XML Starting Positions

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Re: XML ?? for Starting Positions

Postby the.killing.44 on Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:58 am

I think so, if I'm understanding what you mean correctly. It would only be semi-random, however.

Basically, you'd have to set a pair of positions, one from the two groups. Ex:

Code: Select all
<positions>
   <position>
      <territory>Accuser A</territory>
      <territory>Landowner A</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Accuser B</territory>
      <territory>Landowner B</territory>
   </position>



And so on and so forth. I'm pretty sure that's as random as you can get it, because you have to specify each pair to be handed out.
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Re: XML ?? for Starting Positions

Postby Evil DIMwit on Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:18 pm

What I proposed was something like

Code: Select all
<!-- Territories -->
<territory>
   <name>William Shaw</name>
   ...
   <neutral>3</neutral>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>Joseph Buxton</name>
   ...
   <neutral>3</neutral>
</territory>
<!-- ...and so forth for every green SP-->

<!-- Start positions -->
<positions>
   <position>
      <territory>William Shaw<territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Joseph Buxton</territory>
   </position>
   <!-- ...and so forth for every green SP-->


But only for the green starting positions. The bonus starting positions are the only other territories left non-neutral, but they're not designated as starting positions. What would happen (if I understand correctly) is that the Starting Positions tag overrides the initial neutral coding of the green territories, so those are divided evenly, with the remainder being turned neutral. Then the eight remaining, bonus, starting positions are all that's left, and those get divided evenly, with any remainder becoming neutral.

You could switch it around and make the eight bonus SPs coded and the eight green positions uncoded. There's not much difference except that in 2-player game for the coded octet each player gets 4, and for the uncoded octet the "neutral player" gets taken into account, so each actual player gets 2.
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Re: XML ?? for Starting Positions

Postby oaktown on Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:38 pm

maybe I'm not reading you right, but it sound like you want each players to have an equal number of territories from group A (Accused/accusers) and an equal number from group L (Landowners) - and for every A that a player has he also has a L. And you want them to be assigned at random. And i assume you want it to work for 2-8 players. That's a lot to ask from a very limited XML feature.

44's solution of coding pairs is close and will work for some game sizes. In a five player game (for example) each player will get one pair, but then I believe that the remaining six territories will be distributed randomly, each player receiving one extra territory. In a two or three player game each player would also get one odd, unpaired territory. And the A-L pairs would be pre-set, not random as you wish.

Another imperfect solution would be to code each A territory as a start, so you have eight starts of one territory each. Those eight would be distributed first, so everybody will get at least one A. The A's that are left over would be thrown into the mix with the L's, which would also be distributed at random. Unlike 44's idea the territories are distributed randomly, but there is a chance that somebody won't get an L territory. (Like 44's solution it will work perfectly for 4, 6, 7, and 8 player games, but everything else will be off.)

Evil DIMwit's idea of coding territories both neutral and as starting positions would eliminate this problem in that the left-over coded territories would go neutral, not back into the random mix, but I'm skeptical that the site will recognize both... I'd call in yeti before trying that out, but if it works it is the way to go.
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Re: XML ?? for Starting Positions

Postby yeti_c on Sun Nov 29, 2009 1:03 pm

Consult the City Mogul XML for starting positions with more than 1 item.

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Re: XML ?? for Starting Positions

Postby the.killing.44 on Sun Nov 29, 2009 1:59 pm

yeti_c wrote:Consult the City Mogul XML for starting positions with more than 1 item.

C.

Heh? I already posted that.

What's the answer?
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Re: XML ?? for Starting Positions

Postby thenobodies80 on Sun Nov 29, 2009 2:51 pm

If you want them totally random but evenly splitted by group among the players, is not possible because each region can't be used for more than one single SP.
With the 44 system you will have the two groups splitted equally and i think that adding the underlying neutrals you can use them with all game size.
But they are NOT random.
The player with Accuser A will have always Landowner A, the player with Accuser B will have always Landowner B, etc etc...

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Re: XML ?? for Starting Positions

Postby the.killing.44 on Sun Nov 29, 2009 2:55 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:If you want them totally random but evenly splitted by group among the players, is not possible because each region can't be used for more than one single SP.
With the 44 system you will have the two groups splitted equally and i think that adding the underlying neutrals you can use them with all game size.
But they are NOT random.
The player with Accuser A will have always Landowner A, the player with Accuser B will have always Landowner B, etc etc...

Right. So you probably want to put all your options into random.org and have pairs come out, so Accuser A is with Landowner D, A B with L A, etc., if you choose this.
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Re: XML ?? for Starting Positions

Postby yeti_c on Sun Nov 29, 2009 2:59 pm

the.killing.44 wrote:
thenobodies80 wrote:If you want them totally random but evenly splitted by group among the players, is not possible because each region can't be used for more than one single SP.
With the 44 system you will have the two groups splitted equally and i think that adding the underlying neutrals you can use them with all game size.
But they are NOT random.
The player with Accuser A will have always Landowner A, the player with Accuser B will have always Landowner B, etc etc...

Right. So you probably want to put all your options into random.org and have pairs come out, so Accuser A is with Landowner D, A B with L A, etc., if you choose this.


Either that - or balance the pairs fairly depending on the map.

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Re: XML ?? for Starting Positions

Postby Evil DIMwit on Sun Nov 29, 2009 3:57 pm

So, is there a problem with my scheme, XML-wise?

Also, slightly related question while we're here -- if you've coded an initial troop number for a starting position, how is that handled in a manual deployment game? Can you redistribute those troops, or are they locked in place? How about if you haven't coded an initial troop number?
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Re: XML ?? for Starting Positions

Postby cairnswk on Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:41 pm

Guys, thank you so much for this input....i am watching the discussion. :)
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Re: XML ?? for Starting Positions

Postby the.killing.44 on Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:47 pm

Evil DIMwit wrote:So, is there a problem with my scheme, XML-wise?

Yeah, I don't think you can code a starting position with neutral value.
Evil DIMwit wrote:Also, slightly related question while we're here -- if you've coded an initial troop number for a starting position, how is that handled in a manual deployment game? Can you redistribute those troops, or are they locked in place? How about if you haven't coded an initial troop number?

Have you ever played City Mogul manual? You can't drop armies on a starting position that has a starting value.
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Re: XML ?? for Starting Positions

Postby Evil DIMwit on Sun Nov 29, 2009 6:02 pm

the.killing.44 wrote:
Evil DIMwit wrote:So, is there a problem with my scheme, XML-wise?

Yeah, I don't think you can code a starting position with neutral value.

I think you can. Isn't that what they do in Third Crusade?

the.killing.44 wrote:
Evil DIMwit wrote:Also, slightly related question while we're here -- if you've coded an initial troop number for a starting position, how is that handled in a manual deployment game? Can you redistribute those troops, or are they locked in place? How about if you haven't coded an initial troop number?

Have you ever played City Mogul manual? You can't drop armies on a starting position that has a starting value.

Never have. It's good to know, though.
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Re: XML ?? for Starting Positions

Postby MrBenn on Sun Nov 29, 2009 6:36 pm

To answer some of the questions that have been raised:
Yes, territories can be coded start positions, and as neutral. The start position takes precedence, and so if not allocated with other starts will revert to neutral. The number of armies (player or neutral) doesn't have to be the same in the coding for the starting position/neutral tags.
In manual deployment games, coded starting positions will start with the number of armies specified in the code. I thought you could drop more armies on them during the deployment phase though...

Oh, I'll merge this with the other XML Start Positions Topic ;-)
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Re: XML ?? for Starting Positions

Postby yeti_c on Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:58 am

the.killing.44 wrote:
Evil DIMwit wrote:Also, slightly related question while we're here -- if you've coded an initial troop number for a starting position, how is that handled in a manual deployment game? Can you redistribute those troops, or are they locked in place? How about if you haven't coded an initial troop number?

Have you ever played City Mogul manual? You can't drop armies on a starting position that has a starting value.


Wait a minute... if that were the case then City Mogul would be unplayable in manual - because you only get starting positions...

I agree with Benny here - although I haven't witnessed it.

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Re: XML ?? for Starting Positions

Postby thenobodies80 on Wed Dec 02, 2009 6:17 am

yeti_c wrote:
the.killing.44 wrote:
Evil DIMwit wrote:Also, slightly related question while we're here -- if you've coded an initial troop number for a starting position, how is that handled in a manual deployment game? Can you redistribute those troops, or are they locked in place? How about if you haven't coded an initial troop number?

Have you ever played City Mogul manual? You can't drop armies on a starting position that has a starting value.


Wait a minute... if that were the case then City Mogul would be unplayable in manual - because you only get starting positions...

I agree with Benny here - although I haven't witnessed it.

C.


Or playable but it should not count for the manual medal

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