figures up then like with last year there is arguments about start dates because it clashes with the previous years one. if we split the event into 2 it will make it more manageable and more appealing for lower ranked clans.. it will also make it more of a challenge for higher ranked clans. me personally i like to play games i can have a chance of winning against opponents that will make it fun to play. josko has also stated his view is that he would like to play clans of equal capability and does not like facing the lower ranked ones because it is 2 easy for them... this i would say is the same thoughts of most clan members when they play they want a chance to win or want a challenge in the teams they face.
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby catnipdreams on Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:28 pm

I like the idea of two different events, or two phases of the same event, with the upper half of the clans producing a champion, and the lower half of the clans producing a champion, and then those two clans facing off. I haven't read every single post in this thread carefully, but it seems to me like this solution addresses most, if not all, of the concerns folks have.
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby eddie2 on Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:05 pm

catnipdreams wrote:I like the idea of two different events, or two phases of the same event, with the upper half of the clans producing a champion, and the lower half of the clans producing a champion, and then those two clans facing off. I haven't read every single post in this thread carefully, but it seems to me like this solution addresses most, if not all, of the concerns folks have.


i see you are thinking the same as me.
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby Qwert on Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:47 pm

heh, eddie your idea could be work in Uefa, because you have enough quality teams who can compete for Champion LEague title, but here things are very diferent.

You have so little top clans here, so If you have one Cup from 1 to 25 and other cup from 26 to 50, you have several problems.

In First Cup some teams will still be outsider, and can not compete against Top 8.
Lets say that KOrt become winner of first Cup, defeating in tough game other Top clan, what will be hes motive to play another match again very weak team from Cup 2 ?

These Super Finale will not be some great match,, its will be Joke Finale.

Like some pointed previous-we have newcomers cup who are perfect example what you say for these where all low ranked clan can compete, so why will now need to have almost identical competition , so called Cup 2 for teams from 25 to 50 place?

Well next year i will again proposed Option 3, maybe these time people will recognize true value of these format ;)
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby eddie2 on Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:01 pm

Did i say make a matching event like the newcomers cup or did i say incorperate it in to this cup
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby eddie2 on Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:08 pm

Sorry for double post. You say it will be unfair for the final 1v1 but which ever format this goes with out of the options would it not be unfair for 10+ clans. Like what someone else said before this way to do it takes out 95 percent of the arguements it also means clans are not signing up for something that could last 18 months
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby Doc_Brown on Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:19 pm

It's an interesting proposal. Let me offer a variation on it: How about a super-cup tournament that will host the winners of CCup, CL, ACC, and NCC? Granted, now we're talking 2 additional wars, but a competition between those winners is likely to be a pretty good event. That way we're not talking about a potential #1 vs #25. You could see a #1 win CCup, a #4 win CL, a #7 win ACC, and a new #15 or so win NCC.

I realize this is starting to get off topic again. Since Eddie had brought up a top v. bottom type event, I thought this could take a form like that. If CCup retains a strict ranking-based bracket structure and starts to cater more to top clans while the ACC is more oriented to the lower ranked clans. Anyway. Not trying to push either way, I just wanted to throw out an idea that could incorporate Eddie's suggestion.
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby IcePack on Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:59 pm

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12:11:16 ‹Swifte› good thing we have the beta program to weed all these problems out
12:15:00 * IcePack joins Social
12:15:35 ‹Swifte› well that's just bad timing
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