Letter to the Clans of CC

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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby Keefie on Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:35 pm

HH would be extremely happy if only 8 clans were seeded.
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby Vid_FISO on Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:15 pm

Keefie wrote:HH would be extremely happy if only 8 clans were seeded.


'tis what I suggested it seems like months ago and then got lost in all the posturing
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby jetsetwilly on Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:27 pm

It's a tough one. We were really torn between 8 and 16 seeds. We made our choice and felt we should stick with it. Yes the posts from you guys do make us wonder if we had it the right way around but if we changed it again you just know we would get a pile of grief from someone else for either not liking it or being indecisive yet again !
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby Doc_Brown on Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:20 pm

jetsetwilly wrote:It's a tough one. We were really torn between 8 and 16 seeds. We made our choice and felt we should stick with it. Yes the posts from you guys do make us wonder if we had it the right way around but if we changed it again you just know we would get a pile of grief from someone else for either not liking it or being indecisive yet again !


You could always put up a vote in the CDF forum. Let it run for a week, and give two options:
Seed top 8 clans.
Seed top 16 clans.

You've settled on the format, and that appears closed for discussion, but it sounds like you might be willing to budge on the number of seeds. Let the clans finalize that detail.
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby greenoaks on Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:22 pm

Doc_Brown wrote:
jetsetwilly wrote:It's a tough one. We were really torn between 8 and 16 seeds. We made our choice and felt we should stick with it. Yes the posts from you guys do make us wonder if we had it the right way around but if we changed it again you just know we would get a pile of grief from someone else for either not liking it or being indecisive yet again !


You could always put up a vote in the CDF forum. Let it run for a week, and give two options:
Seed top 8 clans.
Seed top 16 clans.

You've settled on the format, and that appears closed for discussion, but it sounds like you might be willing to budge on the number of seeds. Let the clans finalize that detail.

hear hear
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby Denise on Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:49 pm

Bad idea, imo. Enough voting already. You've already made the decision and sign ups have started. If you change it now, I'm pretty sure someone will end up getting hurt.
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby Chariot of Fire on Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:14 am

Doc_Brown wrote:
jetsetwilly wrote:It's a tough one. We were really torn between 8 and 16 seeds. We made our choice and felt we should stick with it. Yes the posts from you guys do make us wonder if we had it the right way around but if we changed it again you just know we would get a pile of grief from someone else for either not liking it or being indecisive yet again !


You could always put up a vote in the CDF forum. Let it run for a week, and give two options:
Seed top 8 clans.
Seed top 16 clans.

You've settled on the format, and that appears closed for discussion, but it sounds like you might be willing to budge on the number of seeds. Let the clans finalize that detail.


This would have been the way to handle it. Of all the polls that were conducted, this would have been the simplest one. 16 seeds is far too many. If this number were to be carried on into future editions of the cup you would start to see some very repetitive encounters (as the F400 rankings really don't change that much the higher you go). The greater the element of random the more variety this tournament would have.

And variety is the spice of life n'est-ce-pas?
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby eddie2 on Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:19 am

Chariot of Fire wrote:
Doc_Brown wrote:
jetsetwilly wrote:It's a tough one. We were really torn between 8 and 16 seeds. We made our choice and felt we should stick with it. Yes the posts from you guys do make us wonder if we had it the right way around but if we changed it again you just know we would get a pile of grief from someone else for either not liking it or being indecisive yet again !


You could always put up a vote in the CDF forum. Let it run for a week, and give two options:
Seed top 8 clans.
Seed top 16 clans.

You've settled on the format, and that appears closed for discussion, but it sounds like you might be willing to budge on the number of seeds. Let the clans finalize that detail.


This would have been the way to handle it. Of all the polls that were conducted, this would have been the simplest one. 16 seeds is far too many. If this number were to be carried on into future editions of the cup you would start to see some very repetitive encounters (as the F400 rankings really don't change that much the higher you go). The greater the element of random the more variety this tournament would have.

And variety is the spice of life n'est-ce-pas?


lol i missed that bit of maths 16 seeds ...
51 clans only 32 places so if all 51 clans sign up it means a play in round to lose 19 clans. so take 19 of your 32 gives you 13 so 3 seeded clans will need to play in the play in round

lol so are seeded clans going to play a play in round about which ones will take part in the non seeded play in round....

like i have said format has never bothered me i put my thoughts about how i would like to see it but that was as far as it goes. but since you have it as 16 seeds, where it could be possible 3 clans signing up thinking they don't have to start straight away have to be put into the play in rounds. would it not then be a valid ask to reduce it down to 8 seeded clans...
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby jghost7 on Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:04 am

Chariot of Fire wrote:
Doc_Brown wrote:
jetsetwilly wrote:It's a tough one. We were really torn between 8 and 16 seeds. We made our choice and felt we should stick with it. Yes the posts from you guys do make us wonder if we had it the right way around but if we changed it again you just know we would get a pile of grief from someone else for either not liking it or being indecisive yet again !


You could always put up a vote in the CDF forum. Let it run for a week, and give two options:
Seed top 8 clans.
Seed top 16 clans.

You've settled on the format, and that appears closed for discussion, but it sounds like you might be willing to budge on the number of seeds. Let the clans finalize that detail.


This would have been the way to handle it. Of all the polls that were conducted, this would have been the simplest one. 16 seeds is far too many. If this number were to be carried on into future editions of the cup you would start to see some very repetitive encounters (as the F400 rankings really don't change that much the higher you go). The greater the element of random the more variety this tournament would have.

And variety is the spice of life n'est-ce-pas?


Why not alter a different tournament, or even create an entirely new event to create the randomized tournament that some are wishing for? I can see how it could be interesting. It does not have to be this tournament, it can be its own tourney and not have to deal with the problems surrounding this one. Just a thought.

Thanks,

J
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby crispybits on Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:25 am

Fine with that, as long as CC4 gives up the "official tournament" tag and prizes that go with it and the official tournament is structured in a way that is equal for all clans, and gives nobody any inherent advantage.
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby eddie2 on Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:09 am

crispybits wrote:Fine with that, as long as CC4 gives up the "official tournament" tag and prizes that go with it and the official tournament is structured in a way that is equal for all clans, and gives nobody any inherent advantage.


or change the structure of this event
http://www.conquerclub.com/player.php?mode=cup1
or this event
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=187701

or any tourney that has a offical title lets just seed them all.

to seed top ranking players give them byes to the next round hold playoffs for lower ranking players etc etc..
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby freakns on Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:25 pm

crispybits wrote:Fine with that, as long as CC4 gives up the "official tournament" tag and prizes that go with it and the official tournament is structured in a way that is equal for all clans, and gives nobody any inherent advantage.

it can be called my penis in erection unofficial CCup4 as long as i care(as long goes with care, not with full length of my penis... but i do like when someone cares about *him*)

its the competition that thrives me, not official/unofficial title. i dont give a f*ck about title(but you obviously do, even though youll never get close to it... strange)

as for inherited advantage as you call it, its not the advantage. TOFU was 4th seed on CC3, they have faced and beat Otpisani, PACK, KORT and will be facing AFOS in finals. according to latest F400 rankings, to win the cup they would have to beat no10, no4, no1 and no3 clans on list. considering they are no2, im really having problems to see that advantage here. or advantage is they can play bunch of village ppl resident in FISO in first round instead of some good and organized clan?
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby Bruceswar on Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:43 am

Let me say a few things that have needed to be said.

1. For all those clans who are "boycotting" the event. I have to ask if you asked your clan if they would like to play or if this is just your knee jerk reaction to the situation. This is not meant as a slam on anybody, but sometimes we all need to step back a bit and take a deep breath and look again with a clearer head.

2. When dako first opened up discussions for a cup format it was a great thing. It allowed for people to express what they wanted this cup to be. Dako then decided to run the cup as it had been before. (Which I think most people were OK with.) Yes I know some people really wanted an all random cup. Putting it up for discussion and then taking it away I know did not sit well with a few people.

3. We CD's surely have some fault in this whole situation. We clearly made some mistakes and have learned from them. I am not going to place blame on anybody but I think everybody can say the situation boiled over.

4. I would like to apologize to Dako for not getting a chance to fire off a PM or letting him know that we CD's were taking this event official. I will not get into the why of it as I am not going to slam anybody, but there are valid reasons for it. This part I take full blame for and you can all chastise me for it.

5. This cup is going to be lots of fun for everybody involved. I know some of you are mad about how this shook down. When it became clear this had totally boiled over we called in rdsrds2021 for help. He asked us why we even put the format up for a vote. We expressed that full random was popular with some clans. In his words "Well, that's silly", and he wanted us to revert back to what the cup had been for years. We obviously picked a middle ground. With that said I hope you all do not miss out on this cup.

6. I would hope going forward that people will be able to put the differences aside. I saw lots of people shouting at each other, foeing people, and other things. We clans are above that. Sure a good healthy debate is good at times, but we as clans should not let another debate get so heated. No clan should be labeled as "an elitist asshole" or a "low ranked noob clan" Every clan has something to offer to the clan world and every clan is what makes this site so great. This is by far the best website for CC gaming. Bar none. Nobody is even close to having a clan community like ours. I would hope we can keep it that way. We CD's share in some of the blame as we did not step in the middle of the debate as much as we should at times.

7. I know some of you might not like the CD's right now, but I can say this. We CD's are volunteer workers and we spend many hours in the clan area so we can all have some fun. I know you might not agree with everything we do at times, but we are not here to try and make anybody's life on CC harder. We are here to try and do the best we can for clans. We are human and make mistakes at times. I hope going forward everybody can show some mutual respect towards each other.

I will close out with this. As Head CD I am sorry to those of you who feel slighted in all this. It was not my intention to make anybody feel left out. When you are juggling for 50+ clans you can sometimes make mistakes and thus making some clans angry. For that I am sorry and never meant to cause any malice at all. Feel free to flame me if you wish, but I am sincere when I say just like all of you I am here for the enjoyment of the game just like the rest of you. Sure different clans have different goals, but we all want the same thing. Some fun. The CD's are not here to take the fun away from anybody. So if you all want to blame someone, blame me.
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby Chewie1 on Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:11 am

Bruceswar wrote:Let me say a few things that have needed to be said.

1. For all those clans who are "boycotting" the event. I have to ask if you asked your clan if they would like to play or if this is just your knee jerk reaction to the situation. This is not meant as a slam on anybody, but sometimes we all need to step back a bit and take a deep breath and look again with a clearer head.

2. When dako first opened up discussions for a cup format it was a great thing. It allowed for people to express what they wanted this cup to be. Dako then decided to run the cup as it had been before. (Which I think most people were OK with.) Yes I know some people really wanted an all random cup. Putting it up for discussion and then taking it away I know did not sit well with a few people.

3. We CD's surely have some fault in this whole situation. We clearly made some mistakes and have learned from them. I am not going to place blame on anybody but I think everybody can say the situation boiled over.

4. I would like to apologize to Dako for not getting a chance to fire off a PM or letting him know that we CD's were taking this event official. I will not get into the why of it as I am not going to slam anybody, but there are valid reasons for it. This part I take full blame for and you can all chastise me for it.

5. This cup is going to be lots of fun for everybody involved. I know some of you are mad about how this shook down. When it became clear this had totally boiled over we called in rdsrds2021 for help. He asked us why we even put the format up for a vote. We expressed that full random was popular with some clans. In his words "Well, that's silly", and he wanted us to revert back to what the cup had been for years. We obviously picked a middle ground. With that said I hope you all do not miss out on this cup.

6. I would hope going forward that people will be able to put the differences aside. I saw lots of people shouting at each other, foeing people, and other things. We clans are above that. Sure a good healthy debate is good at times, but we as clans should not let another debate get so heated. No clan should be labeled as "an elitist asshole" or a "low ranked noob clan" Every clan has something to offer to the clan world and every clan is what makes this site so great. This is by far the best website for CC gaming. Bar none. Nobody is even close to having a clan community like ours. I would hope we can keep it that way. We CD's share in some of the blame as we did not step in the middle of the debate as much as we should at times.

7. I know some of you might not like the CD's right now, but I can say this. We CD's are volunteer workers and we spend many hours in the clan area so we can all have some fun. I know you might not agree with everything we do at times, but we are not here to try and make anybody's life on CC harder. We are here to try and do the best we can for clans. We are human and make mistakes at times. I hope going forward everybody can show some mutual respect towards each other.

I will close out with this. As Head CD I am sorry to those of you who feel slighted in all this. It was not my intention to make anybody feel left out. When you are juggling for 50+ clans you can sometimes make mistakes and thus making some clans angry. For that I am sorry and never meant to cause any malice at all. Feel free to flame me if you wish, but I am sincere when I say just like all of you I am here for the enjoyment of the game just like the rest of you. Sure different clans have different goals, but we all want the same thing. Some fun. The CD's are not here to take the fun away from anybody. So if you all want to blame someone, blame me.



Some valid comments here Bruce, but without going over old ground...they should have been said earlier.
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby Keefie on Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:45 am

Well it looks to me like there are still a few things to change before everyone can be all Happy Clappy again.

At the moment it looks like at least the following clans have no intention to enter with the rules as they stand:

Headless Horsemen
Manifest Destiny
FOED
VDLL
DBC
Clan_FISO
LOTZ

and by the look of the sign up's so far there are probably others. I can't speak for the others but I feel totally disenfranchised by the whole sorry episode. The compromise that was reached and the patronising positive spin it was given, left a very bad taste in my mouth.

What would change my mind: A reduction in the number of seeds to 8. 16 is way too many for a tourney of this size.

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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby eddie2 on Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:50 am

Keefie wrote:Well it looks to me like there are still a few things to change before everyone can be all Happy Clappy again.

At the moment it looks like at least the following clans have no intention to enter with the rules as they stand:

Headless Horsemen
Manifest Destiny
FOED
VDLL
DBC
Clan_FISO
LOTZ

and by the look of the sign up's so far there are probably others. I can't speak for the others but I feel totally disenfranchised by the whole sorry episode. The compromise that was reached and the patronising positive spin it was given, left a very bad taste in my mouth.

What would change my mind: A reduction in the number of seeds to 8. 16 is way too many for a tourney of this size.

Keefie


add aka to that list..

CONQUER CUP 2013
I have been keeping up to date with the forums.. including CD and friends...and from what I see this is a TOTAL SHIT-FIGHT DISASTER recommend we not join in protest of how this has been organized.
IF there is anyone who is unhappy with this move, We can hold a vote in the clan forum (reply to EDDIE2,RAZORVICH, dorsettrob in a PM)....otherwise lets leave this one to the top clans that want to butt heads.
EDDIE2 is working on an alternative structure that will be heaps better than what is on offer.


NEWCOMERS CUP
Empire and AOC have merged. This means they can join this battle..........they are 2 seasoned top clans and I see them winning this...
DO WE STAY IN ?
Post any comments here: viewtopic.php?f=572&t=188102&p=4132308#p4132308


we have not recived any pms from any member of aka wishing to take part. and i hope this awnsers your question about if we have asked all clan members.
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby Chariot of Fire on Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:11 am

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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby shoop76 on Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:16 am

Maybe in future years this should just be open to the top 32 clans with the top 8 seeded.

Clans have all year, through different events and head to head wars to improve their rankings.
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby greenoaks on Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:34 am

shoop76 wrote:Maybe in future years this should just be open to the top 32 clans with the top 8 seeded.

Clans have all year, through different events and head to head wars to improve their rankings.

i like this suggestion
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby Chariot of Fire on Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:40 am

I was thinking the same thing shoop. Do away with all the play-in and bye hullabaloo and just make it an Open tournament to the top 32 clans. I wouldn't even bother with seeding, but I would place the 4 semi-finalists of the previous cup in different quadrants of the draw so they couldn't meet again until later in the tourney. It would be pretty mundane to play a clan in a final and then meet them again in R1 of the next cup edition, i.e. back-to-back challenges. Such a scenario should be avoided.

p.s. I play golf, but you don't see me playing in The Masters right now. That's because they'e invited the Top 93 in the world. Championship tournaments work this way.
Last edited by Chariot of Fire on Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby Shannon Apple on Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:42 am

Chariot of Fire wrote:Image


QFT. Time to let bygones be bygones and go back to having fun.

This is all turning people off wanting to join up with clans because you all look like a bunch of bickering old biddies arguing over who has the nicest hairdo or some shit. That's how silly it looks. 8-[
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby Foxglove on Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:46 am

Keefie wrote:Well it looks to me like there are still a few things to change before everyone can be all Happy Clappy again.

At the moment it looks like at least the following clans have no intention to enter with the rules as they stand:

Headless Horsemen
Manifest Destiny
FOED
VDLL
DBC
Clan_FISO
LOTZ

and by the look of the sign up's so far there are probably others. I can't speak for the others but I feel totally disenfranchised by the whole sorry episode. The compromise that was reached and the patronising positive spin it was given, left a very bad taste in my mouth.

What would change my mind: A reduction in the number of seeds to 8. 16 is way too many for a tourney of this size.

Keefie


Are those clans not playing because of the seeded nature of it? Then I presume they would have also sat out on a traditional CC4, if it were run according to the rules of its predecessors.

Anyway, we're here, where we are.

Let's play. :)
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby crispybits on Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:48 am

FISO for one said we wouldn't when Dako said the seeding wasn't going to change before CDs took over, and only involved ourselves again when the possibility got re-opened. Can't speak for anyone else obviously.
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby denominator on Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:15 am

Bruceswar wrote:1. For all those clans who are "boycotting" the event. I have to ask if you asked your clan if they would like to play or if this is just your knee jerk reaction to the situation. This is not meant as a slam on anybody, but sometimes we all need to step back a bit and take a deep breath and look again with a clearer head.


I really hope you're not thinking before you say this. Because it either means you think that Clan leaders don't bother asking their clan what they want, or Clan leaders actually don't bother asking what their clan wants. DBC obviously had a lengthy discussion about it before we decided not to participate, or our name would mean nothing.

Bruceswar wrote:2. When dako first opened up discussions for a cup format it was a great thing. It allowed for people to express what they wanted this cup to be. Dako then decided to run the cup as it had been before. (Which I think most people were OK with.) Yes I know some people really wanted an all random cup. Putting it up for discussion and then taking it away I know did not sit well with a few people.


Fair point. That's a moderation issue, not a CCUP4 issue. The only way to learn forum management is to make mistakes and learn from them.

Bruceswar wrote:3. We CD's surely have some fault in this whole situation. We clearly made some mistakes and have learned from them. I am not going to place blame on anybody but I think everybody can say the situation boiled over.


No, I know you can't place blame on anybody publicly, but it's clear that you want to blame somebody other than yourself.

Bruceswar wrote:4. I would like to apologize to Dako for not getting a chance to fire off a PM or letting him know that we CD's were taking this event official. I will not get into the why of it as I am not going to slam anybody, but there are valid reasons for it. This part I take full blame for and you can all chastise me for it.


Forgive me for my ignorance, but why does it matter if the event is "official" or not?

Bruceswar wrote:5. This cup is going to be lots of fun for everybody involved. I know some of you are mad about how this shook down. When it became clear this had totally boiled over we called in rdsrds2021 for help. He asked us why we even put the format up for a vote. We expressed that full random was popular with some clans. In his words "Well, that's silly", and he wanted us to revert back to what the cup had been for years. We obviously picked a middle ground. With that said I hope you all do not miss out on this cup.


The problem is that the middle ground is unfair for everyone involved.

I'll use an 8-clan cup as an example. Here is what it looks like if everyone is seeded:

show


Everyone knows exactly what they're getting when they get into it. The top seeds know they'll play bottom seeds and vice versa, and you play the odds that the better clans will make it further.

Here's what it looks like if nobody is seeded:

show


Everyone knows exactly what they're getting when they get into it. You have no idea who you're playing in the first round, which means nobody has an advantage or disadvantage. It's fair to everybody, but the odds are that you'll have at least 1 clan make the second round that would not have made it seeded, and 1 miss that would have if they were seeded.

Now, here's what it looks like mixed:

show


Now it's unfair for everybody. The top seed loses it's advantage because there is now only a 25% chance they play the bottom seed. The 4th seed gains a very large advantage as there is now a 75% chance they place a lower ranked clan than they should. The bottom seed gains a huge advantage as there is now only a 25% chance they play the top seed. The other three randomized clans will all either pick up a slight advantage or disadvantage. This is especially bad for the 5th seed, if they are close in ranking to the 4th. Imagine being one point in the F400 rankings behind your rival, who you should play in a seeded tournament, only to draw against the top seed while your rival draws the bottom seed. You've drawn an arbitrary line where this slight difference confers a large advantage to one team and a large disadvantage to another. The same point difference between 1 and 2, 2 and 3, or 3 and 4 causes no such change.

Now, if you expand my 8-clan example to 32-clans, the impacts become that much more amplified. To put this in a real-world perspective, let's use the 32 clans currently topping the F400 rankings. The 16/17 split is where this becomes most noticeable. Right now, the difference between 16 (MM) and 17 (TNC) is 12 points. I am not all that familiar with the F400 rankings, but it seems to me that is a rather narrow gap. In full seeded, these close ranked clans would play each other while the top seed (KORT) would play the bottom seed (VDLL) at a difference of 533 points. In a randomized bracket, nobody would know who they play so no advantage is conferred. But in a mixed, MM gains a huge advantage over TNC, and VDLL gains a huge advantage over KORT.

The chances of MM getting a better matchup than seeded is 93.75%, while the chances of them drawing a worse matchup than seeded is 0%. MM gains a huge advantage over all opponents. The same numbers ring up for VDLL, who cannot draw worse than the seeded matchup of KORT. Conversely, KORT and TNC cannot draw better, only worse. Imagine being TNC, who are only 12 points out of being seeded but end up playing the top seeded KORT in the first round. One could hardly call that fair. Nor is it fair for KORT, who should gain the advantage of playing the bottom ranked seed, but instead have to play the 17th, who are barely out of seeding.

A tournament like this MUST be either completely seeded or completely random. The mixed system confers too much advantage to being in certain spots in the standings, which is further compounded by which clans decide to join the tournament.

Bruceswar wrote:6. I would hope going forward that people will be able to put the differences aside. I saw lots of people shouting at each other, foeing people, and other things. We clans are above that. Sure a good healthy debate is good at times, but we as clans should not let another debate get so heated. No clan should be labeled as "an elitist asshole" or a "low ranked noob clan" Every clan has something to offer to the clan world and every clan is what makes this site so great. This is by far the best website for CC gaming. Bar none. Nobody is even close to having a clan community like ours. I would hope we can keep it that way. We CD's share in some of the blame as we did not step in the middle of the debate as much as we should at times.


As an admitted member of a low ranked noob clan, I will gladly call other clans elitist assholes, because that is exactly what the format calls for. The top clans (I am overgeneralizing here, I realize) do not want to face off in the early rounds. I understand that, but to build a format that ensures moving your top clans into later rounds at the expense of lower clans is the definition of elitist asshole. I firmly believe that the format should not matter as all clans should be playing for the overall win regardless of the format, and the winning clan will have to defeat 3 other deserving clans to win. But because each round counts as a war, affects the F400 standings, and has medals awarded, each round is important outside the cup itself. For that reason, you cannot adjust the format to confer advantage to the top clans unless you're going to be open about it and seed the whole thing.

If you are arguing that you don't want a random cup because you don't want the top clans to face off in the early rounds, you are an elitist asshole.

Bruceswar wrote:7. I know some of you might not like the CD's right now, but I can say this. We CD's are volunteer workers and we spend many hours in the clan area so we can all have some fun. I know you might not agree with everything we do at times, but we are not here to try and make anybody's life on CC harder. We are here to try and do the best we can for clans. We are human and make mistakes at times. I hope going forward everybody can show some mutual respect towards each other.


Thanks for admitting this, albeit as Chewie noted a bit late.
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Re: Letter to the Clans of CC

Postby Chewie1 on Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:35 pm

Bruceswar wrote:1. For all those clans who are "boycotting" the event. I have to ask if you asked your clan if they would like to play or if this is just your knee jerk reaction to the situation. This is not meant as a slam on anybody, but sometimes we all need to step back a bit and take a deep breath and look again with a clearer head.


Denominator wrote:
I really hope you're not thinking before you say this. Because it either means you think that Clan leaders don't bother asking their clan what they want, or Clan leaders actually don't bother asking what their clan wants. DBC obviously had a lengthy discussion about it before we decided not to participate, or our name would mean nothing.


These two statements helps highlight what went completely wrong with the debate for the CCUP4 format.

The CD and Friends was set up to improve the clan world and how it is run, a volunteer(s) from each clan was nominated as the voice of their clan to discuss issues, report back to their clans and then ultimately vote on issues.

But when the vote had been cast on this and the voters views totally disregarded this statement has now followed:

Bruceswar wrote:1. For all those clans who are "boycotting" the event. I have to ask if you asked your clan if they would like to play or if this is just your knee jerk reaction to the situation. This is not meant as a slam on anybody, but sometimes we all need to step back a bit and take a deep breath and look again with a clearer head.



So now that I have " stepped back and taken a deep breath" The question is where does this leave us in the future, the CCUP4 is now a poisoned chalice as the debate continues to run and run.

DBC has polls/votes on significant issues that affects the clan, on occasion one or more of the 3 leaders have not agreed in the outcome of our vote but as a leader they have then led by example and accepted what the majority wanted.
In short they didnt abuse their power and force an issue that wasnt wanted. But the leaders of the CD have done exactly that:

Bruceswar also wrote:

5. This cup is going to be lots of fun for everybody involved. I know some of you are mad about how this shook down. When it became clear this had totally boiled over we called in rdsrds2021 for help. He asked us why we even put the format up for a vote. We expressed that full random was popular with some clans. In his words "Well, that's silly", and he wanted us to revert back to what the cup had been for years. We obviously picked a middle ground. With that said I hope you all do not miss out on this cup.

Reinforces the abuse of power.

I voted for DBC but ours and others were ignored so CDS put yourself in our shoes and stop trying to deflect the blame from yourselves with belittling theories of knee jerks etc...
Man up and take full blame you would earn back a portion of your lost respect.
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