Unofficial Clan Ladder - Updated May 17th-2009

[Juan_Bottom]

Did no one see the "Unofficial" part of the topic heading?

We are working on generally accepted guidelines which hopefully are very flexible.

I am speaking directly about these potential rules that are being discussed. Like making a minumum 'number of flat rate games for any challenge.' I'm violently opposed to challenge rules, and have a large rock.

We are working on generally accepted guidelines which hopefully are very flexible. Clans can continue doing what your doing now, nothing has changed.

Personally, no guidelines works best for me(except of course with the CLA and ladder). I prefer to see the clans work that out between themselves for each challenge, like they do now. You understand of course.

You enter at 1000 points plus whatever result happens in your first challenge. I didn't post the point values on the ladder for various reasons.

Good! This is the better system, IMHO. But why not post clan values?

[jpcloet]

Several clans have pointed out the TSM's lack a flexibility with their restrictions, even leading to challenges being cancelled. If you limit the games settings, you may not have many clans that want to face you....

Translation: "the reason we are talking about settings is that the members of CLA don't like yours and we will band together to ensure you do not get a game if you don't change... you have already had a cancellation, take it as a warning, muahahahah.. i am the mighty ocelot " heheh that last part is poetic licence.

I've checked the CLA forums and there is not mention of TSM's settings, only that we wanted you to join the CLA. You're reading too much into this.

My quoted lines are my impression from reading this thread:

TSM Cancelled Challenge

I have set up and been involved in MANY clan challenges, EVERY other clan we have played has selected maps and settings from your "do not play" list, how do you guys plan on having challenges at all?

I'm not sure if anyone would consider your clan the "Best All-Around Clan" if there are maps you haven't or can't play.

[jiminski]

Several clans have pointed out the TSM's lack a flexibility with their restrictions, even leading to challenges being cancelled. If you limit the games settings, you may not have many clans that want to face you....

Translation: "the reason we are talking about settings is that the members of CLA don't like yours and we will band together to ensure you do not get a game if you don't change... you have already had a cancellation, take it as a warning, muahahahah.. i am the mighty ocelot " heheh that last part is poetic licence.

I've checked the CLA forums and there is not mention of TSM's settings, only that we wanted you to join the CLA. You're reading too much into this.

My quoted lines are my impression from reading this thread:

TSM Cancelled Challenge

I have set up and been involved in MANY clan challenges, EVERY other clan we have played has selected maps and settings from your "do not play" list, how do you guys plan on having challenges at all?

I'm not sure if anyone would consider your clan the "Best All-Around Clan" if there are maps you haven't or can't play.

I have no idea why you are trying to stir this up mate, if there is no mention in CLA why did you bring it up here? you referred to it as a point of contention which would be handled under CLA remit.. for discussion
Anyway, I have said my piece now, good luck with your new clan... Monki's Challenge CLA (all settings available) are you free?

[jpcloet]

The Clan Leaders Association (CLA) is obviously non-competitive, however, I'm glad to see you're now flexible on your settings. You're quite the clever monkey.

Legion of the Damned would be interested in a TSM challenge at a later time. We're currently in 3 challenges, and have another big one lined up in the near future and another 5 clans have contacted me or have been contacted me about challenges. I've been a busy LOD leader.

[jiminski]

The Clan Leaders Association (CLA) is obviously non-competitive, however, I'm glad to see you're now flexible on your settings. You're quite the clever monkey.

heh thank you and yes, completely flexible but only for the challenge i made against CLA.. you see, it is a quandary: if you take it you will all be banned from the CLA-clan .. (sorry i have a st-stutter sometimes when i am nervous..)
i realise it is a dilemma but monki's will join CLA if you win, as a sweetener

[Frop]

Mr. Cloet is quite the flip-flopping politician. The '1 competitive clan rule' is a 'grey area' - players are asked to leave their national team, yet whether or not they leave is not that big a deal and also the sole responsibility of the clans and their players. The CLA doesn't want to dictate any settings or maps used for challenges, yet it wants to come up with 'guidelines' regarding said challenges.

Do you think it would possible for you to maintain the same opinion for at least a day or so? Your tone has been very condescending throughout this discussion and I'm not sure if I can appreciate that you're having little jabs at our conduct (and of course blatantly deny that you did in your next post).

Here's another one.

I'm not sure if anyone would consider your clan the "Best All-Around Clan" if there are maps you haven't or can't play.

Please be so kind as to explain how I've completely misunderstood this statement and how being the best 'all-around' (sic) clan is relevant to 'the future of clans on CC'.

[hulmey]

Mr. Cloet is quite the flip-flopping politician. The '1 competitive clan rule' is a 'grey area' - players are asked to leave their national team, yet whether or not they leave is not that big a deal and also the sole responsibility of the clans and their players. The CLA doesn't want to dictate any settings or maps used for challenges, yet it wants to come up with 'guidelines' regarding said challenges.

Do you think it would possible for you to maintain the same opinion for at least a day or so? Your tone has been very condescending throughout this discussion and I'm not sure if I can appreciate that you're having little jabs at our conduct (and of course blatantly deny that you did in your next post).

Here's another one.

I'm not sure if anyone would consider your clan the "Best All-Around Clan" if there are maps you haven't or can't play.

Please be so kind as to explain how I've completely misunderstood this statement and how being the best 'all-around' (sic) clan is relevant to 'the future of clans on CC'.

Jpoclet does not making the rules, as these are being worked on in the CLA forums. So, nothing has been set in stone so far and hardly any voting has been finished. This would be the ideal time for your clan to get involved and shape the CLA. Lets try and make this happen without picking on little bits and pieces and going all negative and defensive!

The CLA is a fantastic idea and i thought about it before and thought it would be to much of a headache

So again, speak to your clan leader and join the CLA and see what its about, if you dont like things, i suppose you could always pull out

[Juan_Bottom]

Hey Hulmey, this doesn't really seem like the place to discuss this. Is there, or could you have one of the CLAers make a callout for it? Maybe even a discussion topic in the GD? Something that lets people know what the CLA is really about, and what they do? I just don't see why my clan should feel motivated to join, you know? You guys need some better PR I think....

[jpcloet]

Mr. Cloet is quite the flip-flopping politician. The '1 competitive clan rule' is a 'grey area' - players are asked to leave their national team, yet whether or not they leave is not that big a deal and also the sole responsibility of the clans and their players. The CLA doesn't want to dictate any settings or maps used for challenges, yet it wants to come up with 'guidelines' regarding said challenges.

Many of the posts above include my opinions and opinions of others as stated in the CLA forums so, yes, I understand if you think I'm flip flopping as I'm throwing lots of opinions out there. There is a great diversity of opinions and there are some common thoughts. Since this thread has been up, a recommendation has been made to change the wording of "1 competitive clan" to a more defined definition and it was a great one. And for the record, I did not ask anyone to leave their national team in order to join the CLA. If you view my words as being in stone or think I implied something, then you are misreading and should ask questions via pm. If you have a pm from that directly says "In order to join the CLA, player X must quit clan Y", please send it back to me. I did ask an applicant joining LOD to drop a National Team as the leader of that group did not respond for over a week as to their clan's status and the general rule for LOD is that if we're not sure, we'd like you to drop them.

As for the recommendations, LOD will likely incorporate the CLA recommendations into their challenge setups, and the recommendations (whatever they may be) will hopefully be used by the CC admins to move CC and clans forward.

Do you think it would possible for you to maintain the same opinion for at least a day or so? Your tone has been very condescending throughout this discussion and I'm not sure if I can appreciate that you're having little jabs at our conduct (and of course blatantly deny that you did in your next post).

You're not the only clan in the past 2 months to have a challenge canceled or not continued. I view cancellations as a problem, and all of them happened for different reasons. While you may view my words as pot shots, the truth is that it's important to stand up for what you believe in and I respect TSM for standing their ground as well as the methodology of thinking going into your limitations. I also love the passion that your group has for the game. My word choice isn't always the best and I will use "a clan" instead of "your clan" from now one.

I'm not sure if anyone would consider your clan the "Best All-Around Clan" if there are maps you haven't or can't play.

Please be so kind as to explain how I've completely misunderstood this statement and how being the best 'all-around' (sic) clan is relevant to 'the future of clans on CC'.

If you were in the CLA and read the posts there, there are discussions trying to answer "What is the purpose of Clan Wars?" It's an open question to all and the most common thought so far is "Best All-Around Clan". People asking for a point system, league, and/or ladder would suggest to prove that you're "better than other clans" and my question is "better how and in what way?"

So that everyone is aware, there are threads in the CLA about limitations by individual setting:

Eg. There is one thread for Speed, one thread for Freestyle, one thread for Flat Rate, one thread for Leagues, one thread for Ladders, one thread for points systems........etc. (There are a lot of threads )

[andre the giant]

I'm a firm believer that we need to have some sort of guidelines regarding the number of games in clan challenges, otherwise, when we rank clans, we are comparing apples to oranges to carrots to hammers. For instance, If your clan challenges some other team to a feudal fog game clan war, lets say you play 50 games. Then a winner is announced. Does that win mean more or less than a clan war that was 5 games of doodle earth? At the least, we need to have some sort of minimum number of games that constitute a clan war. I like the idea of having maybe three levels... (20/40/80games?) so that smaller clans can participate. It should be pretty easy to calculate points on the clan ladder based on what level clan war is fought.

When it comes to settings and maps, I am in favor of allowing the clans to decide based on the preferences of their members, and their opponents. If the Warlords don't like your settings, we will probably avoid playing you. That is where negotiation comes in. Each side concedes a bit, and eventually, you end up with a nice bloody war. Its pretty simple really...

[firstholliday]

hehe this is fun...

with a zillion clans and a thousend people how will you make settings that everybody agrees on?
Or will the 8,9 clans in there now be responsable for this?


btw what are the thoughts on unl forts? No 'good' player plays a lot of unl and holds a high rank.

1st

[firstholliday]

also i see lod is nr 3 on the list???

lol

[hwhrhett]

also i see lod is nr 3 on the list???

lol

come on guys, we are trying here, if you want to be a part of the discussion, please join us in discussing it, rather than being condescending and not trying to have an open mind about it. we are not trying to limit ANYTHING. we are only trying to make things a lil more uniform, so that this ladder can work. this ladder is based off of marval's clan challenge results, along with the lodedi tournament results(had to be added so that there would be enough information to compile). come and join us, and help make this what you want it to be.

me myself, im all against any type of limits or restrictions. but everybody already knows that. i dont think there is anybody in there saying "we should limit ourselves". that would be silly. lets all get along and help make a clan system that actually works for ranking clans and hosting clan leagues and tourneys. ill understand if yall dont want to. but is it neccessary to keep mocking those of us that do, based on wild uninformed assumptions.

[jpcloet]

btw what are the thoughts on unl forts? No 'good' player plays a lot of unl and holds a high rank.

Look hard enough and I'm sure you'll find a few, maybe even more than you think.

[BENJIKAT IS DEAD]

btw what are the thoughts on unl forts? No 'good' player plays a lot of unl and holds a high rank.

Look hard enough and I'm sure you'll find a few, maybe even more than you think.

for example - THOTA chose to use a large amount of unlimited forts in their home games against the regulators


any how - pls can we put all the cynicism to one side (at least temporarily) - all that this CLA is about is having a talking shop so we can help CC thrash out a potential way forward for their clan structure. I can see how the Monkis have been rubbed up the wrong way, but interweb semantics can do that all too easily sometimes.

[David_Wain]

ha... less than the regulators used FOG though I personally think unlimited requires alot of skill & it's alot of peoples weaknesses. I do prefer chained though

[hulmey]

ha... less than the regulators used FOG though I personally think unlimited requires alot of skill & it's alot of peoples weaknesses. I do prefer chained though

the team that goes first with unlimited has a huge advantage as well, more so than if it was chained!

[bigboybrent]

ha... less than the regulators used FOG though I personally think unlimited requires alot of skill & it's alot of peoples weaknesses. I do prefer chained though

the team that goes first with unlimited has a huge advantage as well, more so than if it was chained!

I'd have to agree with David. However, other factors come into play such as the initial drop. Advantage or not, we all have been cursed by the dice god's so that appearance of an advantage can disappear very quickly. I personally prefer unlimited.

[Seulessliathan]

some but not all monkis believe CLA is a good idea and can do a lot for further clan challenges, but atm we can´t join, Ruben didn´t take a decision yet. The fact that monki forum disappeared doesn´t make the discussion easier. Please be patiented while we try to find a way all monkis are happy with.

[jpcloet]

some but not all monkis believe CLA is a good idea and can do a lot for further clan challenges, but atm we can´t join, Ruben didn´t take a decision yet. The fact that monki forum disappeared doesn´t make the discussion easier. Please be patiented while we try to find a way all monkis are happy with.

One of the threads in the CLA talks about player issues. LOD has run into this situation in the past only a couple of times. In that case, the player left to start his own clan which still exists but is no longer active as he abandoned them as well. Clan stability can be a challenge and could be future topic within the CLA as a stable clan state within CC would help with growth.

[Seulessliathan]

i´m not sure if it makes sense to discuss a rule everybody has to accept before he can join this group.^^ But we can give you our 2cents in this thread, so it´s ok. What about posting in this thread some decisions CLA made, so everybody can think about?

[jpcloet]

i´m not sure if it makes sense to discuss a rule everybody has to accept before he can join this group.^^ But we can give you our 2cents in this thread, so it´s ok. What about posting in this thread some decisions CLA made, so everybody can think about?

The only decisions so far are:

1. Entrance rules into CLA, which continue to be discussed and tweaked. In the initial setup, several founding members made it clear that they don't want this to be an exclusive group and I agreed. We want many of the clan leaders to join to get some common alignment where we can. However, there used to be a group of all the leaders from all clans and usergroups and it had no real purpose and faded away, so some criteria had to be created.

That's pretty much it other than my decision as to who the founding 7 member clans should be.

A group of established clans joining together in a functional group to discuss clan matters in order to advance clans within the context of the CC site. Here we will discuss clan issues around challenges, tournaments, player management etc.

The purpose was worded in such a way that is was a broad spectrum of items. There are many items being discussed and in no way should the above purpose imply that we are creating rules. It has been suggested that some of our ideas and recommendations (when they do happen) could be used by the site admins if there is a strongly aligned voice. The PR as mentioned earlier is poor as I wanted to slowly add members and do it in a steady and controlled manner, with much of the recruiting of clans done privately. I now have members requesting to join to see what the TSM's excitement/concerns are all about. I should be thanking TSM for raising the awareness of others.

[jpcloet]

Based on some pm questions, I've updated the Q&A on page 1 as well as tried to explain how ELO works a little more.

[LFAW]

++The Legion++ wants in on the CLA, myself and Ralphctpc will represent us.

[jpcloet]

I will review your membership right away.

Did you just decide to continue a challenge with U18? I think I need to update the ladder if that's the case.