THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby niMic on Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:33 am

silversun6 wrote:
niMic wrote:Josko is from the Balkans. I don't think we need to measure to know who would win.


now lets start a 19 pages "discussion" about geography, anatomy, religion, mathematics, aliens and Nazis...


Have you been watching the History Channel?
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby Chariot of Fire on Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:57 am

And there you go with the ridicule again. Classy. We still beat you though, so stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

As for your "to prove my statements" comment.....what you have quoted proves nothing. You are just cherry-picking your own stats, not the stats of your clan. I'm pretty sure if I look at KORT's record I'd find examples where it failed to record an 80%+ win rate against the lesser-ranked clans. Am I right?

You just argue for the sake of an argument, even when you know you are wrong.

Oh...and thanks for keeping tabs on my playing record, fanboy. At 13-23 in the last two challenges I really should be a cook with that win rate, but I'm not. Must be something to do with your method of counting and how you choose to be conveniently selective.
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby josko.ri on Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:14 am

Chariot of Fire wrote:And there you go with the ridicule again. Classy. We still beat you though, so stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

Yup, 31/29 with accepting the last win gifted from the site glitch. Classy, you must be proud of it =D>

Chariot of Fire wrote:As for your "to prove my statements" comment.....what you have quoted proves nothing. You are just cherry-picking your own stats, not the stats of your clan. I'm pretty sure if I look at KORT's record I'd find examples where it failed to record an 80%+ win rate against the lesser-ranked clans. Am I right?

No, you are not right. My statement is that if it is possible for a player to achieve high win rate, then it is also possible for a clan to do it.
About KORT vs lesser-ranked clan you can find results lower than 80%, but it is not because it is our normal performance, it is because we play our weaker maps in those challenges, in order to give them more equal playing field.
Example to prove this:
My home set vs LOTZ in CC3 Rof32: Austro-Hungarian Empire, Balkan Peninsula, Yugoslavia, Ireland, no-one with unlimited fort. Some of those maps (Yugoslavia) I even played the first time in that challenge.
My home set vs TOFU in CC3 semis: 2*(Hive, FNA, BoA, W2.1, Eurasia), once C-man and WW2 Europe all with unlimited forts, and once C Rome doubles are all the maps/settings where past score of my team is 100% or around 100%.
If you want to answer on question "Is something possible?" then you need to consider challenges where clans/players were giving 100% of their performance (that is why I considered only wars vs top 8 ), and not challenges where we were sending our lower maps just to equalize playing level and have more interesting matches. That is why I excluded from consideration my team scores against lower clans, because in those matches we do not put into games 100% of our performance level.

Chariot of Fire wrote:Oh...and thanks for keeping tabs on my playing record, fanboy. At 13-23 in the last two challenges I really should be a cook with that win rate, but I'm not. Must be something to do with your method of counting and how you choose to be conveniently selective.

It was just a little remark pointing the real reason why you think it is impossible to have 80+% win rate. If you were achieving those scores by yourself on regular basis, then you would know it is possible. With lower than 40% win rate in recent challenges it is natural that 80%+ seems like a science fiction for you.
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby Chariot of Fire on Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:21 am

You and your clan should therefore be able to maintain a very high win % according to your doctrine, yet it hasn't done so. Care to explain? Oh that's right...it's a dice game and sometimes things don't always go the way you want them to. That's CC for you. Even you have a whinge about the dice from time to time, otherwise we'd all know you simply cannot lose and we should all kneel in front of your greatness.

Yup, 31/29 with accepting the last win gifted from the site glitch. Classy, you must be proud of it


'Accepting' a win? It wasn't accepted, it was won. No-one offered it. It's very different from you claiming a 21 game forfeit to win a challenge. Remember that? Oh and last time I looked it was 30-27. Are you awarding yourself wins now?

My statement is that if it is possible for a player to achieve high win rate, then it is also possible for a clan to do it.


Possible, but it doesn't happen does it. Care to cite some examples? Your statements simply portray your clanmates in a bad light. You are great, they are not so great. Yeah, we get it.

About KORT vs lesser-ranked clan you can find results lower than 80%,


Haha, yet you reply with "No, you are not right" when in fact I am.

You are just a liar.
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby josko.ri on Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:24 am

Sorry all for being off-topic in last comments, as at the end it went far away from the thread topic, so the ill speaking and turning true facts into false conclusions from the paranoia man I am going to ignore from now on.

However, I would like to applaud for CDs for finding very good final solution of format proposals. It was very hard task to find mid ground among so many diverse opinions, and I think the last official suggestion which went to voting was the best way to find the middle ground in order to satisfy the most clans. =D>

Just to point out, this statement is coming from person whose format proposal got the lowest total votes in last voting round, so if I am biased only to my own opinion, then I would for sure not support anything else other than my opinion, what majority of you are unfortunately doing.

jetsetwilly wrote:I will post below the draft for vote 2 that the CD's spent much time discussing yesterday.

We were keen to both maintain the democratic process we set out but also to try to get this a little closer to the middle if we could. We also need a swift resolution, we can't have votes going on forever.

We believe this is the closest we could get to achieving that goal.




Run off vote:

We have noted all the feedback on the cup format and as we proceed with the run off vote we have made a small change that we hope will take us closer to a middle ground on what is clearly a divisive issue.

You have 48 hours to make your choice. Please vote 1 or 2, you should not distinguish between a and b



If either option takes more than 75% of the total vote then it is declared the outright winner.

If Option 1 wins but takes less than 75% of the total vote then we will proceed with option 1 b which does introduce a significant random element purely to round 1.

If Option 2 wins but takes less than 75% of the total vote then we will proceed with option 2 b which introduces a significant seeded element purely to round 1.



In all cases we are assuming a play in round to get us down to 32 clans. All seeding will be taken from the F400 at the agreed start point.

If more than 32 clans do enter, then we can review the chosen option to see if a play in round was the most appropriate or if the system can be modified to cope with a different number.


1.Seeded bracket system


Option 1a uses a strict seeding method for the entire bracket to pair the clans.
Option 1b uses seeding for the top half of the bracket to pair the clans with a randomly drawn opponent.


show: Option 1a - Seed the entire bracket



show: Option 1b - Seed the top 16 to play random opponents in round 1



2. An entirely random draw for every round.

Option 2a - Full random for every round
Option 2b - The top 8 seeded clans are kept apart in round 1. The other x clans are paired randomly. All remaining rounds will see the clans paired randomly.
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby Vid_FISO on Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:34 am

josko.ri wrote:Sorry all for being off-topic in last comments, as at the end it went far away from the thread topic, so the ill speaking and turning true facts into false conclusions from the paranoia man I am going to ignore from now on.

However, I would like to applaud for CDs for finding very good final solution of format proposals. It was very hard task to find mid ground among so many diverse opinions, and I think the last official suggestion which went to voting was the best way to find the middle ground in order to satisfy the most clans. =D>

Just to point out, this statement is coming from person whose format proposal got the lowest total votes in last voting round, so if I am biased only to my own opinion, then I would for sure not support anything else other than my opinion, what majority of you are unfortunately doing.

jetsetwilly wrote:
If either option takes more than 75% of the total vote then it is declared the outright winner.

If Option 1 wins but takes less than 75% of the total vote then we will proceed with option 1 b which does introduce a significant random element purely to round 1.

If Option 2 wins but takes less than 75% of the total vote then we will proceed with option 2 b which introduces a significant seeded element purely to round 1.




Personally I find this a terrible way to go about things, those that favour one of the (b) options but would not be prepared to participate if one of the (a) options win are forced to wait until the last minute and change their vote should one option be running at over 75%, if too many decide to do that in the dying seconds then what the majority would be willing to accept might not win at all.
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby IcePack on Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:45 am

Voting is underway
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby josko.ri on Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:58 am

Vid_FISO wrote:
josko.ri wrote:Sorry all for being off-topic in last comments, as at the end it went far away from the thread topic, so the ill speaking and turning true facts into false conclusions from the paranoia man I am going to ignore from now on.

However, I would like to applaud for CDs for finding very good final solution of format proposals. It was very hard task to find mid ground among so many diverse opinions, and I think the last official suggestion which went to voting was the best way to find the middle ground in order to satisfy the most clans. =D>

Just to point out, this statement is coming from person whose format proposal got the lowest total votes in last voting round, so if I am biased only to my own opinion, then I would for sure not support anything else other than my opinion, what majority of you are unfortunately doing.

jetsetwilly wrote:
If either option takes more than 75% of the total vote then it is declared the outright winner.

If Option 1 wins but takes less than 75% of the total vote then we will proceed with option 1 b which does introduce a significant random element purely to round 1.

If Option 2 wins but takes less than 75% of the total vote then we will proceed with option 2 b which introduces a significant seeded element purely to round 1.




Personally I find this a terrible way to go about things, those that favour one of the (b) options but would not be prepared to participate if one of the (a) options win are forced to wait until the last minute and change their vote should one option be running at over 75%, if too many decide to do that in the dying seconds then what the majority would be willing to accept might not win at all.

If you are supporting 1.b option, then you are much closer to 1.a option than any of 2 options and viceversa so the reason to suddenly change into from 1.b to 2 really does not exist. That is actually great job done by CDs, setting up voting options like that. Having format that 40% of clans strongly disagree (for example if there were only 1.a and 2.a options and some of them win with 60% votes) would be something which would damage this Cup because many would not participate. That is why it was needed to be bound mid ground (b options) in order to find format which would satisfy the most of clans. And what I like is way on how the mid ground was set up.
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby IcePack on Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:59 am

If the B options win. It's still possible to get 75%
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby freakns on Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:44 pm

freakns: hey guys, we need to vote again
Otpisani Member 1: again? about what this time?
freakns: CCup format
OM 2: havent we vote about it just a week ago?
freakns: yes! we have!
OM 2: then why do we vote again?
freakns: well, they change the voting system
OM 3: reasonable, its not like first one was any good. and its not like they done anything right from first try
OM 2: yeah, i can see why they have done that. well, you know our vote, just tell them same thing again
freakns: well... thats kind of a problem. we are having different options and system this time.
OM 2: what do you mean?
freakns: well, we dont have straight forward like we did. its more like we have 1b which is pretty much same as 2b, then we have 1a and 2a, which are completely opposite.
OM 1: well, whats the option thats closest to what we had?
freakns: 1a
OM 1: then vote for it!
freakns: i cant...
OM 2: what do you mean you cant? have they finally ban you?
freakns: no, no, we can choose between 1 and 2, then CD will decide weather or not its going to be a or b option.
OM 1: well happy aprils fools to you too!
OM 2: good one freak, you almost got me this time!
OM 3: lol you bastard, i thought for a second you are serious!
freakns: guys, but i am... guys... guys???


so, there is my vote, and they can stick it where sun doesnt shine!

also, i will not vote again on any issue. not me, not any other member of Otpisani. im putting this here, not on CDF subforum cause i said i will not post there again after one of CDs took a liberty to insult one of the members(not me) only because that member disagreed with him.(it was worst possible thing, first insulting him, then tell him not to speak again, because he has the power and he isnt going to listen to him anymore... f-ing shit) and id like to say his words are worse then any josko and COF have exchanged, the same CDs who thought their language is inappropriate and now behaving in much worse manner.
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby Genoke on Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:32 pm

freakns wrote:freakns: hey guys, we need to vote again
Otpisani Member 1: again? about what this time?
freakns: CCup format
OM 2: havent we vote about it just a week ago?
freakns: yes! we have!
OM 2: then why do we vote again?
freakns: well, they change the voting system
OM 3: reasonable, its not like first one was any good. and its not like they done anything right from first try
OM 2: yeah, i can see why they have done that. well, you know our vote, just tell them same thing again
freakns: well... thats kind of a problem. we are having different options and system this time.
OM 2: what do you mean?
freakns: well, we dont have straight forward like we did. its more like we have 1b which is pretty much same as 2b, then we have 1a and 2a, which are completely opposite.
OM 1: well, whats the option thats closest to what we had?
freakns: 1a
OM 1: then vote for it!
freakns: i cant...
OM 2: what do you mean you cant? have they finally ban you?
freakns: no, no, we can choose between 1 and 2, then CD will decide weather or not its going to be a or b option.
OM 1: well happy aprils fools to you too!
OM 2: good one freak, you almost got me this time!
OM 3: lol you bastard, i thought for a second you are serious!
freakns: guys, but i am... guys... guys???

=D> =D> =D> :D :D
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby L M S on Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:37 pm

This whole experiment is going swimmingly I'd say.
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby Doc_Brown on Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:41 pm

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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby eddie2 on Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:27 pm

freakns wrote:

so, there is my vote, and they can stick it where sun doesnt shine!

also, i will not vote again on any issue. not me, not any other member of Otpisani. im putting this here, not on CDF subforum cause i said i will not post there again after one of CDs took a liberty to insult one of the members(not me) only because that member disagreed with him.(it was worst possible thing, first insulting him, then tell him not to speak again, because he has the power and he isnt going to listen to him anymore... f-ing shit) and id like to say his words are worse then any josko and COF have exchanged, the same CDs who thought their language is inappropriate and now behaving in much worse manner.


rofl now someone plz tell me again the cdf isnt the same as cla but with mods in charge who can push you around.....

as for this vote thing thanks a lot clan mods where is my pm asking me where aka vote is ????????

show: raz pm


also i got a couple of decent responses on the idea i brought to the table was this talked about in cdf or pushed under the table ?????

can i also say this new voting thing that is happening is it because what the lower ranked clans wanted was winning so since all clan mods are higher ranked and wanted different from what was winning on votes they have added a get out of jail option ?????

are you guys girls actually acting any better than dako(who i think wasnt acting bad at all..) was ???????????
Last edited by eddie2 on Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby BGtheBrain on Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:28 pm

did you really just post his password?
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby BGtheBrain on Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:28 pm

and email?

sorry for the double post
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby eddie2 on Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:30 pm

BGtheBrain wrote:and email?

sorry for the double post


lol na your imagining it
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby Leehar on Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:41 pm

jetsetwilly wrote:Tally so far:

Option 1 6
Option 2 11
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby eddie2 on Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:47 pm

Leehar wrote:
jetsetwilly wrote:Tally so far:

Option 1 6
Option 2 11


i will tell you aka vote here then it will be option2a stick option 2b because it has nothing to do with total random draws....... people voting for total random draw are wanting top ranked clans to hopefully get drawn against each other making it there are less of them about
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby Vid_FISO on Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:56 pm

eddie2 wrote:
Leehar wrote:
jetsetwilly wrote:Tally so far:

Option 1 6
Option 2 11


i will tell you aka vote here then it will be option2a stick option 2b because it has nothing to do with total random draws....... people voting for total random draw are wanting top ranked clans to hopefully get drawn against each other making it there are less of them about


Not really true, 1a and 1b are effectively no different (and could be virtually identical) which only leaves option 2 for us, which could still turn out no differently at all. Can't speak for the whole clan, but we were quite prepared to go down a compromise route if one of the many suggestions that have been totally by-passed were pursued and developed.
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby eddie2 on Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:19 pm

Vid_FISO wrote:
eddie2 wrote:
Leehar wrote:
jetsetwilly wrote:Tally so far:

Option 1 6
Option 2 11


i will tell you aka vote here then it will be option2a stick option 2b because it has nothing to do with total random draws....... people voting for total random draw are wanting top ranked clans to hopefully get drawn against each other making it there are less of them about


Not really true, 1a and 1b are effectively no different (and could be virtually identical) which only leaves option 2 for us, which could still turn out no differently at all. Can't speak for the whole clan, but we were quite prepared to go down a compromise route if one of the many suggestions that have been totally by-passed were pursued and developed.


vid fiso the total random that was added as option 2 was for most clans who have been asking for it last year and this year, a majority of them clans wanted it for the chance to see a final/ semi final and quater final not have just the top 10 clans involved. the clans that wanted it wanted the slight chance some of these clans would face off in round 1. which has been taken out of the equation in option 2b which is not what was wanted.
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby Vid_FISO on Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:44 pm

eddie2 wrote:
Vid_FISO wrote:
eddie2 wrote:
Leehar wrote:
jetsetwilly wrote:Tally so far:

Option 1 6
Option 2 11


i will tell you aka vote here then it will be option2a stick option 2b because it has nothing to do with total random draws....... people voting for total random draw are wanting top ranked clans to hopefully get drawn against each other making it there are less of them about


Not really true, 1a and 1b are effectively no different (and could be virtually identical) which only leaves option 2 for us, which could still turn out no differently at all. Can't speak for the whole clan, but we were quite prepared to go down a compromise route if one of the many suggestions that have been totally by-passed were pursued and developed.


vid fiso the total random that was added as option 2 was for most clans who have been asking for it last year and this year, a majority of them clans wanted it for the chance to see a final/ semi final and quater final not have just the top 10 clans involved. the clans that wanted it wanted the slight chance some of these clans would face off in round 1. which has been taken out of the equation in option 2b which is not what was wanted.


I can understand that as a clan leader you would prefer that your clan had a 25% chance of facing a top 8 clan in the first round rather than it be a 100% certainty. With the top 8 being seeded it's a 33% chance of being drawn against one of them, so still a 66% chance of avoiding them. I'm not going to work it out but I'd say that the chances of having the semis made up from the top 8 are still quite high, if there are no giant kills - a 41 match war doesn't equate to an FA Cup tie where the lower league side can park the bus and nick a winning goal, or out play complacent higher league opponents (although I guess at a very big stretch it could happen).
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby jetsetwilly on Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:53 pm

1b offers a definite improvement for the clans at the bottom of the pile but clearly only really in round 1.

95% of the time the clans in the bottom 8 are unlikely to have any chance when playing the top 8 in round 1.

1 v 32, 2 v 31, that's almost always going to be the tournament over and done with in one round for those clans.

There's no guarantee that won't still be the case but you can be sure that clan 32 will at least go into a match up with clan 18 thinking they have a decent chance
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby Qwert on Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:10 pm

he-he its look that option 3 give almost best chances for low teams to make in top 16.
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby crispybits on Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:33 pm

jetsetwilly wrote:1b offers a definite improvement for the clans at the bottom of the pile but clearly only really in round 1.

95% of the time the clans in the bottom 8 are unlikely to have any chance when playing the top 8 in round 1.

1 v 32, 2 v 31, that's almost always going to be the tournament over and done with in one round for those clans.

There's no guarantee that won't still be the case but you can be sure that clan 32 will at least go into a match up with clan 18 thinking they have a decent chance


Criticism of 1a: The top half of the clans are guaranteed an easier draw in round 1, and the bottom half of the clans are guaranteed a tougher draw. How does option 1b deal with that criticism?

Criticism of 2a: The competition loses balance (you could get to the final without playing a top clan) and scheduling becomes a nightmare because every round has to wait until the previous round is totally decided. In addition, luck becomes the over-riding factor. How does option 2b deal with those criticisms?

Think through the compromise options a bit better and you might not have both sides shouting from the rooftops about the fact that the likely end result, whichever compromise it ends up being, will not actually address the criticisms of the two extreme systems.
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