Free to Play Speed Games on Classic Map

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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby chapcrap on Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:57 pm

natty dread wrote:
Woodruff wrote:For folks like me, I think this would be a negative from a money-making standpoint because, as chapcrap poitns out, speed games are one of the biggest things that people pay for.


Are they really? I don't think so.

I think most people get premium so they can get to play more than 4 games at once. Things like invites, starting private games, etc. are perks, but speed games? They're hardly most people's primary motivation for paying money - otherwise there'd be more speedgames being played. The thing is, anyone can go to live chat and ask for people to play RT. Sure, it's not a "real" speedgame, but for most freemiums it doesn't make much difference I wager.

Restricting the speed games to a certain games played cap would encourage multis. And despite the claims of the C&A team, there are ways of creating multis that have virtually no way of getting caught, if you don't make any noise about yourself.

Restricting the speed games to only the classic map would be stupid as well - ok, great, people who like the classic map get to play the classic map against other people who like the classic map. Then what? The freemiums can still go and play their RT games on other maps. What's the point of such a restriction? Oh no, the Entertainment Team can't host their Special little Speed Events anymore. Well tough shit, the Entertainment Team is just going to have to come up with some better Entertainment. Which is more important here, getting more satisfied customers, or keeping the ET happy?

The fact is, a lot (if not most) of the NR:s who quit the site without finishing their first game(s) do it because they thought they'd get to play realtime games here. And when they find out they have to wait 24h for their next turn they lose interest. With free speedgames, there'd be a rush of new members, the retention rate would very likely improve significantly, and that is what CC needs right now. I'm pretty sure those people would also buy premium, and if they wouldn't, well, then the site should just come up with new perks for the premium members, make premium membership more attractive.

Sadly, this is all moot, since as we all know the sugs forum is the graveyard of ideas...

I think that people pay initially for more games and for speed games. And probably speed games more than anything. When I first bought premium that was my reason. Now, I hardly play speed games, because I just get enough casual games going that I pretty much always have a turn to take when I log on. But, yes, I think speed games is the reason most become premium.
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby agentcom on Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:53 pm

chapcrap wrote:
natty dread wrote:
Woodruff wrote:For folks like me, I think this would be a negative from a money-making standpoint because, as chapcrap poitns out, speed games are one of the biggest things that people pay for.


Are they really? I don't think so.

I think most people get premium so they can get to play more than 4 games at once. Things like invites, starting private games, etc. are perks, but speed games? They're hardly most people's primary motivation for paying money - otherwise there'd be more speedgames being played. The thing is, anyone can go to live chat and ask for people to play RT. Sure, it's not a "real" speedgame, but for most freemiums it doesn't make much difference I wager.

Restricting the speed games to a certain games played cap would encourage multis. And despite the claims of the C&A team, there are ways of creating multis that have virtually no way of getting caught, if you don't make any noise about yourself.

Restricting the speed games to only the classic map would be stupid as well - ok, great, people who like the classic map get to play the classic map against other people who like the classic map. Then what? The freemiums can still go and play their RT games on other maps. What's the point of such a restriction? Oh no, the Entertainment Team can't host their Special little Speed Events anymore. Well tough shit, the Entertainment Team is just going to have to come up with some better Entertainment. Which is more important here, getting more satisfied customers, or keeping the ET happy?

The fact is, a lot (if not most) of the NR:s who quit the site without finishing their first game(s) do it because they thought they'd get to play realtime games here. And when they find out they have to wait 24h for their next turn they lose interest. With free speedgames, there'd be a rush of new members, the retention rate would very likely improve significantly, and that is what CC needs right now. I'm pretty sure those people would also buy premium, and if they wouldn't, well, then the site should just come up with new perks for the premium members, make premium membership more attractive.

Sadly, this is all moot, since as we all know the sugs forum is the graveyard of ideas...

I think that people pay initially for more games and for speed games. And probably speed games more than anything. When I first bought premium that was my reason. Now, I hardly play speed games, because I just get enough casual games going that I pretty much always have a turn to take when I log on. But, yes, I think speed games is the reason most become premium.


Get out of my head, chap.

As to what others have said: Agree that there shouldn't be a limit on total games just concurrent games. As for that issue and the issue of settings, now I think we're fine tuning this idea. I don't see a whole lot of dissent and I see a whole lot of agreement.

Very cool suggestion that benefits the users and the site. Well done.
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby MegaProphet on Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:05 am

natty dread wrote:
Woodruff wrote:For folks like me, I think this would be a negative from a money-making standpoint because, as chapcrap poitns out, speed games are one of the biggest things that people pay for.


Are they really? I don't think so.

I think most people get premium so they can get to play more than 4 games at once. Things like invites, starting private games, etc. are perks, but speed games? They're hardly most people's primary motivation for paying money - otherwise there'd be more speedgames being played. The thing is, anyone can go to live chat and ask for people to play RT. Sure, it's not a "real" speedgame, but for most freemiums it doesn't make much difference I wager.

Restricting the speed games to a certain games played cap would encourage multis. And despite the claims of the C&A team, there are ways of creating multis that have virtually no way of getting caught, if you don't make any noise about yourself.

Restricting the speed games to only the classic map would be stupid as well - ok, great, people who like the classic map get to play the classic map against other people who like the classic map. Then what? The freemiums can still go and play their RT games on other maps. What's the point of such a restriction? Oh no, the Entertainment Team can't host their Special little Speed Events anymore. Well tough shit, the Entertainment Team is just going to have to come up with some better Entertainment. Which is more important here, getting more satisfied customers, or keeping the ET happy?

The fact is, a lot (if not most) of the NR:s who quit the site without finishing their first game(s) do it because they thought they'd get to play realtime games here. And when they find out they have to wait 24h for their next turn they lose interest. With free speedgames, there'd be a rush of new members, the retention rate would very likely improve significantly, and that is what CC needs right now. I'm pretty sure those people would also buy premium, and if they wouldn't, well, then the site should just come up with new perks for the premium members, make premium membership more attractive.

Sadly, this is all moot, since as we all know the sugs forum is the graveyard of ideas...

I think the classic map would be enough to keep the new players around. Keeping things simple is a better way to introduce new users.
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby natty dread on Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:04 pm

chapcrap wrote:I think that people pay initially for more games and for speed games. And probably speed games more than anything.


Have you conducted a survey or something?

In any case it's useless to speculate the reasons why people currently buy premium (even if we had evidence) because even if people can play 1 free speed game at a time, there'd still be other reasons for people to buy premium. And new incentives could be devised - things like the new battle royale thing.

Speed games should be the main "attraction" for this site, not a "perk" that you get for paying. Because that's what most people who wander to the site are looking for - a quick speed game to try out the site. A LOT of people quit before finishing their first game(s) because they can't play speed games.

CC needs to update its business model. The current one isn't working.
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby cooldeals on Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:16 pm

I know there are many different ideas as to how far this could go....should all speed games be free?.....shouldn't more settings be free?....etc. I guess part of my idea is that if we come up with a simple idea to start from, more could be added as CC sees success from it, but our idea is limited enough CC might actually do it.
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby agentcom on Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:10 pm

cooldeals wrote:I know there are many different ideas as to how far this could go....should all speed games be free?.....shouldn't more settings be free?....etc. I guess part of my idea is that if we come up with a simple idea to start from, more could be added as CC sees success from it, but our idea is limited enough CC might actually do it.


Definitely not all. I think you were on the right track with your original post:

All Games on this tab will be Speed Games [on Classic map] with basic settings (Esc, Sunny, Automatic Deployment, 5 min turns, 6 players, standard).
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby Hornet95 on Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:23 pm

Wonder if the powers-that-be could try this for one or three months, see if it improves business/sign-ups, and then bring it down if it does not improve business?
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby cooldeals on Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:09 pm

agentcom wrote:
cooldeals wrote:I know there are many different ideas as to how far this could go....should all speed games be free?.....shouldn't more settings be free?....etc. I guess part of my idea is that if we come up with a simple idea to start from, more could be added as CC sees success from it, but our idea is limited enough CC might actually do it.


Definitely not all. I think you were on the right track with your original post:

All Games on this tab will be Speed Games [on Classic map] with basic settings (Esc, Sunny, Automatic Deployment, 5 min turns, 6 players, standard).


I don't think all speed games should be free. I was just pointing out that some people have said that in the thread, but it makes more sense to do a limited idea like this and then people can submit those ideas as a separate suggestion if they feel like it if we get this implemented.
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby cooldeals on Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:12 pm

Hornet95 wrote:Wonder if the powers-that-be could try this for one or three months, see if it improves business/sign-ups, and then bring it down if it does not improve business?


I don't know who the powers that be are, but I think it'd be a great idea to test it. If I'm wrong, then take it down. I'd actually recommend this site to friends again if I knew they could come to something like this. They all get bored and quit and then ask me how I can stand playing 2 month long risk games before they even play their 2nd turn. (sometimes their first turn)
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby SaviorShot on Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:31 pm

Put a monthly cap on it not an overall cap bc they would just create multi accounts to get more speed games
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby agentcom on Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:27 am

SaviorShot wrote:Put a monthly cap on it not an overall cap bc they would just create multi accounts to get more speed games


I don't think you need an absolute cap. That's what I was saying earlier. Have this site be a competitor to the free stuff on Pogo, but differentiate on what you pay for. Anyone can go to Pogo and play for free as much as they want, anyone could come here and do the same. At least for simple settings. But here the draw is the maps and settings. I think that's an excellent inducement to buy stuff.

Under the model, you could play basic style speed for free, but you wouldn't get all the maps. But you know about the maps because you also have your 4 casual games going. Meanwhile, you get to see what it's like to play all the time (and how addicting it is), so you want more than those 4 casual games. It would kind of feed off itself.

I REALLY LIKE THIS IDEA. I have no personal stake in it, it just seems like it's a good business model that would benefit the site and the coffers. And more money in the coffers could mean a better site (so I guess it could indirectly benefit me). Or it means more money in lack's pocket, which is his right to do.

Cooldeals, you should try to get a commission on this idea if it ever goes through. :)
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby blakebowling on Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:55 pm

Stickied.
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby agentcom on Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:47 pm

Cool
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby cooldeals on Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:54 am

agentcom wrote:
SaviorShot wrote:Put a monthly cap on it not an overall cap bc they would just create multi accounts to get more speed games


I don't think you need an absolute cap. That's what I was saying earlier. Have this site be a competitor to the free stuff on Pogo, but differentiate on what you pay for. Anyone can go to Pogo and play for free as much as they want, anyone could come here and do the same. At least for simple settings. But here the draw is the maps and settings. I think that's an excellent inducement to buy stuff.

Under the model, you could play basic style speed for free, but you wouldn't get all the maps. But you know about the maps because you also have your 4 casual games going. Meanwhile, you get to see what it's like to play all the time (and how addicting it is), so you want more than those 4 casual games. It would kind of feed off itself.

I REALLY LIKE THIS IDEA. I have no personal stake in it, it just seems like it's a good business model that would benefit the site and the coffers. And more money in the coffers could mean a better site (so I guess it could indirectly benefit me). Or it means more money in lack's pocket, which is his right to do.

Cooldeals, you should try to get a commission on this idea if it ever goes through. :)


Words after my own heart right here on competing with Pogo and why people pay for premium. I think my real commission would be in fun when there is increased activity from the site.
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby nicestash on Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:19 pm

Great idea! I ended up buying premium because I got a taste of freestyle when CC gave a couple games over the holidays. Without that, I would still be freemium. I have a lot of friends that love risk but have quit because they don't have the patience/time to come online every day to take 1 turn.
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby cooldeals on Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:34 am

I was able to get into Whac-A-Mod Speed games right after I started. Otherwise, I wouldn't be Premium.
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby nicestash on Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:58 am

Can we put this to a vote? It seems to have widespread support
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby agentcom on Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:31 pm

To be honest, I'm not sure if a vote is appropriate in this situation. This suggestion seems like something that should be left up the the owner of the website as it seems to be a suggestion about how to best make the site money and hook users. Other suggestions that get voted on are more about current players and what their preferences are for the site. I don't see how much value anyone would get out of seeing voting results here.
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby nicestash on Sat Aug 04, 2012 7:11 pm

How do we get lack to look at this?
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby *Pixar* on Sat Aug 04, 2012 7:51 pm

+1 nice job CD thats my boy :)
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby agentcom on Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:26 am

nicestash wrote:How do we get lack to look at this?


Out of all the suggestions that get posted, a few move to Sticky, which is where this one is at right now. If there continues to be a lot of support, or well, for whatever reason, it will get moved to Submitted. At that point, it is up to Lack and Lack alone whether to implement it.

OK, there's a lot of the above that is oversimplification, but overall that's how it works. I'm currently working on some organization of older suggestions, but I'd be happy to move this to Submitted when I get to this one. With the caveat that I'm a volunteer and only have a limited amount of time to work on the forum, I don't mind at all if anyone calls me out on this statement in a couple months, if I haven't done so or at least explained why not. As I've said before, I think that this suggestion is great for the site and increases our competitiveness with similar sites. So I have no problem trying to find out if/when/why this will/won't happen.
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby IditarodGuy on Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:33 am

cooldeals wrote:
Hornet95 wrote:Quick point of information: Give freemies access to 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5-minute classic
-OR- 5 minute only?

I'd be in favor of 5-minute only. 1, 2, 3 and 4 gives away too much.

Also, I wonder if there would be a way to limit it on freemiums to 10, 25, 50, or 100 speed games per month?


To be honest, I don't think 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 makes a difference in whether people will pay or not. I'd actually say only 3-5 because 1-2 minute turn times are actually a disadvantage to someone new to the site. (I've added this info into my OP. Thanks for your comment).

Limiting freemiums on total speed games, might not be a bad idea, but I don't think it should be too restrictive. I can go to other sites and get the same experience I am describing here for free with no limit on games played. People on that site pay for even more minute feature upgrades than playing speed on all the amazing maps on CC.


Disable Newbies to play speed games just like other options are disabled.
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby cryinlion on Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:46 pm

should we alllow premium members play with the freemiums in speed games?
i think not cuz some players may farm them
even though i would like to play with my freemium friends in speed game instead of just rts
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give me premium or perish
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby thehippo8 on Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:14 am

I see that this thread has gone quiet. Not sure what else there is to say but I support the idea wholeheartedly.
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby MegaProphet on Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:23 pm

cryinlion wrote:should we alllow premium members play with the freemiums in speed games?
i think not cuz some players may farm them
even though i would like to play with my freemium friends in speed game instead of just rts

Just because someone is premium does not mean they're better than a freemium player. Also one of the merits of this suggestion is it prevents farming because there is less of a learning curve playing the Classic map with standard settings.
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