Dropping Major Clan Events

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Re: Dropping Major Clan Events

Postby Chariot of Fire on Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:05 am

josko.ri wrote:
ljex wrote:
josko.ri wrote:
eddie2 wrote:josko what happened to this ?????

22:59:04 he's agreed not to post anything more vs cof/tofu in public
22:59:12 whether or not he follows it, idk
22:59:22 but I think if tofu doesnt either, he might not

they said nothing towards you so why start again :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

I do not see how your comment contributed to this discussion nor how is it related to topic.


I do not see how your comment contributed to this discussion nor how is it related to topic.

I put 2 comments in this topic, and both were on topic. One was correcting lie statement said by other person and that statement is related to topic of this thread (and I wrote in the reply that the only point of my post is to correct lie statement), and another one was also very related to topic of this discussion, about (not) allowing clans to participate at the same time in competitions with higher game load than competition they withdrew from.


I am sick of your accusations regarding truthful statements that you claim to be lies. You simply will not stop haranguing our clan and you seize upon every opportunity to contradict something someone has said when in truth you can neither prove nor disprove anything. You simply do it to be annoying. I am reporting your post because this ceaseless baiting of TOFU and its members has to cease.
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Re: Dropping Major Clan Events

Postby josko.ri on Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:18 am

Chariot of Fire wrote:
josko.ri wrote:
ljex wrote:
josko.ri wrote:
eddie2 wrote:josko what happened to this ?????

22:59:04 he's agreed not to post anything more vs cof/tofu in public
22:59:12 whether or not he follows it, idk
22:59:22 but I think if tofu doesnt either, he might not

they said nothing towards you so why start again :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

I do not see how your comment contributed to this discussion nor how is it related to topic.


I do not see how your comment contributed to this discussion nor how is it related to topic.

I put 2 comments in this topic, and both were on topic. One was correcting lie statement said by other person and that statement is related to topic of this thread (and I wrote in the reply that the only point of my post is to correct lie statement), and another one was also very related to topic of this discussion, about (not) allowing clans to participate at the same time in competitions with higher game load than competition they withdrew from.


I am sick of your accusations regarding truthful statements that you claim to be lies. You simply will not stop haranguing our clan and you seize upon every opportunity to contradict something someone has said when in truth you can neither prove nor disprove anything. You simply do it to be annoying. I am reporting your post because this ceaseless baiting of TOFU and its members has to cease.

I used exact argument to prove truth of my statement, everyone can very easy check what is truth by just using game finder tool. If you cannot accept pure arguments that is your problem. Whatever I said I stay behind that, and nothing is lie. If you are going to report me for writing true facts, you are free to do it. I know it is often very hard to accept true facts and is easier to promote fake reality.
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Re: Dropping Major Clan Events

Postby Chariot of Fire on Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:45 am

You use the terms 'exact argument' and 'pure argument' very liberally, when in reality all you are doing is making a supposition which is not fact-based at all. Who knows better who will be available for the duration of a tournament; you or the clan that is in possession of all the facts? The TO has already accepted our clan's withdrawal from CL5 and that is the end of the matter. I have no idea why you relentlessly pursue this topic and try to 'prove' that TOFU's withdrawal was unnecessary. What is the point, and what do you hope to gain? The only reason I can see is that you wish to discredit the clan and its members, and it is for this reason that your post was reported.
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Re: Dropping Major Clan Events

Postby josko.ri on Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:31 am

Chariot of Fire wrote:You use the terms 'exact argument' and 'pure argument' very liberally, when in reality all you are doing is making a supposition which is not fact-based at all. Who knows better who will be available for the duration of a tournament; you or the clan that is in possession of all the facts? The TO has already accepted our clan's withdrawal from CL5 and that is the end of the matter. I have no idea why you relentlessly pursue this topic and try to 'prove' that TOFU's withdrawal was unnecessary. What is the point, and what do you hope to gain? The only reason I can see is that you wish to discredit the clan and its members, and it is for this reason that your post was reported.

Of course that clan of possession of all the facts knows better, but it is possible that that clan is possessing one facts as a real reasons for withdrawing but telling to clan world other facts just to make themselves looking better.
I think that may be reality with TOFU's case and therefore I am investigating truth of your words. If I found it truthful then I would not search for counter evidence. If not, then I search and present counter evidence.
I hope to gain that clans become honest to each other, especially about facts which have influence to all other clans like withdrawing from major events.
So, you were wrong that my only motive is to discredit TOFU, my motive is questioning truth of your posts by finding real evidence about it (how many your players are currently joining new games, and is that number less or more players than minimum needed for participating in CL5 - for now that number is more than minimum requirements).
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Re: Dropping Major Clan Events

Postby Chariot of Fire on Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:16 am

Of course that clan of possession of all the facts knows better, but it is possible that that clan is possessing one facts as a real reasons for withdrawing but telling to clan world other facts just to make themselves looking better. I think that may be reality with TOFU's case


How are we making ourselves look better after withdrawing from a tournament that we were favourites to win? What possible motive could we have other than for the reasons we already gave? You have provided no plausible reason why TOFU withdrew from CL5 (but not from RL, 7-Up or CC4) yet you still cast aspersions on our clan and its members. This witch hunt by you has to stop, we are all growing sick and tired of it (and I'm sure I speak for some CC members who are not even in our clan).
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Re: Dropping Major Clan Events

Postby Nicky15 on Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:30 am

As it has been said before qwert has made a ruling in regards to TOFU withdrawing from CL5. This ruling is fully backed by the CD team. This decision will not be changed.
It is fair to say this issue has provoked a degree of discord. Every clan would have faced a similar situation in the past but most chose to grin an bear it and I suspect in most cases will do again in the future.

At the time of withdrawing from CL5 TOFU felt they were unable to meet the minimum requirements for this competition, we fully respect that. Leaving at the point they did prevents them from actually causing disruption to the league. The only one inconvenienced was qwert. Division One could now be considered easier, and TOFU will suffer as they have now do not have the opportunity to win and pull off the double.

Lets not forget that this is just a game. Something we all do as a hobby. Real life is not predictable and we join competitions fully expecting to be able to complete them. Real life issues can strike any number of people at any one time, in any clan, this can not be foretold. The Cd team accepts ToFUs reasons, and we would like the allegations and conspiracy theories to stop, all alleged evidence stated in this thread is purely speculative.

This thread is now to be used for the purpose of discussing the legitimacy of creating a new rule to prevent Clans withdrawing from events in the future. No further reference to the authenticity of TOFU withdrawing from CL5 is relevant. This issue has been dealt with. Any further mention will be considered trolling. Lets please look forward.
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Re: Dropping Major Clan Events

Postby Dako on Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:15 am

josko.ri wrote:Great, very reasonable ruling, and more important ruling which follows present rules and common sense. =D>


Thank you Nicky. Should we discuss dropping of events here or in CDF?
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Re: Dropping Major Clan Events

Postby Nicky15 on Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:18 am

Dako wrote:
Great, very reasonable ruling, and more important ruling which follows present rules and common sense. =D>


Thank you Nicky. Should we discuss dropping of events here or in CDF?


It can be discussed in both places. This is not a simple issue so the opinions of a wider majority of the clan world may be useful in helping the CDF create a rule, should we decide one is needed.
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Re: Dropping Major Clan Events

Postby josko.ri on Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:31 am

Discussing about topic of this thread was something I did from my first post here. This my post has nothing to do with past issues, I very well understand that past issue with TOFU is already ruled and finished. I also understand no ruling can be done backwards, whichever new rule we (possibly) agree on this thread it can be applied only for future cases of clans dropping from an event.

So here is my opinion, and is NOT related to TOFU (to not be again false accused that I only do personal wars here) but is related to possible future cases of withdrawing from clan events.

I see many of you are discussing about should clan who drop out be punished for not participating in next year competition which will start several months or one year after current competition.

But, I think people who are discussing about it do not consider more important issue, should those clans be allowed to enter/play in ongoing clan competitions, not in clan competitions that will happen sometimes in future.

If a clan cannot commit to play in one competition, then how the same clan at the same time can commit to play in another competition which has higher game load?

I do not say penalize withdrawing clan for lifetime or for next competitions (if they provide evidence that they recruited some new members), but I say eliminate them from all ongoing competitions which have equal or higher game load than competition which they withdrew from. If a clan cannot have commitment for example for 16 new games every 2 weeks, isn't it paradoxal to allow them to compete at the same time in another competition which has for example 20 new games every 2 weeks?

If the clan for future events recruit new players and be again able to compete, then allow them to enter, but at the same time of withdrawing one competition, the clan should not be allowed to play in another competition which has higher game load.
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Re: Dropping Major Clan Events

Postby Qwert on Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:41 am

I think that All clans Events are Separate Tournaments, so if some drop Happen in CC4, then any potential punishment need to be related on CC5.

Simple all events are separate and not same
Conquer Cup bracket series could only compare with same event(CC1-CC2-CC3-CC4 and future event from Same series CC5 and etc)
Clan League series could only compare with same event(CL1-CL2-CL3-CL4-CL5 and future even from same series CL6 and etc)
NC bracket could only compare with same event.

They have different rules, different clan player eligibility propositions, so any possible punishment could only have effect for same event where punishment are declared.
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Re: Dropping Major Clan Events

Postby ljex on Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:07 pm

josko.ri wrote:
ljex wrote:
josko.ri wrote:
eddie2 wrote:josko what happened to this ?????

22:59:04 he's agreed not to post anything more vs cof/tofu in public
22:59:12 whether or not he follows it, idk
22:59:22 but I think if tofu doesnt either, he might not

they said nothing towards you so why start again :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

I do not see how your comment contributed to this discussion nor how is it related to topic.


I do not see how your comment contributed to this discussion nor how is it related to topic.

I put 2 comments in this topic, and both were on topic. One was correcting lie statement said by other person and that statement is related to topic of this thread (and I wrote in the reply that the only point of my post is to correct lie statement), and another one was also very related to topic of this discussion, about (not) allowing clans to participate at the same time in competitions with higher game load than competition they withdrew from.


This went so far over your head it is almost unbelievable.

The post I quoted of you saying a post added nothin also added nothing itself...
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Re: Dropping Major Clan Events

Postby greenoaks on Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:39 pm

ljex wrote:
josko.ri wrote:
ljex wrote:
josko.ri wrote:
eddie2 wrote:josko what happened to this ?????

22:59:04 he's agreed not to post anything more vs cof/tofu in public
22:59:12 whether or not he follows it, idk
22:59:22 but I think if tofu doesnt either, he might not

they said nothing towards you so why start again :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

I do not see how your comment contributed to this discussion nor how is it related to topic.


I do not see how your comment contributed to this discussion nor how is it related to topic.

I put 2 comments in this topic, and both were on topic. One was correcting lie statement said by other person and that statement is related to topic of this thread (and I wrote in the reply that the only point of my post is to correct lie statement), and another one was also very related to topic of this discussion, about (not) allowing clans to participate at the same time in competitions with higher game load than competition they withdrew from.


This went so far over your head it is almost unbelievable.

The post I quoted of you saying a post added nothin also added nothing itself...

i thought it was clever. =D>

qwert wrote:I think that All clans Events are Separate Tournaments, so if some drop Happen in CC4, then any potential punishment need to be related on CC5.

Simple all events are separate and not same
Conquer Cup bracket series could only compare with same event(CC1-CC2-CC3-CC4 and future event from Same series CC5 and etc)
Clan League series could only compare with same event(CL1-CL2-CL3-CL4-CL5 and future even from same series CL6 and etc)
NC bracket could only compare with same event.

They have different rules, different clan player eligibility propositions, so any possible punishment could only have effect for same event where punishment are declared.

telling a clan they can't compete next year in these yearly events loses a lot of oomph. treat all official events the same ie. if they drop from todays event they cant join the next 1 or 2 (if that is the decision), then the consequences are immediate.

you don't smack a child a week later for being naughty. it is immediate or not at all.
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Re: Dropping Major Clan Events

Postby chapcrap on Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:27 pm

greenoaks wrote:telling a clan they can't compete next year in these yearly events loses a lot of oomph. treat all official events the same ie. if they drop from todays event they cant join the next 1 or 2 (if that is the decision), then the consequences are immediate.

you don't smack a child a week later for being naughty. it is immediate or not at all.

That's basically where I am at with this. I think you either tell them they can't compete in the next clan event (or two events or whatever) or make it a certain time period that they can not compete. I think that 2-4 months would be fine. So, if they drop, they can not get privs for anything for 2 months and all other privs are removed as well. If they are in an event or war, any unmade games are forfeited for purposes of F400.
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Re: Dropping Major Clan Events

Postby Doc_Brown on Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:45 pm

Which of the following do you think is a more preferable situation?
1) More clans participating in events, with an occasional clan dropping out before or in between wars.
2) Fewer clans participating with minimal (or zero) dropouts.

To put this another way, would CC4 be a better event if only 20-25 clans signed up but you knew all were going to stay in until they were eliminated? Cheme already noted that they have the authority to issue appropriate penalties once privileges are issued, so we're talking about clans dropping out between or before wars. Because if you impose severe penalties (and a big hit to rankings or a ban from a future major event is severe), clans are going to avoid joining if they think there is even the chance they might have to drop out. Clans hovering in the 10-20 member range are going to be far less likely to join events. New events like Lx's cup probably end up with 3-4 participating clans. Is that a better outcome for the clan world? I really don't see how. The only proposal I've seen that doesn't result in significant harm to clan life as a whole is Foxy's: If a clan has to drop out due to inability (or anticipated inability) to fill the game slots, it is required to recruit new members prior to joining a new event.
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Re: Dropping Major Clan Events

Postby chapcrap on Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:06 pm

Doc_Brown wrote:Which of the following do you think is a more preferable situation?
1) More clans participating in events, with an occasional clan dropping out before or in between wars.
2) Fewer clans participating with minimal (or zero) dropouts.

To put this another way, would CC4 be a better event if only 20-25 clans signed up but you knew all were going to stay in until they were eliminated? Cheme already noted that they have the authority to issue appropriate penalties once privileges are issued, so we're talking about clans dropping out between or before wars. Because if you impose severe penalties (and a big hit to rankings or a ban from a future major event is severe), clans are going to avoid joining if they think there is even the chance they might have to drop out. Clans hovering in the 10-20 member range are going to be far less likely to join events. New events like Lx's cup probably end up with 3-4 participating clans. Is that a better outcome for the clan world? I really don't see how. The only proposal I've seen that doesn't result in significant harm to clan life as a whole is Foxy's: If a clan has to drop out due to inability (or anticipated inability) to fill the game slots, it is required to recruit new members prior to joining a new event.

I choose penalizing for dropouts so that we get less.
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