Letter to the Clans of CC

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Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby Bruceswar on Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:09 am

Hello Clan World,
Our aim was to make a cup that incorporate every clans wishes to some extent. We thought the best way to do that was to put it up for a vote. Clearly this has not worked and we apologize. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and we should not have put formats in their entirety up for vote we should have picked elements to be voted on, then we may have got a more well rounded format at the end. Our intentions for fully democratic clan world have failed.

We are now faced with a difficult decision...

Go ahead with the vote as is and face many clans not wanting to participate.
Listen to everything that is said and create a new format trying our best to create a tournament that goes some way to please everyone...

Neither are perfect options.

Cards on the table. This voting process has been far from democratic. We wanted it to be discussed in the CDF and public domain, but what we have been faced with is back room dealings, some members attempting to coerce others via pm, and now threats from some of the top clans that will not participate in the cup and they will make an elitist tournament if they don't get their wishes met. Some even voting for opposite of round 1 voting to cement the deal. Because of this democracy has been undermined. The vote is tainted and unfair. We have no choice but to stop the vote at this point.

Everybody seems mad with each other. People have been foeing others, people are mad at the CD's, people are mad at just about everybody and anything to do with this process right now. We as clans should be above that. With the support and backing of rdsrds2120 we have chose to stop the vote and take an option in the middle of what people want. Some seeding and some randomness. We really want all clans to come play and have some fun. This decision will likely not sit well with everybody, but at this point we doubt anything will.

We will be proceeding with a random / seeded first round and a set bracket from then on out. The cup has a long proud tradition which we were in danger of losing sight of and we feel a jump to full random is too much right now. We feel that introducing random in this way gives the lowest rank clans a better chance to enjoy the cup for more than 1 round while letting us test the waters with random.

What does this mean. It means top 16 seeds will be seeded and all others will be randomized. The bracket from then on will be set to keep things rolling. Since we are late getting started and the finals of CC4 have not started, we will have to push a bit faster to keep on time. We do not know how many clans will sign up, but assuming we get over 32 clans it means someone will have a play in round before the round of 32. How will this be determined? Anybody from the randomized section could be used in this round. The top X clans will be in wait for the round of 32 until those matches are finished up. Sign ups for this event will start on Friday 4/5/2013.

Enjoy the cup!

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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby cookie0117 on Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:36 am

Taking over an event that had always been run independantly was always going to give rise to problems, especially as voting for the format gives rise to the opportunity to bitch and some on CC club will never pass up the opportunity no matter how small.
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby josko.ri on Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:48 am

Great decision =D>

Bruceswar wrote:Cards on the table. This voting process has been far from democratic. We wanted it to be discussed in the CDF and public domain, but what we have been faced with is back room dealings, some members attempting to coerce others via pm, and now threats from some of the top clans that will not participate in the cup and they will make an elitist tournament if they don't get their wishes met. Some even voting for opposite of round 1 voting to cement the deal. Because of this democracy has been undermined. The vote is tainted and unfair. We have no choice but to stop the vote at this point.


While democracy can be the best way of determining people's choice, the back room dealings, sending massive pms and organizing lower clans on the way that they always have more than 50% votes in order to dictate to top clans what will we all do is of course the road to fail. If everyone was honest and made their own judgement without instead of being instructed by eddies (every similarity with some real person is accidentally) about how to vote then democracy would work. As it is not like that and as representatives were instructed by players out of their clans how to vote, that was then far from democracy.

At the end of the day, There were already 2 competitions for lower ranked clans to prove themselves (ACC, NC). Nobody from top clans are entering those competitions. So for top clans CCup is the only Cup with all its value and tradition. That said, it should be done on merit and wishes of top clans, with extra chance to low clans to participate, if they wish.

On the same way it is done ACC, but just viceversa. In essence, it is done for lower clans, but without restriction that top clans can participate. So I am glad that CCup will remain opposite of ACC, competition which format is made for top clans, but not restricted only to them, opened to everyone who want a chance to have a shot to top clans.

Also, I actually very like this way of seeding system. In one hand F400 rankings under #20 place is not so reliable. For example, new clan who center will after 2 matches have score between 900 and 1100 so in that case ranking is for sure not reliable and therefore it would be unfair to new clans to put them on #32 and give them #1 as opponents. On this random draw in first round, glitch like that were solved, and still top 16 clans get their deserved seeded place.

For the ones who bitch of elitism, we top clans can also bitch then how we are not allowed to enter NC, as it is restricted to clans lower than #20. So if "counterelitism" or call it "elitism of lower clans" is allowed in Newcomers Cup, why then elitism of top clans should not be allowed? In the same time, entrance to lower clans is allowed, so there is not restriction to anyone.

I am glad that CDs decided on this way, this is great decision in order that CCup remains the real cup with all the prize that it had in the past.
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby eddie2 on Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:11 am

hum josko usually i can agree with most of what you post but where in the hell did you get that ccup was for top ranked clans... it has always been for all clans when it started there was only about 20-25 clans. the clan world over the last 2 years has grown over 100 percent. it now has 52 clans. I also do not like what bruce has said because this event always starts at the same time of the year but because of the increase in the clan world it is not possible to complete this in 12 months so there will also be clashes with the year befores event and this is one arguement that will always carry on every year. So i think it is needed to find some way of decreasing the size of the event 1 way is what i posted about giving this event to top ranked clans only and lower ranked carry on with NC then the winners of both play off...

in effect you are asking clans to sign up to a 18 month event how many changes can happen in that amount of time. 12 months is a manageable time period and it should be kept to that time period...

you also say that you are setting this event to 32 so if all 50(that meet the sign up rules ) clans join you will have to have playoffs over roughly 3 months and effectively adding 1 or 2 extra rounds which in effect will be all the lower half clans so in effect making this a 1st round bye for top clans.

you say about the lower side of clans having 2 events but these were started because all events were based on what the top clans wanted and have been started in the last 2 years to give lower ranked clans the chance to win something.... So with what has now happened i would like to ask the clan mods if it was really worth taking this event off dako because all they done there was piss a lot of people off along with a well respected member of the community.

Now bruce you are saying sign ups start tommorow or next month are you using American date format or uk date format ?????

are we going to see the final format before sign ups start with rules and a rough idea of timelines....

how long are sign ups going to be ????

since it is not going to be voted on are you still going to demand clans join a user group to play this event or have it as all previous events where they only have to meet the requirements to join ???
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby Bruceswar on Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:17 am

eddie2 wrote:Now bruce you are saying sign ups start tommorow or next month are you using American date format or uk date format ?????



Sign ups start tomorrow. Everything will be laid out in the first post so clans can decide if they want to play or not. Depending on the number of clans will depend on the number of play in matches before the round of 32.

Edited to add. Sign ups will be 2 weeks long to give all clans plenty of time to decide.
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby Chariot of Fire on Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:28 am

Interesting
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby niMic on Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:58 am

Bruceswar wrote:
eddie2 wrote:Now bruce you are saying sign ups start tommorow or next month are you using American date format or uk date format ?????



Sign ups start tomorrow. Everything will be laid out in the first post so clans can decide if they want to play or not. Depending on the number of clans will depend on the number of play in matches before the round of 32.

Edited to add. Sign ups will be 2 weeks long to give all clans plenty of time to decide.


Just a suggestion: you should always write out the name of the month to avoid confusion. I realize this is mainly an American site, but the entire rest of the world uses the (far, far superior 8-) ) day/month/year format.
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby Chariot of Fire on Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:08 am

far, far superior


:lol: =D>

It's also far more logical. The F400 thread drives me nuts with its Month-Day-Year format. 04-01-13....wtf?
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby niMic on Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:09 am

I might be stupid, but I get confused for a couple of seconds every time.
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby Chariot of Fire on Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:11 am

I like to think I've gone back in time.
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby freakns on Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:14 am

niMic wrote:I might be stupid, but I get confused for a couple of seconds every time.

you are stupid, but this aint the reason. i just can not understand the logic in writing month before day

Chariot of Fire wrote:I like to think I've gone back in time.

nah, you are still in asylum
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby eddie2 on Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:21 am

Bruceswar wrote:
eddie2 wrote:Now bruce you are saying sign ups start tommorow or next month are you using American date format or uk date format ?????



Sign ups start tomorrow. Everything will be laid out in the first post so clans can decide if they want to play or not. Depending on the number of clans will depend on the number of play in matches before the round of 32.

Edited to add. Sign ups will be 2 weeks long to give all clans plenty of time to decide.


lolnot for aka you got a pm a day or 2 ago from razorvich telling you that as of yesterday he will be gone for just over 2 weeks. and i for one will not be signing aka up for a competition that so far has been run like a farce without talking to him.
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby Bones2484 on Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:22 am

Good decisions, Bruce. Letting the masses fight over pointless arguments is never a good idea!
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby eddie2 on Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:53 am

lol i just remembered something as well....

Was there not a big argument about doing major competition signups during public holidays and it was decided this would not happen again well it is easter break (which in the uk still has 2 weeks to go from sunday) so you are starting and ending this during a public holiday period.... you have just got to ask are you guys actually capable of running this event, because you seem to be doing the exact opposite of what has been said won't happen again.
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby chapcrap on Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:56 am

eddie2 wrote:lol i just remembered something as well....

Was there not a big argument about doing major competition signups during public holidays and it was decided this would not happen again well it is easter break (which in the uk still has 2 weeks to go from sunday) so you are starting and ending this during a public holiday period.... you have just got to ask are you guys actually capable of running this event, because you seem to be doing the exact opposite of what has been said won't happen again.

Easter Break is subjective as to when it is. Is there a national holiday for two straight weeks? I don't think so.
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby eddie2 on Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:01 am

chapcrap wrote:
eddie2 wrote:lol i just remembered something as well....

Was there not a big argument about doing major competition signups during public holidays and it was decided this would not happen again well it is easter break (which in the uk still has 2 weeks to go from sunday) so you are starting and ending this during a public holiday period.... you have just got to ask are you guys actually capable of running this event, because you seem to be doing the exact opposite of what has been said won't happen again.

Easter Break is subjective as to when it is. Is there a national holiday for two straight weeks? I don't think so.


no but all kids are of for 3 weeks and most clans will have several members on holiday meaning they will not be reading and talking about signing up.. i cannot remember if it was last years league or cup where this happened but it was said it would not happen again..
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby Nicky15 on Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:16 am

eddie2 wrote:
Bruceswar wrote:
eddie2 wrote:Now bruce you are saying sign ups start tommorow or next month are you using American date format or uk date format ?????



Sign ups start tomorrow. Everything will be laid out in the first post so clans can decide if they want to play or not. Depending on the number of clans will depend on the number of play in matches before the round of 32.

Edited to add. Sign ups will be 2 weeks long to give all clans plenty of time to decide.


lolnot for aka you got a pm a day or 2 ago from razorvich telling you that as of yesterday he will be gone for just over 2 weeks. and i for one will not be signing aka up for a competition that so far has been run like a farce without talking to him.


The Easter holiday in the UK ran from 29th March - April the 1st. So that holiday is over, of course I do not have details for the rest of the world. As you have stated many times that you will not be participating in the Cup then we will pm the rest of your clan to see what their wishes are. You do not need to worry or be involved Eddie.
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby crispybits on Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:22 am

So now CDs, as well as ignoring the concerns of the majority of clans, will bypass any existing leadership/communication structure in some clans when it suits them too?

Why bother? Why not just decide between yourselves who the "best" clan is now and we can all avoid the hassle of organising and playing hundreds of games and you can just hand the cup directly to them....
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby Nicky15 on Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:24 am

crispybits wrote:So now CDs, as well as ignoring the concerns of the majority of clans, will bypass any existing leadership/communication structure in some clans when it suits them too?

Why bother? Why not just decide between yourselves who the "best" clan is now and we can all avoid the hassle of organising and playing hundreds of games and you can just hand the cup directly to them....


If Eddie says he wont represent his clan on this matter then is it fair that we do not give his clan a chance to sign-up ? I don't think so, that is why we will pm every other member of the clan to see if they want to play.
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby crispybits on Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:27 am

He didn't say that - he said he wants to talk to the clan leader first. Read his post again:

i for one will not be signing aka up for a competition that so far has been run like a farce without talking to him
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby Nicky15 on Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:30 am

crispybits wrote:He didn't say that - he said he wants to talk to the clan leader first. Read his post again:

i for one will not be signing aka up for a competition that so far has been run like a farce without talking to him


I have pms from Razor asking me to ask Eddie if there is anything that needs to be decided on for his clan. Eddie is refusing to sign his clan up. So i will ask the rest of his clan members for their opinion. Also according to my pm Razor will be back before signups end.
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby crispybits on Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:33 am

Exactly - the leader has said to ask Eddie, and you're bypassing that leader's instruction because Eddie has given you an answer you don't like. Pitiful.
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby eddie2 on Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:05 pm

nicky you have no right contacting any member of aka about this tourney. i for one will tell you they will tell you to ask me... crispybits i am the main leader of aka razorvich is 2nd in charge but running most events for aka now.... aka do not work on the clan vote system our guys just like to have fun playing... So since razorvich is on holiday for 2 weeks starting yesterday (then 1 or 2 days to recover because he gone away with the lads on a fishing piss up trip.) he will not be fit to read through all the terms and conditions to this event before the sign ups end... If i think the event was going to be run properly then i would sign up aka on his behalf... But since you lot have acted like you have one peanut for a brain and shown that you cannot organize jack shit i am not willing to make that call. like with my concerns about the clan league aka spoke with several members of the clan about game limitations length of event etc... raz was 2 busy with other commitments and i refused to be aka rep for the event. So we did not sign up.. same as this i will not be aka rep for a competition where the organizers have shown they do not have respect for long standing members of this site (treatment of dako.) which only leaves razorvich to run this event for aka and i do not want him having a rush a response when he gets back...

ps read this...

http://www.gov.je/education/schools/schoollife/pages/termdates.aspx

this quiet clearly states school term times are 27th march until 16th april this is easter break and also a uk holiday during this time people take kids on holidays because they are cheaper than going during the summer.... what i mean by uk holiday is people with kids take time off work to watch the kids and take them away..
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby Nicky15 on Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:46 pm

Is razor from the UK then ?
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby eddie2 on Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:49 pm

no he is from australia can you not read his wall lol..... i guess you gave the peanut to another clan mod... he is on a 2 week easter vacation so i guess it isn't just uk that does this..
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